[CTRL] Fritz Springmeier Interview

[Hilary A. Thomas]

 -Caveat Lector-

CKLN-FM Mind Control Series -- Part 21


Fritz Springmeier Interview

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CKLN fm 88.1
International Connection
Ryerson Polytechnical University
Toronto, Canada

Wayne Morris:
Good morning, welcome to the International Connection. This is show #35 in
the radio series on Mind Control and over the next few shows we are going
to be talking to Fritz Springmeier and Cisco Wheeler, co-authors of the
"Illuminati Formula Used to Create an Undetectable Total Mind Control
Slave" and "Deeper Insights", books about trauma based conditioning mind
control. Fritz is a researcher about the Illuminati and minister to mind
control victims. Cisco Wheeler says she is from a generational Illuminati
family and that trauma-based mind control was perpetrated against her from
birth. We will hear the interview with Cisco in a couple of weeks, and
today we are going to hear an interview with Fritz Springmeier. Fritz talks
about the Illuminati families and how they have used mind control to
consolidate their power throughout history. You are listening to CKLN 88.1
FM.
I am speaking with Fritz Springmeier author, lecturer and minister to mind
control survivors. Welcome to the show Fritz.
Fritz Springmeier:
Thank you and hello to all you listeners out there in radioland. I
encourage you to participate with our program today because we are going to
be speaking about some important things that affect your life and will
affect the lives of your grandchildren.
Wayne Morris:
I would like to start off with asking you how you first came across the
information about government mind control.
Fritz Springmeier:
Government mind control overlaps with many other things - it overlaps with
a higher government and a secret world government called the Illuminati. As
I investigated the Illuminati I had to also learn about their front that
they operate. They hide behind the veil of National Security. They use our
patriotism against us and make us think that for our own interest, for our
own security of our own nations, that we have to subject ourselves to all
the secrecy that they impose upon us.
Wayne Morris:
Did you come across all the information about mind control through your
research into the Illuminati, or vice versa?
Fritz Springmeier:
Yes, through the Illuminati. That's not to say that I hadn't been watching
the government too, but a lot of what we see out front is just that - it's
a front and if we really want to understand what's going on, we have to
look behind that front.
Wayne Morris:
Maybe you could explain to our listeners, to your understanding, who are
the Illuminati?
Fritz Springmeier:
The Illuminati are the movers and shakers of the world. They are an elite
group of bloodlines - I call these tribes or families - there are 13 major
bloodlines. They are what are called "generational satanists". That means
that they have practised their secret witchcraft for many centuries and
they have passed their religion down from one generation to the next. They
lead double lives. They have one life that the world sees and then they
have a hidden life that the world doesn't see. There have been very few
people that have been able to break through the secrecy. They have taken
secrecy to a fine art that I would never have believed that anyone could
achieve until I started getting into this, and there have been very few
people over the years that have broken through that secrecy at all. There
was a man named John Robison who wrote proofs of a conspiracy against all
the religions and governments in Europe carried on in the secret meetings
of the Freemasons, the Illuminati and reading societies. That came out in
1798 and the Bavarian government, by raiding several safe houses of the
Illuminati, captured original Illuminati documents back at that time period
which were bound and sent out to all the governments entitled: "Die
Originalschriften des Illuminatens Ordens" (sp?) as the German title the
Bavarian government gave it.
But in modern times there have been very few people that have been able to
talk about the Illuminati as it exists today, and that's been my job. To
bring to the world who these people are, what their traditions are, what
they are doing, everything about them. The reason I am giving a longer
version here to your question is that when someone asks who or what are the
Illuminati, they do not think like we do. People often times interpret
things around them in terms of how they themselves think or their own world
view. If you want to understand the Illuminati, you have to understand that
these people do not think like you or I.
In just one area alone, that is a large percentage of these people are
programmed multiple personalities and just that in itself creates a whole
different thinking pattern from those of us who are not multiple.
Wayne Morris:
When you say the Illuminati, is this the same group that is documented that
Adam Weishaupt had started back in 1776 in Bavaria? Is this the same group?

Fritz Springmeier:
It's the same group. He actually didn't start the organization, it goes way
back. These are oligarchical families that are extremely powerful and if
you go back in history and ask yourself the question, "when did the elite,
powerful, oligarchical families ever give up their power?" You can't find
any point in history. These are the families that - some of these
bloodlines go clear back to Nimrod. The Rothschild secret genealogy that
they have secretly written down through the centuries, traces their
genealogy back to Nimrod. These people were the ones that controlled the
mystery religions. There was a supreme council that sat over all of these
mystery religions of the ancient world. They were an extremely powerful
priesthood, and they chose to go underground for many years and continue
working behind the scenes. But they never left.
At the end of WWII there was a committee that was sent out throughout
Europe to do a study of all of the churches that had been destroyed by the
war, and they discovered that in most of these Christian churches (80%)
they found that where the Christian alter had been, when these churches had
been destroyed, underneath these alters were pagan alters that had been
uncovered. So what you have is that a lot of these cathedrals were built on
lay lines that were very powerful occult spiritual points and on after
hours these churches were used for what we would call satanic rituals. So
this has been going on secretly for many centuries.
Wayne Morris:
And you are saying that the Illuminati are responsible for infiltrating
these churches?
Fritz Springmeier:
These are our movers and shakers, very powerful bloodlines. For instance,
one of these bloodlines includes all of your royal families of Europe. They
are the people that have been in control. If you look at a lot of these
nation states, you will notice that at the head of their church are their
kings and queens.
Wayne Morris:
You mentioned there are 13 families in the generations of the Illuminati
families? Can you name them?
Fritz Springmeier:
I came out with a book that was specifically designed to go family by
family and discuss them. The top 13 bloodlines are the Astors, Bundy,
Collins, Dupont, Freeman, Kennedy, Leigh, Onassis, Rockefellers,
Rothschild, Russell ... then there is a 13th bloodline which is the
Merovingian bloodline. I just simple call it the 13th and then there is the
Van Dine Illuminati bloodline. The 13th bloodline, the Merovingian, is
extremely important. It includes the royal families of Europe. In my Volume
I book which covers the Top Thirteen Illuminati Bloodlines, that's the
title to it, I don't go into the Merovingian bloodline so much because
there came out a trilogy of books, "The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail" and
two other books by their authors - Baigent, Leigh and Lincoln - which is so
good in discussing this bloodline that wasn't any real reason for me to go
into it.
For instance Prince Charles would be part of that. If you look at Prince
Charles, you will notice in his genealogy he is related to our Presidents
Washington, Jefferson, Madison, both of the Harrisons, Tyler, Taylor,
George Bush. Bush's vice president, Dan Quayle, was also related to the
royal family. Prince Charles is also related to Mrs. Woodrow Wilson. Here
in the USA the concept is that we have all of these individuals who have
been selected to run this country who are unrelated to each other -- and
yet it is quite the contrary.
I have been told when they dedicated George Bush's library in Texas
recently, that President Carter mentioned that he was reading a recently
published book about the Presidents being somehow related to each other.
Wayne Morris:
When did you first realize the existence of the Illuminati? What
information came your way to spark your interest?
Fritz Springmeier:
Everybody has probably heard of Jehovah's Witnesses and how they would go
out and knock on people's doors. I was the opposite. I was a Christian
missionary to bring Jehovah's Witnesses to Christ and I was getting tired
of working with these little Jehovah's Witnesses on the street, and I was
praying to God to be given the power to decapitate the authoritarian
organization that is over these Jehovah's Witnesses. At that point, I got
my prayer answered. I got this confidential information that the heads of
the Watchtower Society were collaborating with the heads of the Latter Day
Saints church. That information totally changed my life. I had bumped into
the Illuminati and their mind control, and I am not to single out the
Watchtower Society and the Mormon church because I found out that their
infiltration and control is pretty well right across the whole spectrum.
Your Christian organizations in general have been infiltrated and
controlled from behind the scenes.
This is when I first bumped into the Illuminati. I had learned about 20
years previous to this what a lot of people are already aware of about the
Council of Foreign Relations, Trilaterial Commission and these types of
groups, the Bilderbergers - but there is a whole other level to things.
When I started getting into reading, researching and trying to help people
that wanted out of the Illuminati to get out - I started getting in at that
level. Then I had to work with the mind control. One thing led to another.
Wayne Morris:
What is the relationship of the groups you just mentioned to the
Illuminati?
Fritz Springmeier:
There are a lot of groups around the world that are making decisions that
are controlling things from behind the scenes and these particular groups
are fronts for the Illuminati. Not fronts in the sense that they have no
actual purpose, they serve a purpose. But there is a hidden level of
control back behind them.
Wayne Morris:
In terms of the Illuminati families and the whole organization itself, what
are their goals? Why have they infiltrated so many of these organizations?
Fritz Springmeier:
Ultimately it's to bring in what people have termed the New World Order
with a man who will hold the world's attention and carry the title The
Antichrist. That's the ultimate goal and I am not trying to wax religious
on people but that's just the simple fact. When you get into deprogramming
people you will see that a lot of the things they have been programmed to
do tie in with a very sophisticated plan to unify the world under the reign
of the Antichrist.
Wayne Morris:
You mentioned that the Illuminati group has used mind control to further
their goals. How did you first come into this? You have been working with
your partner, Cisco Wheeler, who I understand was an Illuminati mind
control victim. How did you first meet and realize what was going on there?

Fritz Springmeier:
She was trying to break free of her mind control. What I stumbled upon was,
at least in my opinion, the greatest slavery involved in all history. You
had four high level Illuminati women who had been teamed together. They had
all become Christians and were trying to break free and had become a
support system for each other. Here I was a researcher of the Illuminati,
there's a lot to try and explain. When you are under the mind control,
there is a lot of programming not to reveal the secrets. It is very
difficult for someone who has been in the Illuminati and received their
standard mind control to not divulge what is going on, so it made it much
easier to work with me that I had already done my homework, and they knew I
was going to understand what they were talking about. They didn't have to
say a lot to communicate certain things, because I was already aware and
that saved them from a lot of the grief from the program kicking in for
having talked too much.
Cisco was part of this group attempting to escape the mind control, and I
got involved in their lives and did what I could to help them. I brought
Cisco out of the Illuminati and in return my learning curve about the
Illuminati was greatly increased because I was given inside information
from these people and a number of other people. Like I say, trying to
understand the secret organization, the secret bloodlines is very
difficult, because one has to stand outside of one's own culture and own
way of thinking and understand these people as they think, and they do not
think like we do. Being able to work with these people who were in the
Illuminati was very valuable.
Wayne Morris:
Because they have used mind control techniques on their own family members
throughout the years?
Fritz Springmeier:
Oh yes. They have been carrying out this mind control on their own people
as well as others for centuries and this has all been a very closely
guarded secret. It's one of the reasons why they have been able to carry
out so much to implement this New World Order without people being able to
figure out there is such a thing as a worldwide unified conspiracy. They
are very skilled in knowing how to bring things about so they appear
natural.
Wayne Morris:
What is the purpose of them using mind control on their own family members?

Fritz Springmeier:
It's really essential. If you are going to participate in the Illuminati
secret life, being a programmed multiple is basic. There are a few in the
Illuminati who aren't programmed multiples, but considering what one has to
participate in. You've got a number of standard rituals involved - St.
Weinbald, St. Agnes, Grand Climax, Walpurgis, Beltane, all your solstices
and equinoxes, Lamas, All Hallow's Eve, High Grand Climax -- all of these
standard rituals. These rituals are very horrific. They involved human
sacrifice. Sacrifices of babies on the High Grand Climax. On various
Sabbats you've got a young female or a male being sacrificed.
This is not something that the normal mind is going to be able to handle.
The mind control and the creation of multiple personalities where you get a
Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde effect - is very crucial to this thing continuing
from generation to generation.
Wayne Morris:
They really use the multiple personalities to facilitate this double life
that they have to lead ... before we get into the techniques that they use
for mind control and the details of that, you mentioned they seem to have a
belief system as well. Could you talk about that?
Fritz Springmeier:
The Illuminati is the continuation of the Mystery Religions and as someone
comes an adept of the Illuminati they have to learn a whole series of
paths. They give the different types of cult knowledge names from the 12
Apostles plus the 13th is called the Holy Grail. These men and women become
very skilled in occult knowledge and I am not sure how much I should go
into that, but I guess what I am trying to say is that they will be trained
in alchemy, in Indian sorcery, Druidism, Enochian magik, Gnosticism,
Hermetic magik, cabbalism, Plato, Sufism - they will know all the different
branches of occult systems.
Wayne Morris:
How do they use that information? Do they incorporate elements of all of
those occult belief systems into their own?
Fritz Springmeier:
It all ties in together. The idea is to amass occult power to yourself and
that's the reason why the Collins family was brought into the top 13
bloodlines. Of course the Merovingian Dynasty had a lot of magik power and
a lot of political power, but the Collins family which was Scottish had
extremely powerful occult powers so it was brought in to be one of the top
occult lines because they were such powerful black magicians. Cabbalism and
the 26 path workings - this is all very important in the work that they do,
and it all ties in with the mind control too. But most of the therapists
out there are secular or approach it from the secular angle, and as they
deal with these mind control victims' programming, they don't touch on the
spiritual aspect. What I am trying to say is that their religious beliefs
can't be separated from the mind control. It is an integral part of that.
Wayne Morris:
Do the Illuminati worship a single being such as Lucifer?
Fritz Springmeier:
You've got different levels in which people operate within the Illuminati.
There is the anarchy level which is your common witchcraft coven, and then
you've got your hierarchy level. On the anarchy level there are thousands
and thousands of covens. I have listed the addresses and names of hundreds
of these in one of my books. These covens are very eclectic. They can have
their own traditions, their own rituals. There is a wide variety of
practices on the anarchy level ... that's what it looks like, is total
anarchy. One doesn't see any connection.
Above that is your hierarchy level where you would have Asmodeus, your
Grand Masters, and Mothers of Darkness, Grandmothers, Granddaughters. If
you are a programmed multiple, you can function at many different levels.
You can have one personality in this coven, and another personality in that
coven and this personality that is in the Masonic Lodge, and another in
this hierarchy ceremony, another participating in another Satanic ritual.
It is very broken up. One of the reasons why it is not easy to answer your
question is basically everything we understood about human behaviour and
how to gauge or judge people is obsolete. The mind control, by creating
programmed multiple personalities, has made all of our ways of judging
people obsolete.
Within the Illuminati the supreme goal is to balance their good deeds with
their bad deeds, they are dualists. They are Luciferians at the highest
level. That's why your greatest philanthropist will very often be your
highest ranking satanist. What they are trying to do with their
philanthropy is self serving when you actually look at it. It's not as
generous as it appears. They are trying to do good deeds and balance those
with their bad deeds, they believe in balance in their religion. It's a
gnostic luciferianism.
Wayne Morris:
I think it might be difficult for the people listening to understand how
somebody could be in public doing good deeds and having a good public
image, and at the same time having this very dark side. I don't know if you
have read the recent Judith Spencer book, "Satan's High Priest". It really
illustrates how that works very clearly. It's a true story about one
particular satanic cult, a high priest, and his rise to that.
Fritz Springmeier:
No I haven't read the book, but I am glad that you brought that out to the
listeners. The way that someone can begin to see the Illuminati is to start
looking at how these people are above the wars and the rest of what we have
to suffer. For instance Pierre Samuel Dupont, during the French Revolution,
all kinds of people around Pierre lost their heads and yet, for some
strange reason, Samuel Dupont managed to "keep his head" when so many
hundreds of people were losing theirs to the guillotine. One person who was
influential in protecting him was Necker's daughter, Madame Germaine
Destael. She ran a cat-house, but anyway she was intimate friends with St.
Simon and St. Simon's disciples were saying at that point in time in the
early 1800's that the target date for the New World Order would be the year
2000.
Another example in history, and I brought this out in the Top 13 Illuminati
Bloodlines book, is when the U.S. went to war right after Pearl Harbor,
within a few days, President Roosevelt came out with a Presidential Decree
which was a semi-secret amendment to the Trading with the Enemy Act, and it
made it legal for certain people to trade with the enemy, if they were
given permission by the American Secretary of the Treasury who at that time
was Hans Morgenthale. I copied the paper work out of the Federal Code of
Regulations. They actually have this Presidential Decree where if he wanted
to exempt somebody, he could allow them to trade with the enemy. Who were
the people that were given that privilege? Rockefellers and Onassis, both
of them Illuminati kingpins. During WWII every ship that was a Greek
merchant ship was sunk during the War by one side or the other. Something
happened and essentially all of the Greek shippers lost their vessels.
There was one Greek shipper, Aristotle Onassis, who didn't lose a single
ship and his vessels sailed through all the war zones. None of the Allies
or the Axis powers ever attacked his ships. For something like that to
happen, you have to have full collaboration at the highest level. You see
these kinds of things going like - Pierre Samuel Dupont, Aristotle Onassis.
Then you are looking at somebody who is Illuminati. They sit above all
these conflicts that they create for all the common people.
Wayne Morris:
This way of bypassing trading with the enemy regulations, how has this been
utilized with regard to WWII or the Bolshevik revolution for that matter?
Fritz Springmeier:
In fact there is an entire book out - I think the title is "Trading with
the Enemy", it came out in 1983 and answers your question. Rockefeller
Standard Oil shipped gas and oil to Spain which then piped it directly to
the Nazis. The Allies knew that Rockefeller was supplying the Germans. That
prolonged the War a couple of year. But you don't hear about this by
establishment historians. There was a lot of important trading during WWII
was necessary to sustain the Nazi war machine.
And you mentioned the Bolshevik revolution. Again you will see there was a
lot of finances sent from, as you are probably well aware and some
listeners are aware, from Kuhn Laib (sp) and Company and some of these
other llumaniti people, and that money was used by the Bolsheviks to
finance the revolution. There were a lot of other agreements made at that
time and things done to help them out. There is a lot going on behind the
scenes.
Wayne Morris:
It seems like they are promoting a strategy of tension where they are
funding both sides and basically profiting from the resultant conflicts
that they are fomenting.
Fritz Springmeier:
One could go on and on. For instance Heinrich Mueller who was head of the
Gestapo - you will notice that at one point he took an old Jewish family
and he himself had to personally carry their suitcases to his own car and
when he got them to the Swiss border, he carried their suitcases. The Swiss
bodyguards by the way, were laughing seeing the head of Gestapo helping an
old Jewish family escape Nazi Germany. When the listener out there starts
seeing these kinds of things, now that you have heard me talk, you can
begin to realize that there is a hidden level out there, way beyond what
the common person is allowed to see at that Illuminati level. These are the
people who are collaborating behind the scenes where you have Catholics and
Protestants and Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormon leaders - you think these
people are at each other's throats - but they are key Illuminati people who
are secretly collaborating.
Wayne Morris:
In talking about the Illuminati, I think a number of people may have
difficulty believing that there is a Unified Liberal Conspiracy to control
the world. Even myself, up until recently, until I started researching into
the mind control, I thought the Illuminati was a fictitious group. In doing
your research about the Illuminati, what were some of your other sources of
information besides the people on the inside that had escaped?
Fritz Springmeier:
My sources, besides my eye witnesses, were interviewing a number of honest
law enforcement and private investigators - in fact some of these people
are still ongoing friends of mine. Over the years I have studied thousands
of books, and thousands of documents which has meant going to special
libraries, such as the Genealogical Library at Salt Lake City. I have
interviewed and worked with many therapists and I have taken off and
travelled to sites where programming is done, where rituals are done, where
crimes have been committed. For instance in Washington state, a number of
hours from here, there is a full scale replica of Stonehenge. Below this
replica of Stonehenge which sits on a hill, is a cemetery a number of feet
away and Illuminati rituals are done at that cemetery. That's an example of
a place that I have gone and looked at for myself.
I need to bring in another concept here that is important to research. It's
not all simply just getting a lot of interviews and the facts because the
raw facts aren't going to do it. When I was in college and I was taking
counselling, the psychologist who was teaching the class gave some
excellent advice. He said, "when you are listening to people or examining a
situation, don't look at the details but look at the process. The details
may throw you for a loop because people will lie, they will give
contradictory information. Look at the process." That's a very good
principle. What I have been doing is analyzing a lot of raw data, raw facts
and interview information, and I have been putting together a coherent
puzzle. That means you have to overlook a lot of disinformation.
Wayne Morris:
In the late seventies there was a certain amount of information about CIA
mind control that came out to the public, and I would like to know what you
think are the problems inherent in trying to prove the existence of mind
control to a general audience through government documentation?
Fritz Springmeier:
The problems with trying to expose things through government documentation
are one, the documentation has been destroyed or tampered with and to get
the government involved in exposing these things, what you are basically
doing is asking a bunch of criminals, that's what they are even thought
they work in government positions, to expose themselves with paperwork.
That's just not the way things work. When we think about the Nazis, they
were trying to destroy all traces of their crimes. They tried, they didn't
succeed. That gives me some hope that even though a great percentage of the
proof of the mind control in terms of government documentation has been
destroyed, I am still convinced that tons of documents still exist. But I
think even better than those tons of documents are the living proof we have
in the tens of thousands of identified living victims.
The other side to the problem of getting government documents is that then
you have to have some way to broadcast that to the public at large and we
have a controlled media, and unfortunately the media is very tight with the
government. You can really question whether you would ever see our
controlled media fully expose to the proper degree the people that need to
be exposed.
Wayne Morris:
It seems highly unlikely that the mainstream media is going to be
investigating this. It's more likely to be coming from independent
investigation and independent publishers of this information.
Fritz Springmeier:
I would love to see the places where the records are kept broken into and
these records exposed, but the only way I can see this happening would be
if there was a revolution on the magnitude of what happened in Eastern
Europe where Stasi records and things like this were exposed to the light
of day.
Wayne Morris:
Do you think a government investigation into the mind control experiments,
similar to what has happened with the Tuskegee syphilis and the radiation
experiments would actually bring out information?
Fritz Springmeier:
I believe it would bring out information. That's true. However, for the
government to investigate this is like asking the fox how much of a threat
he is to chickens. The fox is going to tell us something, enough to satisfy
us, but I am real leery about giving the government another chance to push
some ulterior agenda. The bottom line is that a government investigation is
going to cost us more tax dollars, and I think people sometimes forget that
every time they send their government scurrying around doing something that
it comes out of their pocketbook.
Wayne Morris:
Do you think there is any benefit though, to society as a whole, in terms
of having a government investigation going on, and having the government at
least admit they did do these kinds of experiments? Is there any benefit to
the people as a whole in trying to expose this?
Fritz Springmeier:
As a whole? The way you ask your question is going to reflect the way I
answer. No, it will not. The reason why I say this is that earlier on the
US Congress had Rockefeller investigate the CIA. Rockefeller investigate
the CIA!?! (Laughs) Of course his investigating committee came up with
abuses, they have got to find something wrong, but the thing of it is that
it makes Rockefeller look like a good fellow. "Oh look he's a crusader who
is trying to expose the bad guys." They always throw in an ulterior agenda.
If they are going to do something against themselves, they use it as
another opportunity to work on some other agenda. If they expose A, B and C
about mind control, then they are probably doing it in a way so they are
misdirecting people's attention from their latest technology through an
older model that they have discontinued, or something like that. They are
going to work in some ulterior agenda that when it's all said and done, it
has actually done a disservice.
Wayne Morris:
How do you think the information about mind control has been kept from
public attention for so long?
Fritz Springmeier:
As we mentioned just a little bit earlier, we have a controlled media and
in a number of my publications I have gone into detail and showed who is in
control of the media, and how these people are Illuminati members or
participating in their Illuminati fronts. I document how the Rockefellers,
and the Rothschilds and the William Randolph Hearsts - Illuminati kingpins
- control the media. I think it's appropriate a couple of anecdotes.
I was visiting one day with a Christian minister and he was asking me what
I did since I worked full time exposing the mind control and helping
victims of mind control, and exposing the New World Order's agenda. I was
honest with him, and told him that and in the course of doing that I
mentioned something about the controlled media and boy he hit the roof. He
went ballistic on me because just prior to becoming a minister he had been
an ABC reporter. He said, "there is no control over the media! I was
allowed to write and have any stories that I wanted!" I said, "whoa, slow
down, let me ask you some questions." When you were hired, your superior
hired you and kept you on because he liked the way you thought and the way
you wrote ... and likewise his superior liked the way he thought and the
way he wrote ... and on and on down the line. If anybody had written or
thought in ways that weren't the approved ways of thinking and writing you
would have gotten in trouble, wouldn't you. He said "yes." I said, that's
it ... when I work with victims of mind control they can't see that they
are under programming. As long as they do exactly what the programming asks
them to do, they don't know that they are in programming. The only time
that they know that there is any programming there is if they step out and
act against it. If you are running with the wind behind your back or if you
are in a stream and you are floating down the stream, you don't notice the
current. But when you try to swim upstream is when you really notice the
power of the current. So if you as a reporter step out of what their
expectations are, that's when you get clobbered and you realize there is a
lot of heavy force behind going against the direction the way they want to
go in. He said, "you're right." I said if you had written an article that
had been contrary to the way your boss thought, you would have been in
trouble, wouldn't you? He said, "yes, you are right, I see your point."
That's my point. People don't notice the control until you start bucking
against that control and then you are going to find out how much control
there is over our entire society.
Wayne Morris:
It seems that control in the newsrooms is almost at an unspoken level, and
often for a lot of reporters it's an economic motivation as well. The
stories that their editors do get accepted, the stories the editors don't
like don't get accepted and the reporters don't get paid for it. They very
quickly appreciate what their editors are going to accept and print.
Fritz Springmeier:
Exactly.
Wayne Morris:
I would like to talk about the mind control that the Illuminati have used
and the techniques therein. What is your understanding of the forms of mind
control they have used?
Fritz Springmeier:
The phrase that I like to use is "Total Mind Control" because it totally
controls the person - body, soul and spirit. And the common person out
there has never really imagined that something so all-encompassing or so
horrendous or so totally powerful even exists. The type of mind control the
Illuminati use - I think some people think "oh, mind control - television -
yeah - subliminals." No. I am talking about something that is 1000 or
10,000 times more powerful. This mind control is totally undetectable and
it totally controls the person and it uses every known technique of
controlling a person wrapped up in a sophisticated group package. That's
one of the important things that a lot of people have not emphasized - that
it's not one technique, but what makes this total mind control of the
Illuminati so powerful is that it's a sophisticated group package
incorporating all of the known techniques of control. All of these methods
have been carefully interwoven. When you listen to someone from an
intelligence agency, occasionally they have talked similar to this, where
they will say, "we tried such and such a technique but it only worked in
70% of the cases so we couldn't use it ... and we tried this technique and
it only worked part of the time." But what they are not telling you is that
if you take a method that works only 70% of the time and match that to
another technique that works 60% of the time, and another technique that
works 50% of the time and you have 100 techniques wrapped up together like
that, you make a package deal that totally locks the victim in to the
control.
Wayne Morris:
Can you talk about some of these techniques individually and how they were
used as a group package?
Fritz Springmeier:
When I started out to describe to people what was going on, I had files and
files. I had about 150 files of different techniques. I was thinking to
myself, well I can't talk about 150 techniques, that's too overwhelming for
people. I thought and realize that all of these techniques broke down into
12 sciences. One of the sciences is the science of trauma and torture.
Others is how to use applied drugs to control a person; their ability to
use mental states such as hypnosis, dissociation, the trance states; their
skill at deceiving people and deceiving the victim themselves. One needs to
understand that the victims of the Illuminati mind control do not even know
themselves that they are under control. So there is a lot of skill in using
fiction and deceit and fronts and covers. There is a science of using
spiritual things to control a person. In fact actually that is perhaps one
of the major, if not 'the major' method of controlling a person.
There is a science of using spiritual things to control a person. In fact
actually that is perhaps one of the major, if not the major method of
controlling a person. One of the things that's not political popular today
for people today in science to admit is that mankind has a spiritual side
to them, but humans do have a spiritual side to them and the Illuminati
understand how to spiritually control someone. Their understanding of that
has boggled my mind. They have only allowed the common people including the
Christian people - the crumbs so to speak - even our ministers have only
been given the crumbs on how to develop a person spiritually.
Wayne Morris:
And how do you feel they have developed this and gained this knowledge?
Fritz Springmeier:
A lot of this began back in the Sleep Temples of the Egyptians. We go back
to your Egyptian priesthood and the Mystery religions - they were already
learning at that time how to use electric shock - they used electric eels
and other things to electrically shock people. They had already started to
learn the use of drugs and herbs to create altered states and to control
people. These were secrets though that were very closely guarded by these
Illuminati families and their Mystery religion priesthood. But they
continued to develop these over the centuries. Another example of a closely
guarded secret was the ability to do cranial manipulation. During the
Middle Ages and even centuries prior to that, the oligarchical families
that controlled the common people had specialists that did torture for the
kings, and they kept their secrets about torturing to themselves. One of
the things they developed was the ability to do cranial manipulation. You
have to be very careful when you start moving the bones of the skull. A lot
of people don't realize that the skull is not a solid bone, but it has
sutures between the different parts of it, and you can do very subtle
manipulations and move those skull bones. In fact today there is something
called cranial osteopathy. These osteopaths are very skilled in using their
fingers. That developed from the family of bone-setters who tied back into
the occult who had learned the secret occult skills of manipulation.
Wayne Morris:
What has effect has this had in terms of the mind control - the cranial
manipulation?
Fritz Springmeier:
Cranial manipulation has been kept an occult secret in occult bloodlines
for centuries. And it can be used for good, to heal people. It can be used
to change the way the face looks to improve the face, or it can be used for
evil, to torture someone or to control their mind. By manipulating the
skull you can actually change the way the person thinks to make them more
dissociative, or more compliant, or develop their thinking in other ways.
Wayne Morris:
Can you explain how they would start using these techniques, and generally
at what age they would start?
Fritz Springmeier:
When a child is conceived, a lot of them - their very birth has been an
idea from the start. Somebody who is in the Illuminati conceiving a child
in an occult ritual with a woman. It gets very involved as to how they hide
their lineages. Let's put it this way. Not everybody born to mothers are
actually the biological children of that mother. There is a lot of
switching done at hospitals and so forth. The child's birth has been
planned. While the child is in the fetus, they already begin certain things
to test the fetus' mental abilities and to traumatize that fetus so it will
be more dissociated.
Wayne Morris:
How would they do that?
Fritz Springmeier:
A fetus does not like to be poked, does not like substances that taste bad.
If a mother eats a lot of sugar they have shown by watching the fetus that
these unborn children like the taste of sugar as it diffuses into what the
child is getting from the mother. So if you combine a lot of these things
that are horrific. If you have a lot of loud noises - and the father is
screaming at the mother and throwing her around and abusing the mother,
making the mother very upset. Then you've got loud music, rock and roll, or
screaming or something. You have also given the mother something to eat
that tasted really bad to the fetus and you can do a number of things that
are going to hit that little unborn child at the same time. It's going to
be overwhelmed, and it's going to develop its ability to dissociate.
Wayne Morris:
To your awareness, has electricity been used in this regard?
Fritz Springmeier:
Not so much in the traumatization of the fetus. They use that after the
child is born. They oftentimes will have a premature birth. It happens in
many different ways, but one of the methods they like to use is to have a
premature birth because then the child can be traumatized naturally. There
are a whole bunch of natural traumas that go along with being premature.
Your skin is very sensitive, you get catheters up your behind, and so
forth. They want the traumatization to begin very early on because they
want somebody who can trance out and dissociate from the pain. You are
probably familiar with the Indian fakirs - the holy men in Indian who can
walk on coals and stick pins in themselves and sleep on beds of nails. How
does it happen? Because they are able to dissociate and go into a trance
state, an altered state. The Illuminati want to create individuals who are
able to dissociate very well, because that is part of the requirement to
have the ability to have a multiple personality.
Wayne Morris:
And that is the purpose of the traumatization - is to create that
dissociation?
Fritz Springmeier:
That's one of the purposes.
Wayne Morris:
What is the importance of dissociation within the total mind control?
Fritz Springmeier:
It's extremely important. You will hear a lot in recent times about
electronic mind control, and that's being used to divert people away from
the more important issue of multiple personality disorder or DID. The
ability to create multiple personalities that are programmed is extremely
important. It's why they have the ability to be secret, it's why they are
able to do so much in secret. The electronic mind control - throwing mental
ideas into somebody's brain which are foreign is not that much of a threat.
I have worked with quite a few victims of electronic mind control and the
majority, if not all of them, are able to recognize that something is being
beamed into their heads that is foreign. But when you are dissociated and
you have amnesia between yourself and other parts of your mind, you don't
know what you yourself in your entirety are all about. For instance I had a
Christian minister who spent some time trying to deprogram - he has come
and visited here to work on his programming. Here you have a Christian
minister who, horrors of horrors, discovers that he has a dissociated part
of his mind which has been functioning within the Illuminati and these
other parts of his mind are satanic. Imagine being a man of God and finding
out that you have parts of yourself that sacrifice people ... (laughs).
That's why this ability to dissociate into multiple personalities is such a
dangerous ability.
Wayne Morris:
Maybe you can talk about the nature of dissociation and how that is used
for controlling somebody and also, as you mentioned, being not aware of the
different identities that are being used for other purposes ...
Fritz Springmeier:
People are familiar with dissociation and how the mind has the ability to
function on several tracks. For instance, if you are at a party and
engrossed in a conversation with somebody and you are focused on what they
are saying, and all of a sudden somebody across the room says your name,
and your mind immediately switches and goes "oh they are calling me over
there", well that's one evidence, and there are other ways to realize that
the mind is not one monolithic entity but it is broken up into components.
While you were engaged in that conversation with somebody, there was one
part of your mind which was still listening to other things. It was a
dissociated part of the conscious mind; in other words, it was dissociated
from the conscious. You weren't conscious of that part of your mind that
was listening to the rest of the conversation but it was.
Hypnosis, trance and dissociation are just different aspects of the same
thing. The Illuminati have learned over the centuries how to put people in
different mental states and the information is learned in the different
states. To access that information best, you need to go back to that
particular state. People realize what I am saying because when you get into
a particular situation that's reminiscent of a previous experience, that's
when your memory is best triggered. They go a lot further than just using
natural dissociation. They have learned how to create amnesia walls within
the mind and basically what they are doing to the mind is the same as what
we do to computers. In order to make computers functional they had to
figure out some way to section off part of the computer's memory so the
user could not access that memory. It had to nest that memory. You will
notice that when you reboot your computer, the computer reboots itself with
memory that you weren't able to access. That memory was dissociated - in
human terms I guess you could say there is an amnesia wall there.
They know how to build walls in the mind to mentally section off the mind -
and they do this through trauma. If you get a severe enough trauma what the
mind will do in order to continue functioning is dissociate that trauma
with an amnesia wall. Let's say you were in war and your best friend had
just gotten blown to smithereens by artillery ... his guts are lying out.
Your mind may build amnesia walls around this event and you may not be able
to remember it. So the worse the trauma, the better the amnesia wall.
The Illuminati take a small child about two years old, and they begin
traumatizing it with the worst traumas that are imaginable so that they can
create these amnesia walls. They find these dissociated pieces of the mind
which are just like in a sense floppy disks, then they put in their
programming to the dissociated parts of the mind as to what they want that
part to become. Some of these parts they make into personalities and they
create MPD, DID and then while they are creating these multiple
personalities, they are programming them to be exactly what they want them
to be.
Wayne Morris:
Before we get into what kinds of things they are used for, maybe we can
just go back and talk about how a person is conditioned to be a total mind
control slave, and pick it up when the child is born. What happens there in
terms of the conditioning.
Fritz Springmeier:
The programmers like to say "this child is a piece of clay", and they view
themselves as the potter's wheel, of course. They are very skilled in
knowing how to take a child and work with that child's mind to create what
they want. We could talk all day about this. One of the aspects we haven't
gotten into yet is their ability to go in and identify - they use EEG's -
backtracking and stepping outside of the Illuminati for a second ... You've
got researchers like Hans Eisneck, who happened to have been born in
Germany and other researchers too who studied how your average _______
potentials - these are brainwaves - can be monitored and can be used to see
what type of thinking that brain is capable of. You can use EEG's to
determine personality and IQ. They have correlated their ability to study
the human brain with EEG's to John Gittinger's PAS tests. When a child is
born they begin testing its brain to see what is this person's personality,
what type of thinking is this person capable of, what type of career should
be plan out for this person. So they take the natural bent of the mind, the
natural capabilities of the mind and they work with that. Likewise when
they are doing the traumatization and they are splitting the mind, they
work with the child's creativity and what those pieces of the mind think.
Wayne Morris:
Typically at what age do these tests start - the EEG's and the Personality
Assessment Surveys ...
Fritz Springmeier:
They do some of it while the child is still a fetus, and after its born
they start neonatal behavioral assessment skills, the Bailey Scales and
other tests, and within a short time, perhaps by 18 months, they will be
doing EEG's and determining what they want to do. Once they determine what
kind of life they want to structure for this person, they begin the mind
control to structure the person for that career. This is why people like
myself who have a natural intelligence that has never been connected to any
of these bloodlines, we have such a hard time out there in the competition
because the Illuminati can take a particular child and manipulate things
from behind the scenes and open all the right doors for this person, and
they can get them the grants and the schooling and everything they need and
adding impetus to this person's career is the mind control that is steering
them in that direction too. The end product is you end up with somebody who
is an engineer or a lawyer or a politician who is very highly qualified for
what they are doing.
Wayne Morris:
Once they have controlled somebody, what kinds of things would they be used
to do for the Illuminati?
Fritz Springmeier:
This has not been brought out very well by other people and maybe it's just
simply because they are not aware of it, but the mind control is not just
to create somebody who is a sexual slave, but it's to infiltrate and
control society across the board. Understand that if you are going to
control something like establishment medicine - you have to have your
people in key positions because the weakest link the chain is going to
break. You can't have any weak links. They salt their people throughout
society in general, from the gutter to the castles. An example of one group
of people that they have created for modern society are stalkers. In my
recent book, Deeper Insights Into the Illuminati Formula, I go into how
they create stalkers and why they create stalkers.
Let's say you are trying to control medicine because the establishment
medical system brings them in lots of money and the medical establishment
is very powerful, you have to have control of the entire spectrum of things
- the hospitals, what kind of health care is going to be available, the
type of training these doctors are going to get, they have created secret
strike forces like the CCHI and the NCHF that keep people in line. All of
this requires mind control slaves being salted in throughout the entire
system. If you have one weak link - for instance if you have one person who
is practising alternative medicine and you don't control the judicial
system - you are not going to be able to convict, eg. this homeopathic
doctor if you don't control the judicial system. You have to have this vast
secret apparatus, and until people understand the mind control, they can't
understand how there could possibly be the type of control that they have.
Wayne Morris:
In order to understand how they are able to control these people that they
have put in key positions in society, we do have to talk more about the
techniques of mind control, and maybe we can go into that now, of how they
are able to effect control over these people. For example, the trauma.
Fritz Springmeier:
The trauma would be used for a whole number of reasons, but at the very
basic level when you traumatize somebody to the point where they almost
die, or actually to be more specific they actually do "kill" these people
but they know exactly how many seconds they can allow them to be killed and
still bring them back to life. They manipulate near-death experiences, they
have that down to a science. That was the major reason that you had the
major concentration camp experiments by Mengele where people were tortured.
He belonged to an Illuminati bloodline and was doing Illuminati research
for mind control purposes, he did a lot of research on twins. They found
out exactly how much trauma you could give different people before you
killed them. What that trauma does is it puts the brain back into a
survival mode and now I have to get into explaining that the popular
concept of the brain being one monolithic brain is real deceptive.
It has been kept very secret but the human brain is actually seven brains.
The first brain of the human mind - the medullah and the pons - is called
the Reptilian Brain because it thinks like a reptilian. If you are always
traumatizing a person, you keep them in their reptilian thinking or their
survival based thinking. Survival based thinking has certain
characteristics. At the very basic level, the trauma can be used to keep
somebody within their survival based thinking. It also creates fear and
there is a whole series that spiritually happen to a person when they get
caught up in fear.
If you think in terms of blackmail, the listener may remember when he was a
child and somebody grabbed your arm and twisted it and said "say uncle" and
of course your arm hurt, and you gave in. That's a very simple type of mind
control. The trauma and the torture can be used in a very simple way - if
you don't comply it is going to hurt. Men who are slaves are electroshocked
in their genitals. It is very painful. That's a very simple way of bringing
someone in line. Then of course there are ways the trauma is used to split
the mind, fracture them into thousands of pieces, create multiple
personality disorder. That's one of the techniques.
Wayne Morris:
Just to stay on the topic of trauma, what is the importance of maintaining
that trauma in terms of keeping the conditioning intact and keeping the
state of dissociation intact?
Fritz Springmeier:
They want to maintain a high level of trance and dissociative behaviour in
the victim, so they like to continue traumatizing the person. As I brought
out earlier, there is more involved than just keeping the dissociative
level high. Your also trying to maintain the person to stay in the
reptilian, survival based thinking; trying to keep them having a spirit of
fear controlling their lives, so they don't slack off. They secretly train
the parents of the children who are being programmed on how to abuse their
children so they keep their children very dissociative. Not only that, if
the children are going to some established religious institute, eg.
Catholic church, Episcopalian church, their priests, their clergymen have
been trained in how to abuse the children. This is why you have such a big
modern day problem within the Catholic church. So many of the priests
abusing children and the lawsuits brought against this church, and some
people have said they think it is going to financially bankrupt the church
- the reason why so much of this is going on is for purposes of mind
control.
Wayne Morris:
Have these priests and clergymen been coerced to participate in this, or
are they part of these Illuminati families? What is their role?
Fritz Springmeier:
There are a lot of different reasons why someone is a pedophile. One of the
problems within the Catholic church is that there haven't been normal
outlets for sexual activity provided for priests and nuns, and then they
are given these subversive ways to release their sexuality. Some of them
are actually secret satanists and this is part of the reward they receive
from a secret coven. There are various reasons as to why - some just go
along because that's what everybody else is doing and it is allowed until
people put their foot down and say we are not going to tolerate this. I can
talk about a number of cases where people did put their foot down and say
we are not going to tolerate this abuse of our child by the clergy, and the
hierarchy that should have penalized this person simply promoted them and
sent them to some other part of the country. Why they do it? God knows why
each person has become an abuser.
Wayne Morris:
Can you explain how the dissociation has been used in terms of programming
and the structure of that programming?
Fritz Springmeier:
The victim of the mind control has had their mind split into many
personalities, actually far more personalities than what the people in the
therapeutic community generally realize. Cisco who I brought out of the
Illuminati has very standard programming in many ways, although she has
unique features to her system of personalities. She had a very standard
grid of 13x13x13 alter personalities. Each one of those personalities has
been given a separate history, separate personality which has its own likes
and dislikes. What they did was turn what was one person into a whole city
of people and the only way the mind of the slave can function is if it
relies upon the master to give it stability. Imagine if your mind was a
whole series of competing persons, each with their own ideas, likes,
dislikes. The only way to bring some order out of the chaos would be to
have some controlling entity ordering that chaos. Some of the slaves have
reached the point of becoming aware that they are multiples and on the
deeper levels they realize that they need the mind control for their minds
not to break down into total craziness. Another way of looking at it is -
what the Illuminati are doing is creating controlled insanity for these
victims of the mind control to endure the horrific trauma that's given to
them, they have to isolate their memories of that trauma and the parts of
the mind that have to pick up some of that trauma - some of those parts, in
essence, I hate to use the word "crazy", but they are taking the garbage
that's happening and the mind is shuffling and isolating it. If those walls
of dissociation break down, then the other parts of the mind are going to
have to deal with a lot of garbage.
Wayne Morris:
Why do you think they needed so many identities to be in place?
Fritz Springmeier:
If you are going to invest the time to create a robot, you are going to
incorporate as many capabilities as possible and you want to
compartmentalize so everything is secret. One of the reasons why
intelligence agencies function so well - eg. CIA - is that they
compartmentalize everything. You only "know" on a regional basis. They do
the same with these people's minds. A slave may function on many different
levels. He's got his front - they create the best front possible - his or
her everyday life - but then they may want to use that person for drug
smuggling, money laundering, carrying messages, performing satanic rituals,
producing porn movies, assassinating somebody, spying on somebody - and
then you've got internal jobs too. Going back to what I said earlier,
remembering how the mind has been fractured into many dissociated pieces,
and essentially a whole city of people has been made out of those pieces.
In order for that city of people to function, you have to have different
jobs. You will have some of the older personalities taking care of baby
personalities internally in the person's mind - you have functions -
gatekeepers, hierarchy alters that are controlling other alters - a
hierarchy of personalities. That's a whole science in itself - how to
structure dissociated parts of the mind.
Wayne Morris:
You mentioned the one structure, 13x13x13 grid. Are there other structures
used that you are aware of?
Fritz Springmeier:
There are many different structures. It all depends on the whim and fancy
of the programmer as he shatters the victim's mind, he can reassemble that
mind however he wants to. He can use a sphere - they create systems within
systems too. A common system within a system is the cabalistic tree of
life.
Wayne Morris:
Do you see similarities in the survivors that you have been working with in
terms of the structures?
Fritz Springmeier:
Oh yes. That's one of the things - you can have a therapist in one state,
and they will not have know anything about MPD or DID and they will start
working with the victim and call another therapist for help and taking
notes. The victim will say, "I drew these pictures. I don't know what they
mean." "I am fascinated with Star Trek (or the Wizard of Oz) (Mickey
Mouse)". The therapist will call another therapist and ask what they make
of this. If this other therapist is experienced, they may say "oh hey -
I've got somebody who is just like that." All across the country, there are
therapists and then people like myself who is a minister working with these
people who are running into the same patterns time and time again, the same
structures. Like I was saying, working with people who were in the
Illuminati, working with people that did the programming itself, is really
helping my learning curve too in terms of the structures that are built in.

Another common structure you will see is a lot of mirror imaging, that's a
more of a technique than a structure.
Wayne Morris:
What do you mean by that? The mirroring of an alter?
Fritz Springmeier:
Mirroring of all kinds of things. That's part of the technique of deceit.
Wayne Morris:
That's the purpose of using this mirroring, for example if a therapist came
across one alter, dealt with, there may have been a mirror of that ...
Fritz Springmeier:
A lot of the therapists think they are dealing with a particular
personality but they are dealing with its mirror image. The systems are
programmed, created so that if somebody starts working with them there are
all these defensive mechanisms that are triggered. One of the defensive
mechanisms is to have mirror image alters take the place of who the
therapist is trying to work with. So the therapist thinks they have done
something but they have actually just played games. Mirror images of things
within the programming itself so that when one particular personality tries
to work on their mind's programming, the mind is so confusing about what
they still internally - that they can't figure out their own mind.
The best manager is somebody who doesn't have to spend a lot of time giving
instructions to a person. If you are a slave master and you have to be
constantly telling that slave what to do, and constantly correcting it, and
making sure it's doing its job, you become a slave to the slave.
What you want to do is create a human robot which will be self-directed and
self-correcting so they create hierarchies of alters within the person and
one of the things they do is create alter personalities within the person's
mind who think they are the programmer themself.
So, Ewen Cameron who was a programmer - his victim would have personalities
within them that would think they are Ewen Cameron. Therefore they would
carry out the abuse of other personalities as they would perceive Ewen
Cameron would do it. That's one use of mirrors. Another use of mirrors is
if you are teaming two slaves together, let's say you and are teamed. I
would have personalities in me that think they are you and you would have
personalities created in you that think they are me and it would further
the binding process.
Wayne Morris:
Generally speaking, with people who have this kind of mind control, how
many personalities are you talking about?
Fritz Springmeier:
A lot. Cisco has 30,000 standard alters and then there are lots of other
dissociated pieces too. That would not be abnormal. The small part of the
therapeutic community that's trying to address DID generally work with a
few front personalities. There are number of books out there written by
people with MPD where the therapist came in and worked with five or six
front personalities. The Illuminati step back and allow them to integrate
some front personalities and the person is told by the therapist "you are
now integrated, you're fine" and they left therapy, and everybody is happy.
The victim thinks they are free of their MPD, the therapist has made a lot
of money and gotten famous over some book they have written, and the
Illuminati is happy because these are just front alters that have been
stabilized. The system of alters are far more complex than people realize.
Wayne Morris:
What are the dangers involved in dealing with therapy with a mind control
victim, particularly when a therapist may be unaware of the techniques and
structures of mind control?
Fritz Springmeier:
I have to caution people that some of the best minds of the 20th century -
we have hundreds, if not thousands, of the best minds who have spent many,
many years figuring out how to build these mechanisms into the mind slaves
to protect the programming. In a sense what it is like - imagine you are
going in to try and hack a computer - imagine a system that is set up so
that if someone is not an approved user comes into the room and looks at
the computer, the computer shuts down, the computer explodes. That's really
what you are looking at in trying to work with a mind control victim - they
have a lot of suicide programming so that if the front alters, the
personalities that hold the body day in and day out - if they were ever to
find out they were in mind control, or that they were a multiple
personality, they would commit suicide. You have all kinds of defensive
programs. Not only is the computer programmed to explode if you walk into
the room, but if you touch the keyboard as an unauthorized user, again the
computer is programmed to explode. Every step of the way there are backup
programs to deceive, to destroy. It is not easy. It is something the novice
does not want to get into. It's something that takes a lot of time and
patience and skill, and a lot of love for the victims too. One has to
really abhor what is going on to have the motivation that it takes to work
with such a complex problem.
Wayne Morris:
What would you recommend for therapists wanting to know more about how this
is done, and how they can help heal the victims?
Fritz Springmeier:
I strongly recommend our three books - I co-authored these 3 books with
Cisco Wheeler. The one I already mentioned, "The Illuminati Formula Used to
Create a Total Mind Controlled Slave". The sequel to that which is 620
pages, "Deeper Insights into the Illuminati Formula", part 1 is how the
control comes about and part 2 is how the help comes about. We've got a lot
of good information in there laying the foundation as to what's happened,
and how to begin to unravel what has happened.
Wayne Morris:
In terms of your own work, how much success have you had in working with
victims of mind control?
Fritz Springmeier:
The problem that the mind control presents is overwhelming, and there are
countless therapeutic issues, so there is no end to the different issues
that can be worked on. Cisco and I have freely given of our time to help
any victim of mind control in whatever way we could. The degree of
therapeutic success depends on a number of things. One, it depends upon the
situation the victim puts themselves in. If they are willing to extract
themselves from their everyday life and go somewhere where it is safe, they
are going to do a lot more - work more therapeutic issues, because the mind
of a mind controlled slave is not going to let its guard down as long as
it's not safe. This gets back into understanding how the reptilian mind and
the survival based thinking can override other areas of the mind. When you
become deathly frightened for your life, your survival instincts take
precedence over the other parts of your brain. If you have been traumatized
your entire life, your survival based thinking is your primary method of
thinking and it doesn't take much to throw you into the fear based survival
based thinking. So the first criteria for doing successful work with a mind
control victim is to get them someplace safe. You could say that 99.9% of
the victims of mind control have never been given that. Therapists do not
set things up for survivors or victims of mind control to be in any safe
situation. When I say safe, I mean they have to be safe 24 hours a day.
Cisco and I have been able to work with victims to the degree the situation
allowed. There is no end to the work we could do if the right set-up
presented itself. This is why I was hoping to create a deprogramming
centre. There was a man who was CIA who was very horrified at what the
government intelligence agencies had been doing to people, and I have a
friend whom this CIA man knew who also works at providing therapy for mind
control victims. This CIA man wrote into his will to give a number of
millions of dollars to my clients for the purpose of doing therapy work
with mind control victims. And then my friend in turn was going to give me
a couple of million dollars so I could start a deprogramming centre. This
man's will when he died, was in the Oklahoma Federal Building, and the only
copy of the will that we know about was in there. So I was rather upset
when the building exploded, because that short-circuited our plans to build
a couple of deprogramming centres. Short of building some place that is
safe and that is staffed with competent people, it is extremely difficult
to accomplish much.
Even when I have accomplished positive therapy with a victim, all that it
takes for the other side to do is physically grab them and reprogram them.
This is what has happened for me over the past years in terms of trying to
help victims, and as a warning to the public and the therapeutic community
at large, at this point not a whole lot has really been accomplished to
thwart the mind control.
Wayne Morris:
Now in the optimal situation, to what degree have you been able to free the
victims of the control?
Fritz Springmeier:
Given the optimal situation where we have someone who is safe, we can take
down the mind control. We can do some serious re-structuring and make some
really serious headway in helping a person. We can do some significant
spiritual work with them. There can be some integrating work begun. There
are all kinds of things that can happen. On the flip side of it, is the
work ever finished? I don't think it is, because the damage that has been
done is so extensive, and you never know as a therapist that you have
succeeded in finding every dissociated fragment of the mind. Remember there
are thousands of fragments of the mind because the traumatization is so
prolonged over so many years, and is so horrific, that you can never be
sure that you have gotten all of the dissociated pieces, and each of those
dissociated pieces is probably going to have programming attached to it.
Wayne Morris:
What is your sense of how many people have been affected by this?
Fritz Springmeier:
A very conservative estimate - I shouldn't even say estimate because I have
computed it from about seven different angles - a conservative figure is 2
million Americans have been programmed with trauma based total mind
control.
Wayne Morris:
And that's just in the USA?
Fritz Springmeier:
Yes.
Wayne Morris:
And is it your sense that this is going on world-wide?
Fritz Springmeier:
Oh indeed yes, it is. More with your primary political powers. You've got
programming going on in Europe, Russia, the U.S.A. - those are your primary
areas of programming but in other places too.
Wayne Morris:
I would like to talk about some of the other techniques now of mind
control. How has electricity played a role?
Fritz Springmeier:
Electric shock has been a standard part of the abuse, and it serves as a
form of trauma. And stun guns are a standard item to keep the slaves in
line and also to erase their memories. They might use perhaps a 120,000 DC
volt stun gun to erase and compartmentalize fragments, memories of a slave
who has just been used. When you shock a person, it destroys the short-term
memory. It fragments it, 24 hours either way of the event. They can also
use the shock treatments like Ewen Cameron to splinter the mind so that's
electro-shock. Elecricity has been used in terms of implements or devices
that have been implanted into people and also used in equipment that will
throw thoughts into a peron's mind. You have microwave towers going up
vectoring in ELF waves into people's minds. So electricity is being used in
a lot of high tech ways, or electromagnetic waves are being used in a lot
of high techn ways ...
They have different machines - EDOM electronic dissolution of memory where
they wipe out your memory; harmonic machines that are used which some of
your speakers have probably talked about - these machines can be used for
the deprogramming work too. Electricity is also used in the flip way in
that since the human brain gives off frequencies, they go in and scan a
person's personal frequencies they are giving off. There is a prime freq -
which is the primary frequency a person gives off and that can be used to
identify them from a distance. They know the different frequencies that the
brain uses. Coming at it from a different angle, if you think of the brain
when it creates a particular thought, it gives off particular frequencies.
They simply created particular thoughts within a person and monitored
electrical impulses along with that thought, fed that into computers. I am
simplifying what they did - but basically that's what they have done to
decode being able to read what their brain is thinking. If you monitor the
frequencies that are being given off by a person, then you can monitor what
their thoughts are. So not only can you throw particular thoughts into
people's heads, but they can monitor their thoughts too.A lot of the
monitoring and instilling of thoughts, etc. are being done with implants.
Wayne Morris:
Can we just go back to electroshock. You mentioned that it is used to erase
memories perhaps of the identity of the people who are doing the
programming. But don't they run the risk of erasing the programming itself?
How do they deal with that?
Fritz Springmeier:
This gets back into understanding how the programming is put in, and the
level at which it is put in. Remember we talked about dissociated states?
The primary programming that is put in is put in at a comatose level. There
are different levels that you can program somebody to - if you start out
with an adult, for instance, the CIA's nomenclature is mind control Level
5. Somebody who has been given mind control to the 5th level generally has
some cover story like for Roseanne Barr - she had an automobile accident
apparently as a teenager. They take these people in and they are taken down
to a comatose level where their bodies are comatose for quite a long period
of time, and the programming is put in at an extremely deep level. At a
level where your mind is regulating your heartbeat. The programming is put
in and it is nested in at an extremely deep level. When they destroy
short-term memory with electroshocking, that's not even coming close to the
deep programs - that is just affecting the short-term memory.
Wayne Morris:
Have they deliberately regulated the amount of electricity in terms of
achieving a desired effect?
Fritz Springmeier:
Oh yeah. Everything is extremely scientific. This is why they had to do a
lot of the horrific testing during WWII in the concentration camps. You
just don't traumatize a person indiscriminately or you will kill them. You
have to know what you are doing. They have doctors and heart monitoring
equipment. The fundamental programming is done in hospital settings, or
hospital-type settings. That's why a lot of the VA hospitals here in the
USA - actually all of the VA hospitals - have been used for programming. A
lot of the other civilian hospitals have also had particular wards set up
where they were able to do programming. They are monitoring heartbeat, they
know just how far to push them. When they start going into a near-death
experience they know exactly when they can electroshock them to bring them
back to life, etc. It is very skilled. They have to be very skilled in the
drugs they use, how and when they administer them, what they do when the
person is under drugs. What they do is not haphazard.
Wayne Morris:
So a lot of experimentation has gone into refining these techniques?
Fritz Springmeier:
Yes. Exactly.
Wayne Morris:
Can you tell us if you know anything about the development of brain implant
technology and that has been used for mind control?
Fritz Springmeier:
There are six different types of implants. Audio implants that are used to
allow the victim to hear something. Body manipulation implants that are put
in to manipulate the body in some way, perhaps to release a hormone or to
keep them from getting pregnant or to torture them, or something like that.
Then you have a visual holographic implant which will give a holographic
image to the person. You have implants that are mimics or brain link
implants that if I want to directly download something to the brain, those
are very secret implants. The implants are not used across the board with
all mind controlled slaves. There are select groups that are receiving the
implants and like the mimics, implants are only going to a select group.
Then you've got your torture and muscle stimulating implants. Then the one
everybody hears about - the tracking and ID implants - that everybody is so
concerned about. Those are the implants that were given to a lot of
American soldiers in Desert Storm. They were told they needed implants so
that the global positioning system could keep track of them so they
wouldn't get lost in the desert.
Wayne Morris:
I am curious about the actual implants themselves in terms of how they are
implanted and approximately the size through the development of the
technology?
Fritz Springmeier:
The development has gotten really high tech. You have several types of
development here that need to be brought out. One, that's called "nanobots"
- nanotechnology which are tiny little robots that range from 10-1/1000
billionth of a meter. The word "nano" means billionth - we are talking
extremely microscopic robots here that are able to replicate themselves.
Molecular size robots. Possibly the listeners have heard of the Scanning
Tunnelling microscope? There are different names for it, but it is a little
device that can actually see a single atom, and actually pick up atoms and
move them. That's used to develop these nanobots which are robots that can
self replicate. You have fibre optics that have been developed and you will
have some victims that if they get rid of their fibre optics - the fibre
optic that is stuck into the victim often looks like a hair.
Wayne Morris:
What typically are these fibre optic implants used for?
Fritz Springmeier:
Good question. I wish I really knew the answer for that. Fibre optic glass
will carry signals, so in broad I can say the implants are being used to
transmit signals, I know that much. But I don't know all the ins and outs
of what kinds of signals are being sent. I have one victim of mind control
who had been sitting in a restaurant - it is sort of analgous to a blowgun
where they have hit her with something that looks just like a little hair
and the fibre optic filament embeds itself in her skin. While she is
sitting there eating, they have shot this filament into her. Fortunately
she noticed they had done this, and pulled it out. I had female victims who
had fibre optics that was disguised as hair that were put on their bodies.
I don't know the full role of the fibre optics but I know it is involved in
communications. One of the more dangerous developments are your organic
bioprocessors. These are molecular computers that are made up of DNA
material. You've got DNA templates and you can also have carbon chains that
are used. What they do is - with this biomaterial that is made into a
mini-computer, they will link that to a virus and viruses oftentimes have a
particular area of the body they like to migrate to. For instance a
neurotropic virus will migrate to the nervous system or a dermatropic virus
will migrate to the skin, pneuomtropic virus will go to the lungs. They
attack their little organic viral processor to this virus. How do you get a
virus into a person? There are a dozen different ways, it is easy to get a
virus into a victim's/host's body. So once these viruses migrate to that
area of the body they prefer, you've got a tiny little implant that is then
doing whatever function it is programmed to do. These are extremely
difficult to locate.
I have noticed in victims that have the virus implants that there will be a
sort of central control implant a lot of times put in the bottom base of
the neck. The central command implant will be receiving external signals
and then will in turn monitor the body suit of implants. Some of the
victims of these implants seem to have gotten some relief from being able
to kill the viruses. There are some alternative medical methods that might
be suggested to the victims that could take out these bio processors.
Wayne Morris:
For some of the larger implants, have victims been able to locate and
remove these kinds of implants somehow?
Fritz Springmeier:
Yes. There have been a number of victims that have been identified - have
been able to take xrays, have been able to get other types of scanning
mechanisms. There were three victims of electronic mind control that
managed to, as a group, get into an Anacoic Chamber and get results when
their signals were pinpointed as to source. They had to smuggle the
paperwork out from the lab in their bras because the lab technicians were
afraid of getting into trouble. Different victims of electronic mind
control have managed to get some proof or have actually pulled some of it
out. There are some doctors that actually have some of the implants. There
are a few clean surgeons that are willing to help victims. I might mention
the word Syntel here ... that's an important word for people to be familiar
with in understanding implants. Syntel is something that has been discussed
by our government repeatedly in some of their conferences. You will hear
the military in some of their semi-secret conferences discussing Syntel.
That's short for synthetic telepathy which means sending to victims voices
and thoughts - so these victims of Syntel are people who are receiving
voices and thoughts electronically.
Wayne Morris:
That seems to be able to be used in a couple of different ways in terms of
control, but also in terms of the situation with people claiming they are
hearing voices who are often labelled schizophrenic or psychotic ... it
seems to be a way of discrediting these people.
Fritz Springmeier:
Something that was developed and used during the space program which is
called biomedical telemetry - these are transmitters and receivers located
at the base of the skull which record the body functions and the brain
waves, and send it back to some computer somewhere. In fact in working with
victims of electronic mind control I can say with certainty that is what is
being done is that there are computers that are programmed with artificial
intelligence that are their handlers. Rather than having a human handler
day in and out, three shifts of human handlers controlling the victim of
electronic mind control, they have computers with A.I. Then if the victim
does something that throws the computer, the computer will signal a human
to come and get involved. It's been kind of interesting, the stories that
victims have told me about how they outsmarted the computers that were
trying to handle them.
Wayne Morris:
I would like to talk about, and you have mentioned the name, Josef Mengele.
What role did Josef Mengele play in developing mind control?
Fritz Springmeier:
He is like the father of modern programming. Prior to Josef Mengele, the
Illuminati had created MPD, but the training of those personalities had
been non-scientific. Mengele worked a lot with twins, understanding trauma
and how to use trauma. If somebody is about to die and they are rescued by
their programmer, they trauma-bond with that programmer. He learned how to
trauma-bond his victims to him. A lot of victims of mind control in Israel
and other parts of the world still refer to him as "Papa", they love him.
And if the programmer knows what he's doing, he can totally trauma-bond
that victim to him to where they love the programmer.
Wayne Morris:
It's like the Stockholm Syndrome ...
Fritz Springmeier:
He was taking programming into the world of science. In January 1945, when
it was very clear that the Nazis were going to lose, the Illuminati
smuggled him out into the West where he continued doing programming. I have
worked with a number of his mind control victims. One of his victims, a
lady here in this area, was actually in a concentration camp with Mengele;
as a child was experimented on and watched those horrors and had mind
control done in the concentration camps. And then she was smuggled via the
Ratline actually through your country, Canada, came through the Catholic
Church collaborators, brought her through Quebec and then to Portland. And
Josef Mengele continued his mind control here in the States.
Wayne Morris:
Was Mengele involved in mind control experiments previous to WWII?
Fritz Springmeier:
I don't believe so. He was in the Illuminati. His family is Illuminati, but
I don't have any knowledge of him doing it prior to the War. Of course I
don't know the whole story there. But there was some reason as to why he
was chosen for the position that he received. There may be more to the
story than I know.
Wayne Morris:
It appears that a lot of experimentation was done on the victims of the
Holocaust. You have mentioned trauma experiments. What other kinds of
experiments were done as they relate to mind control technology?
Fritz Springmeier:
One of the things that Mengele was doing, and his friend Ewen Cameron
continued this, was experimentation on eye pigmentation. One might say what
does this have to do with mind control? Well, like I said earlier, this
type of mind control is a total control - the mind, body and spirit of the
victim is totally controlled. It is far more extensive than people would
imagine.
This type of mind control regulates the heartbeat of the victim, and a lot
of other things. That's why the suicide programming can be so powerful. He
started this pigmentation experimentation which Ewen Cameron ... by the
way, Josef Mengele, when he came to the USA was known by the programming
name, Dr. Green and Ewen Cameron was known as Dr. White within the
Illuminati circles. Cisco Wheeler (whom I brought out of the Illuminati) -
her father was known as Dr. Black.
Wayne Morris:
You are saying that Cameron and Mengele were associates and friends?
Fritz Springmeier:
Yeah. Cisco would occasionally see these men (Drs. Green, and White and
there was a Dr. Blue) meet at her father's house out here on the West
Coast. They would come together and discuss their programmings,
methodologies, networking, talking with each other, etc. They were Program
Masters within the Illuminati. Mengele spent a lot of time travelling
world-wide, not just here in the Northwest. Cameron tended to work on the
East coast and as you are familiar, the Rockefeller Foundation gave him
$40,000 back in 1943 to create the Allen Memorial Institute. Even before
Mengele came to this country, Cameron was already part of their Illuminati
system.
Wayne Morris:
Did Ewen Cameron have a particular role within the development of mind
control technology? I understood he specialized in electroshock and went
around the country teaching other psychiatrists on methods of electroshock?
Was that his role, or was it broader?
Fritz Springmeier:
They were all working on how to refine the thing - these were your top of
the line programmers. Mengele was really the father of it all, and he
taught a lot of what he knew to Drs. White, Black and Blue. Mengele was the
one who had the opportunity to experiment on a lot of people in the
concentration camp where he did all kinds of weird and sadistic things.
Cameron and the others were both operational and experimental. If you look
at how the military and science works, when they discover something that is
workable, they will take that information and they will make a new
technology out of it, but they will continue experimenting to improve on
what they have done. So, at the same time that Cameron was using
electroshock to split the minds of his victims, he was also looking for
ways to refine what they were doing. Eventually they came back, and after
several decades of looking at the results of the different programming -
they took the best programming scripts and the best methodologies and
upgraded their programming in general. The programming that is being done
today is far more sophisticated and far more refined than what they were
working on and operationally carrying out.
Wayne Morris:
What special significance do twins have for Mengele?
Fritz Springmeier:
If you are going to do a scientific experiment, you know you have need of a
control group (subject). How do you get a control group for experimentation
on humans? You need twins, and you need thousands of them. Mengele
experimented on three thousand twins - that was one of the "benefits" of
being within the Nazi concentration camp system. As adults and children
came through Auschwitz, he had his subordinates indicate which of them were
identical twins. Most of the twins that he worked on died because he was
beyond sadistic. He was also developing methods on how to bond people and
he was learning how to artificially bond people. I had mentioned earlier
how Cisco had been teamed with three other people who also escaped from the
Illuminati. They were all "twinned" together, they had artificial twinning
done to them.
Wayne Morris:
Is it similar to what you were describing before about the "mirroring"?
Fritz Springmeier:
The twinning incorporates all of the 12 sciences of mind control - it is
pretty sophisticated in itself.
Wayne Morris:
To your awareness, did the German Nazis use mind control operatives within
WWII?
Fritz Springmeier:
Oh yes. They were using them since the early thirties. The Germans and the
British both were creating multiples for intelligence work, assassination,
and so forth. Prior to the outbreak of WWII, the Nazis were foresighted,
and brought Germans to the USA who were trained multiple personalities.
They created a settlement of them in Upper New York State. That group of
people continues to live there as a group. These multiples who were brought
into our country had alters that were programmed to assassinate by sticking
picks into people (key places in the body) and things like that. They
created this settlement with the idea that if Germany ever would manage to
defeat the USA, that these people would be in place to help them.
Wayne Morris:
Is there any indication that the USA government had used mind controlled
operatives in WWII?
Fritz Springmeier:
I have not found any indication that they used programmed multiples, but
remember that the leadership of our country was in the hands of the
Illuminati down through our history. To a large degree our Presidents are
related to each other. A lot of people don't realize how related they are.
Ulysses S. Grant, the 18th President, was related to Franklin Deleno
Roosevelt. The Deleno family is an ancient aristocratic family that
originates in Venice. Ulysses Grant was related via the Deleno family. His
greatgrandmother was Susannah Deleno. Grant was also from the Collins
family. In one of my videotapes, I go into the Grant family and how they
tie in with the Illuminati. One of the reasons I do that is because Cisco
is a descendant of the Ulysses Grant bloodline, a descendant of the Collins
bloodline. This was her ticket into the Illuminati.
Many of our presidents tie back into these Illuminati bloodlines, more than
people realize. There were multiple personalities in our government during
WWII. But it wasn't until Mengele came over that the Illuminati had
somebody with the scientific sophistication to really get into
scientifically programs. The &quot;benefit" we received from Mengele and
Operation Paperclip was advancing our government's knowledge of how to
program innocent children.
Wayne Morris:
I would like to change the topic a little bit. How has popular culture been
used for programming, and why has it been used?
Fritz Springmeier:
There are different levels that you lock a person into and control. One is
to control their milieu, their environment. It is extremely difficult for
me to talk about all of these issues. They build a person's frame of
reference from the time they were little. I ask people, "who built your
frame of reference? who built your world view?" From the time you were
little, establishment groups - churches, schools, and so forth - have been
steering your education so there isn't a frame of reference for people to
hang the information I would like to give them. If you don't have a frame
of reference to understand any of this information, it is hard to break
through of the control. By controlling information and what society does,
they steer society as a whole. The schools are used, entertainment,
Hollywood, everything is used. The programming a person will receive will
use the items of everyday life to control them. For instance, Cisco was
taught to smoke as a little child by her father who was her programmer, her
master. With every puff, she was to think about how much he loved her, and
then when she exhaled, she was also to think a programming thought. So the
very act of smoking reinforced the mind control. They will take buildings
in the area the mind control lives in and they will use those to reinforce
the programming. They will use many common items from the slaves' everyday
lives to reinforce the programming messages that have been layered.
Wayne Morris:
Maybe we can talk about one film that seems to come up in a lot of
survivors' programming - that's 'The Wizard of Oz'. How has that been used?

Fritz Springmeier:
It is one of the standard programming scripts that has been used. A lot of
people don't realize that Frank Baum actually wrote 14 Wizard of Oz books -
The Tin Woodsman of Oz, The Land of Oz, Glinda of Oz, Ozma of Oz. Actually
the books were used more in the programming than the movie. If one goes
through and looks at the books, and I extracted some of the programming
scripts and put them in the Volume 2 book so people could see how Frank
Baum's books, whether they were specifically written for mind control or
not, apparently fit in beautifully with creating mind control scripts. The
movie then would reinforce the scripts that were put in.
Wayne Morris:
Would these scripts be used mainly for manipulating the reality of the
identities being programmed?
Fritz Springmeier:
Most of the personalities that are created within a mind controlled slave,
do not live in reality. They live in a fictional world. They work off
scripts. For instance if I was going to have a particular personality pick
up drugs, they may hypnotically see the person handing them the bag of
drugs as The White Rabbit and they might see the bag as some treats or
something. They live in a totally fictional world and since these
personalities only hold the body at isolated points in time, they don't
have any cohesive life in which to challenge the hypnotic programming
script they have been given. They live their entire lives in trance. These
scripts are very important to use to control the personalities that live in
their fictional world.
Wayne Morris:
Can you give some other examples of popular culture that have been used for
programming?
Fritz Springmeier:
Batman, Bewitched, Disney movies. One of the very improtant Disney movies
was "Fantasia" and in my recent book, "Deeper Insights" I have eleven pages
where I go through minute by minute, scene by scene, in the movie
"Fantasia" and show how Fantasia was created and used to be a programming
foundation. Star Wars movies, My Fair Lady which was used in the finishing
schools for slaves, Stephen King horror movies are used, Startrek, The Love
Boat has been used for the mind control of their cruise prostitutes, E.T. -
alien programming of their slaves, Alice in Wonderland.
Wayne Morris:
All of these are really prominent in our culture and I am wondering what
the effect is on someone who has been programmed if they see these movies
again on television or in video rental, or in a movie theatre?
Fritz Springmeier:
It just locks in the control and emphasizes the hopelessness. For a mind
controlled slave who is living in a whole culture that is controlled by
these people, why would their mind ever think of trying to get free? Their
spirits were broken when they were children, and everywhere they look they
see the control and the programming.
Wayne Morris:
This isn't to say that some of these tv programs or films have been
deliberately made with mind control in mind, but that they have been used
by the programmers?
Fritz Springmeier:
Deliberate is more accurate.
Wayne Morris:
So some of these expressions of culture have been deliberately created.
Have you looked into the backgrounds of some of the people involved in
producing them?
Fritz Springmeier:
Ducktail Cartoons which is put on by Disney contains deliberate triggers
for the children. Deliberate triggers in the advertisements; deliberate
messages and codes. In "Deeper Insights" I spend about fifty pages going
into Disney, who Disney was, what they did behind the scenes, what the
movies are all about. Look at "Beauty and the Beast" you will see an
enchanted ____clock, or you will see the character Doorknob - protrayed as
a person. That's used in the cartoon, "Alice in Wonderland". Those
particular sections will be seen by an alter in a person's system, and the
mind will be made to believe that they were a doorknob. These are
specifically, creatively put into the films for those reasons.
Wayne Morris:
Some of these alters that are created are not even animals or people, they
can be inanimate objects.
Fritz Springmeier:
Only a few of the front alters of an alter system will realize that they
are human.
Wayne Morris:
You have gone into in the book that I have, "The Illuminati Formula ..."
quite a bit about Star Trek. What have you learned about the technical
manuals published about Star Trek?
Fritz Springmeier:
I have observed programmed multiples - some that have been untreated, and
some that have been untreated - who are totally obsessed with everything
involved with Star Trek. A former deprogramming assistant gave me
information on the Star Trek programming and I could sit and confirm it by
my own observations of multiples. Over the years a number of highly
technical manuals on Star Trek eequipment and themes have been published.
When you look at these manuals - the best way of explaining all the money
and time that was spent to develop these complex manuals is that they are
serving a mind control purpose. Knowing how the programming is put in, I
know why they were done a certain way.
Boeing Plant in Seattle has a lot of tunnels underneath it, and some of
those tunnels are used for programming. Someone who worked at Boeing was
telling me how workers would, on a normal day it was standard for them to
sneak off to go into the underground tunnels and watch Star Trek movies. I
thought that was interesting.
Wayne Morris:
Can you describe the technical manuals and the level of technical detail
that they went into?
Fritz Springmeier:
They have maps of the universe. Where a map of the Milky Way could be used
is when you are splintering the mind of a victim and you are looking for
some kind of a pattern to restructure it, you would use something like a
galaxy map to recreate their mind. You have star clusters, planets. When
you wanted to have a whole group of alters, personalities that would only
relate to themselves, you could put them on one planet and the only way
alters could communicate from one "planet" to another would be through some
type of "beam me up" type of thing. When you were being "beamed", you would
actually be dissociated and going into trance.
And you have different locomotion devices that are built into the system
which are actually methods for the mind going into dissociation. When you
are electroshocking someone, and a flash of light is hitting them at the
same time you are applying electroshock, you can tell the person that they
are travelling through space, or who knows what, different scripts can be
built in.
The technical manuals will have section indexes and when they structure the
mind controlled slaves they build sections and those sections are coded and
you will find the technical manuals have number codes, colour codes which
is another aspect of the mind control all the way through. I talked about
the 13x13x13 grid earlier within Cisco's system. If you want to add another
dimension to your cube, then you add colour coding for certain alters.
Each of your alters typically will receive a colour code and that ties back
in to computers that are built within their minds. These computers are
built by taking dissociated parts of the mind and making them into a
computer - computers that control each section - and then those computers
are in turn controlled by deeper computers. It's very complex but you can
certainly see when you look at the technical manuals put together for the
Star Trek theme that they dovetail perfectly with what the programming
needs are.
Wayne Morris:
These things are purportedly just paraphenalia items for a very limited
market of hardcore Trekkies - the price tag seems to be incongruent with
the amount of work that has gone into making them.
Fritz Springmeier:
Exactly. That was my thought. My Dad was an engineer and I have looked over
a lot of drafting projects. I worked for the Federal Highway Administration
for a while so I know the type of engineering work that would go into
building a highway, and I am just amazed at the technical detail,
engineering, graphics and everything that goes into these technical manuals
for something that is a "fiction", a movie ... we are not talking about
something that is real life.
Wayne Morris:
Since we are talking about movies, I would like to ask you what has
Hollywood's involvement been in mind control slavery?
Fritz Springmeier:
The Illuminati and the Mob have controlled Hollywood. Another aspect of
this is that a lot of your slaves are actors, eg. Roseanne Barr, who I
mentioned earlier; Madonna; Marilyn Monroe; each of these women was a
programmed multiple. You have a lot of slaves who are acting for them. One
of the benefits of having programmed multiples is the way their minds have
been structured. Some of them are very good at memorizing scripts or
getting into fictional roles. As I mentioned earlier, some of the movies,
like "Fantasia" - Disneyland itself was a programming centre. It was more
than their just putting out movies that were for programming, but they
actually created a lot of these movies with the codes. Another one I didn't
mention is "I Dream of Jeannie" - which is the Delta alter "Jeannie"
programming with the trigger "your wish is my command."
Another aspect of Hollywood that comes in here - there are fictional
movies, at least they purport to be fictional movies, which are actually
showing, amazingly, top secret Illuminati ceremonies and Illuminati
history, methods. It's really blown me away to watch some of these things.
"Hellraiser 3" shows gatekeepers. Watch "Bell, Book and Candle" or "Curse
of the Voodoo". Not only do they show Illuminati ceremonies, but some of
these movies actually show the mind control. I would recommend that the
listeners, if they wanted to learn more, watch the Charles Bronson movie,
"Telethon", or you could watch "The Manchurian Candidate" or "Videodrome",
"Labyrinth." I go into explaining how "Labyrinth" is a programming script
in the Volume 2 book. "Transfer 2", "Attack of the Robots", "Attack of the
Puppet People" ... we could go on and on. Jane Fonda's "The Point of No
Return" - that connects in with the OTO. That's one of the occult fronts of
the very high-up, powerful organizations involved with the Illuminati.
Wayne Morris:
What do you think is the purpose of having mind control slaves in the
Hollywood industry in terms of the impact on the public? What are they
trying to accomplish with these films, and are they manipulating these
actors in some way to have some effect on the public?
Fritz Springmeier:
There is manipulation in many different ways. I guess one thing I could say
that builds upon your last question and also answers your current question,
is the late Anton Lavey, for instance, who was the head of the Church of
Satan. He was a mind control programmer and he was very close with
Hollywood. By using him in Hollywood as an advisor to movies, and in other
ways (he tied in with some underground film-making too) it gave him
legitimacy. Another person who also connected in some with Hollywood, who
was also connected with Anton Lavey, was Michael Aquino who connected in
with military intelligence. He was another programmer and he was in charge
of another Satanic organization, The Temple of Set.
Wayne Morris:
Which is an offshoot of Anton Lavey's Church of Satan ...
Fritz Springmeier:
Aquino was one of Lavey's henchmen until he formed his own organization.
Wayne Morris:
And Michael Aquino has been implicated in the Presidio daycare child abuse
scandal as well ...
Fritz Springmeier:
A very disgusting person like the rest of these programmers. Another tie-in
here with Hollywood is Kenneth Anger who was a member of Lavey's group, and
he was a film-maker. He is also someone who was infatuated with Aleister
Crowley. Kenneth Anger danced with Shirley Temple when he was a child, and
Shirley Temple as you know ties in with Walt Disney, and with the mind
control too. I believe she was a victim. There is something they do to the
children, it's called brainstem scarring and when they scar the brainstem
they create photographic memory. That's a whole other subject, but I
believe that this child prodigy, Shirley Temple, was also one of their mind
control victims. That was prior to WWII. She was, I believe, a multiple.
Wayne Morris:
I wonder if you could just explain briefly how you think that works in
terms of damaging the brainstem and how that would affect these memory
abilities ...
Fritz Springmeier:
An analogy would be like when somebody does weightlifting - the idea of
lifting weights is that you are destroying the muscles and the body
overcompensates for the destruction and builds the muscles bigger next time
around, like callouses. You damage your skin until your body
overcompensates and creates callouses. When your brainstem is
electronically scarred, the body overcompensates and rebuilds the brainstem
in such a way that you have a photographic memory. So then if you scar
somebody's brainstem to start with, and then you traumatize them so the
mind splits into multiple personalities, each of those personalities
generally takes on the characteristics of its predecessor and has a
photographic memory.
Wayne Morris:
It seems that would be very useful in terms of some of the ways operatives
are utilized, eg. for espionage. Was that a common technique used in the
conditioning, scarring of the brainstem, photographic memory?
Fritz Springmeier:
It is now. During the 1930's when they were creating multiples, they knew
that trauma itself helped mental abilities, so there were a lot of just
scientists, who weren't part of the Illuminati who were traumatizing their
kids to improve their thinking abilities. It's really a warped way of
thinking, but there is some efficacy to the methodology.
Wayne Morris:
Just to jump back to the culture industries, and how they have been
involved, how has the music industry been involved in mind control?
Fritz Springmeier:
Good question. That takes us back to WWII when first the UK, then Canada,
then our country was totally mobilized for the war effort, and they
mobilized Hollywood for the war effort. The US military hired all these
entertainers for the USO shows - it was placed under the Special Services
Division of the Army. They brought in people like Bob Hope who was working
for MI-6. Bob Hope is very skilled with mind control. You had earlier asked
me if the USA was using programmed multiples? The USA was using mind
control during WWII, but not the type of programmed multiplicity that
Mengele developed. But during WWII, they were using the USO magicians to
pass coded messages to the troops. To say and do things for their
intelligence work. What group of people can move from one military unit to
another without causing suspicion of the enemy? Entertainers. They used
them for US and British intelligence.
Wayne Morris:
So they would be used to pass messages to people in the know ...
Fritz Springmeier:
Right. Bob Hope was an intelligence operative for British Intelligence. He
was used in the USO a lot. The USO created at least 200 bands. A lot of the
bands we know of now Guy Lombardo, Lawrence Welk, Sam Donahue - these were
all created in the USO program. When the USO program ceased at the end of
WWII, you had this whole music industry that was basically created by the
Intelligence organizations, and it was heavily salted with their
intelligence operatives. It was a natural thing for the CIA - created out
of the OSS - and the NSA to continue to use the music industry as it had
been used in WWII for intelligence purposes. Our entire music industry here
in the USA is actually an intelligence front for the Illuminati.
Wayne Morris:
Hmm. I know you have written specifically about the country music industry.
I wonder if you could talk about that industry's involvement.
Fritz Springmeier:
I am not trying to single out country and western music. Some people might
think Fritz has it in for country and western music - no, I actually enjoy
a lot of that music, so I don't have anything against that particular
brand, or that particular industry. I mean, the rock and roll music
industry is also heavily used and ties in with the mind control too. A lot
of the songs in country and western music are deliberately written for
programming, but the songs evoke thoughts of god, country - so you have
your front there. You have to understand how these people work. They try to
play upon things that we get kneejerk reactions to. If I sing a song about
god, how can anybody accuse me of being bad? If I sing patriotic songs, how
can anyone accuse me of not being a good person? I sing about god and
country ...
You look at the front they create, and then they do what they want to
behind that front. The whole C&W industry is just part and parcel of the
mind control, and of drug running. Because these C&W singers travel from
one city to another, they are the perfect vehicles for moving drugs. They
are a very important part of the Illuminati drug running.
Wayne Morris:
In your book you have alleged a lot of the leading C&W figures are involved
in this activity?
Fritz Springmeier:
Yeah, some of them are victims of the mind control; some are abusers of the
mind control; some of them are programmers. One of the worst mind control
programmers within the industry is Jerry Lee Lewis. He has a very bad
reputation. He is infamous among victims of mind control for being an
extremely sadistic programmer. When slaves manage to escape, they are very
often sent to Jerry Lee Lewis and his cousin, a minister, and also ties in
with this as a programmed multiple.
Wayne Morris:
Do you feel that the use of popular culture and these entertainment
industries serves another purpose in terms of preconditioning society as a
whole, or manipulating social beliefs?
Fritz Springmeier:
Oh yeah, definitely. The whole long-range goal of this, and when I say
long-range, it's not going to take them long to get us there at the rate
they are going - the end goal of all of this is to eventually create an
entire planet of mind controlled slaves that can be controlled by one super
computer. They are manipulating our thoughts and our attitudes, and
steering us, herding us (they consider us animals - the Illuminati consider
themselves god, god men and us to be the animals) they are herding us in
the direction they want to us to go. So yeah, the music is definitely
playing a role in dehumanizing us, conditioning us, as well as a lot of
mind control triggers and messages are passed via the singing. In the
Volume 2 book and in the "Deeper Insights" book, I spend quite a few pages
going into the codes and the triggers, and I spend several pages explaining
what the different songs that are played over the radio - how they are used
in triggering mind controlled slaves.
Wayne Morris:
Again, I guess it's part of having a culture permeated with the kind of
triggers that just reinforces the programming for the victims.
Fritz Springmeier:
Right. And if they are going to have their programmed slaves go to a
ritual, there is one song, "A Heartache Tonight", which will be played over
some radio stations. And if I am a mind controlled slave, and it's Friday
night, and I hear that song over the radio, I may be programmed to switch
alters and go to a pre-arranged location where I am picked up or whatever,
and participate in a satanic sabbat. They are able to use the music
industry in a whole number of ways.
Wayne Morris:
To you knowledge, Fritz, what groups are involved currently in using mind
control slavery?
Fritz Springmeier:
Currently, mind controlled slaves are used by intelligence organizations;
occult groups; military groups; big and small religious groups. Many
various criminals who are in each of these groups network together and in
fact, their own word to describe themselves is "The Network". If we are a
little bit more specific about what groups - I was giving you the broad,
general categories. Examples within the US military are Delta Forces, First
Earth Battalion, are mind controlled units. Then you've got mind controlled
slaves scattered throughout all of the regular branches. Within your
intelligence organizations some of the big offenders are MI-6 and of course
their P-4 section, and Naval Intelligence which is ONI. A lot of government
organizations like Bureau of Narcotics, FBI, NASA. When we look at what
kind of occult groups are using this trauma-based total mind control you
will see the KKK, Neo-Nazis, OTO. You will see groups like the Freemasons
and the Oddfellows. Then you get more hardcore occult groups like the
Church of Satan, the Children of Lucifer, Society of the Dark Lily.
Religions? You've got your smaller religions like this group that was so
interested in Halle Boppe to the extent they committed suicide. Small
groups like that. According to the information I have, David Koresh and his
leaders were mind controlled slaves who were conducting group control
methods over their Branch Davidian group. You've got your small groups like
this clear up to your large groups like the Catholic Church, the Mormon
Church, and the Charismatic Movement.
Wayne Morris:
Some of the branches of the military you mentioned - the Delta Forces and
the First Earth Battalion - are you saying that all of the people involved
in these forces are mind controlled?
Fritz Springmeier:
Within Delta Forces, 100% of them are. Within the First Earth Battalion,
from what I understand, that could also be 100% of its units are under mind
control. Within the Army - the Army has special task groups that - for
instance - I am sorry to say, but unfortunately it's true - the US Army has
select squads of assassins that travel even around the USA and eliminate
people. From my inside information on that, these squads are not entirely
made up of mind controlled slaves - they have a variety of control methods
over these types. I guess what I am saying is, that although you may find a
smattering of mind controlled slaves used in various branches of the
military, those first two that I mentioned are the only ones that I know of
that are entirely made up of mind controlled robots.
Wayne Morris:
These military operatives - would they have been subjected to the
trauma-based conditioning from childhood?
Fritz Springmeier:
Yes. That's what I am talking about.
Wayne Morris:
How typically do people who end up in these forces get introduced to the
mind control? Through their families?
Fritz Springmeier:
Well these are victims of mind control that would have been placed under
mind control in childhood.
Wayne Morris:
Typically would they be from military families?
Fritz Springmeier:
They would be from a wide variety. If you have looked at the way the
military does things, there is a lot of what they call "military brats" -
the children of military men that then are put into positions of
responsibility.
Wayne Morris:
To your awareness, has the corporate world used mind control in any way?
Fritz Springmeier:
Yes, the corporate world does use mind controlled slaves. Several examples
that pop immediately into my mind are ARCO - some of your listeners may
have read "Angels don't play this HAARP" by Begich and Manning. If they
haven't, I recommend the book. You will read quite a bit about ARCO which
did all kinds of HAARP research. ARCO did a lot of research and the branch
of ARCO which is APPI held some of the patents. They also worked with E
Systems which held some of the patents for HAARP research. ARCO is one of
the worst offenders, at least in terms of what I have discovered from
victims of mind control that I have been in contact with. They are one of
the worst, so that probably explains why they were given a highly sensitive
project like HAARP.
Another company that was given sensitive work to do was Gunderson. Here in
Portland Gunderson Steel has been making a large number of special order
rail cars which have shackles and cupolas for guards. It is a very
sensitive secret project which has been farmed out to 11 major railcar
producers. Gunderson is one of these.
And these railcars are to be used to transport civilians to all these
already-built concentration camps across America. Gunderson is another one
of these companies that uses mind control slaves. I am speaking with
firsthand knowledge about that because I have spoken with some of the
programmed multiples that work at Gunderson.
Another corporation that comes to mind is a big, corporate conglomerate -
Disney, Capital Cities, ABC - the three of them went together and made
themselves a nice, big corporate conglomerate. They produce porn and they
do some other activities with the programmed multiple slaves.
Wayne Morris:
Just getting back to ARCO, we are actually going to be interviewing Nick
Begitch in a future show and talking about the HAARP project in particular.
I understand there are mind control elements to that project in particular.
The information you found is in addition to that - they have been using
mind controlled, trauma-based conditioned slaves as well?
Fritz Springmeier
Right. His book doesn't talk about mind controlled slaves being used by
ARCO - his book is about this technology that they are installing in
Alaska. It is a Star Wars-type technology that works in the atmosphere and
manipulates things electronically - electromagnetic radiation.
Wayne Morris:
Yeah. It's a huge antenna array that shoots high frequency energy into the
ionosphere.
Fritz Springmeier
Besides communicating with satellites, it can actually change the weather.
It can also manipulate the way people think in a geographical area that has
been hit by its electromagnetic radiation.
Wayne Morris:
One of the side effects apparently is extra low frequency energy that is
reflected back to earth which is the frequency that our brain operates on.
What typically would these companies use mind controlled slaves for?
Fritz Springmeier
Sensitive projects that have to be kept under wraps by the New World Order.
The production of railcars to haul civilians to concentration camps. Our
government has kept the concentration camp project pretty low key.
Wayne Morris:
So these people would be used to work on these projects and the company
ensuring that they don't talk about it outside.
You spoke of the Illuminati being an extension of mystery religions and I
wonder if you could tell our listeners what were the mystery religions, and
what was their role in history?
Fritz Springmeier
You have asked two questions. One of the people who is well worth quoting
is Manley P. Hall. He is both a Grand Master Illuminati and a Grand Master
in the Freemasons. In his book, "The Secret Teachings of All Ages", he said
that the mystery religions were the channel through which the light to
mankind was disseminated. (p.29) The mystery religions claimed to the
ancient world that they had revelation knowledge that would help enlighten
and save people. They claimed that by joining them, and then going through
the secret rituals, that you would elevate yourself. They claimed that you
would become divine, or that you would reunite with your divine self if you
went through the rituals and got to the highest, deepest levels of their
secrets. That's what they were telling people on the outside. There are a
lot of different ways to look at a phenomenon and I want to bring in a
couple of other angles. First, Swinbourne Kleimer, a high ranking Freemason
and Rosicrucian leader, said that there was a secret body that ruled and
controlled all the various ancient mystery religions in the ancient world -
Europe, Egypt, Babylon, clear over to Indian. You can read this claim in
his book "Ancient Mystic Oriental Freemasonry" on p. 84-85. I can agree
with him. What he is referring to here - the one secret body that will
control all the various mystery religions - was what we call today The
Illuminati. The Illuminati is the continuation of that secret controlling
body. Freemasonry is the outer symbology of the ancient mystery religions,
but if you want the hardcore rituals of the ancient mystery religions,
those are the ones that are performed by the Illuminati.
And what was their role in history? They played an exceptionally role in
history. If one thinks about the power that kings have, who are kings
dependent on? Kings must work through other people and they are dependent
on their advisors, and their financiers. You can't have a king going off
and making a war unless he has money, so he is depending on those
financiers. The financiers are dependent on trade and production of goods.
The mystery religions, or secret societies, had so much power because they
controlled the trade guilds with the trade secrets on how to produce the
different goods. For instance the art of making armour, or the art of
making a long bow, or the art of making a venetian war ship, or getting
closer to home - the roots of Freemasonry go back to the masonic builders
guild and the architectural knowledge to design and build a cathedral was
controlled by trade guilds which were controlled by these mystery
religions, these secret societies. You could be the king of a country, but
you were still under the control of these mystery religions and secret
societies. The man who supposedly converted the Roman Empire over to
Christianity was the head of the Mithra mystery religion. They have played
an extremely powerful and important part in history. They have controlled
the priesthood and the trade guilds. But also there are a couple of ways
they have played a continuous role in history in that they have guided
human endeavours because the Illuminati, the mystery religions, have what
they call "The Keepers of the Great Plans". That's not just my own opinion.
Manley P. Hall, the Illuminati kingpin, in at least one of his books, goes
into how the mystery religions of the great plan to bring in this great New
World Order.
Wayne Morris:
What was this great plan?
Fritz Springmeier
Part of it goes back to the idea of the Golden Age of the Millenium. That's
an important concept for me to talk about. I will be stepping on a few
people's toes here. Your Christians are really unaware of where their
concept of the millenium came from. They think that it comes from the
bible, but if they go back historically they will see that William Miller,
who started the Adventist movement and started talking about millenium, was
a high ranking Freemason. He predicted that Christ would return in 1844.
The question is, did Christ return in 1844? Most people, because we have a
limited perspective on things, would say no, he didn't. But there was a man
called Nabob who appeared in Persia, and he said I am Christ, and he
started the Bahai religion. He fulfilled William Miller's prophecy. The
Freemasons were the ones who introduced the Bahai religion to America, and
they did it through the Chicago Masonic Temple around the turn of the
century. The Bahai religion is committed to a one world government, a new
world order, and a one world religion. There was this Masonic Oriental
Order of the Magi and they were the hardcore group within the Chicago
Masonic Temple who started the Bahai religion in this country. These are
the kinds of things that I tried to expose so that people see how this all
interconnects.
A very brilliant man, James H. Billington, who was the librarian of the
Library of Congress, wrote a book, "Fire in the Minds of Men" and the
Illuminati didn't realize what he was doing. He kind of blindsided. He was
a member of the Council of Foreign Relations so he as one of them. They
thought he was one of theirs. This book goes through and it talks about
where the word "revolution" came from - it came from the occult societies.
The word "revolution" which we use today to mean "armed rebellion" didn't
have that meaning in the beginning. The way it began to be used to mean
armed rebellion to overthrow the old order and establish something new, was
because occult societies, like the Freemasons who had been behind all of
the revolutions of modern history from the American Revolution on - have
all been created by the Freemasons and the Illuminati. Billington goes back
in and traces how all the revolutions were started by this occult elite.
The term revolution came from the occult idea that we were going to revolve
ourselves back to the Golden Age. There is this great quest for the Golden
Age, this millenialism. That's what communism is about. If you look at the
early founders of communism - they were trying to revolve us back through
revolution to the Golden Age that had been lost.
Wayne Morris:
What was their idea of what a Golden Age consisted of?
Fritz Springmeier
Socialized communistic type society. This is why when you read masonic
prophets, like H.G. Wells who wrote a number of books on how the New World
Order could be brought about, the Fabian Socialists, etc. who have all
these detailed plans - it's always for a socialistic, communistic type
utopia.
Wayne Morris:
But with a fascist leadership it seems ...
Fritz Springmeier
Yes. (laughs) On the surface it sounds really hunky-dory. It sounds really
great. But it ends up more like Animal Farm and George Orwell.
Wayne Morris:
I would also like to talk about what the relation of intelligence groups
such as the CIA, the DIA and the MI-6 is to the Illuminati.
Fritz Springmeier
There's a very close relationship. You will notice with MI-6, in the first
few decades of their existence (they came into existence at the turn of the
century), they hired only women who came from elite Illuminati families. If
you were a female working with MI-6, you were referred to as Queenie, and
they really were Illuminati queens. We go back and look at who set up these
organizations, who runs these organizations. Look at the CIA for instance.
People that understand what the Council for Foreign Relations is all about
and how that's an Illuminati front will understand better what I am talking
about. You look at Dulles, McCone, Helms, Slesinger, Bush, Turner, Casey -
you just go down your list of directors of the CIA - and they were members
of the Council for Foreign Relations. Not only that, but they were members
of other organizations that are Illuminati fronts. Turner was a Rhodes
scholar which is an entry point for Illuminati. The Astors helped found the
Rhodes scholars. Casey and McCone - both of whom were Knights of Malta.
Look at the membership of the Knights of Malta, 50% black nobility. I am
talking about black in the context of the black (guelph) European
aristocratic bloodlines - the black (.....s) were a very powerful bloodline
that have controlled Europe for many centuries. General Walter Bedell Smith
was head of the CIA - from 1950 to 1953 - working in US intelligence - he
was one of the co-founders of the Bilderbergers. Prince Bernhardt
(Illuminati) was the Chairman of the original Bilderbergers. One of the
late Chairs was Peter Rupert (Lord Carrington) was Order of St. John which
is the Protestant version of the Knights of Malta. He was a director of a
number of the Rothschild organizations like the Rio Tinto Zinc Corporation.
He was a member of the Order of the Garter, which is very significant; and
a member of the Order of Osiris. The Order of the Garter is one of the
primary organizations which was given the responsibility to be in charge of
the plans to bring in the New World Order by the Illuminati, and to give
continuity from one generation to another. The Order of the Garter is
extremely powerful. Your coat of arms etc. is all controlled by the Order
of the Garter which is set up in covens of 13, groups of 13. If you have
ever looked at heraldry you will know how important this is. The
Bilderbergers is also set up in groups of 13, the inner committee is 13.
Wayne Morris:
Henry Kissinger is a prominent member of the Bilderbergers. What is his
involvement in that group, to your awareness?
Fritz Springmeier
I don't know that he is a member himself, but he is a member of MI-6, he
has been a member of P2 Freemasonry, involved with a lot of things. He is a
big player for them to implement their agenda. I do not know whether he's
an actual member within the Illuminati or not, but he has sure been a big
player. In fact one day I listened to Henry Kissinger speaking and he said,
"We will get a New World Order. We may not get it in our generation, but if
we do not get it in our generation, we will get it in the next generation."
In other words they are just going to keep trying. That's what the Order of
the Garter has been assigned to do. When we look at these different
intelligence groups, like the KGB and the CIA, we think we are looking at
two groups that are fighting a covert war against each other. However that
is only what we are meant to see.
There is a recent book by a Colonel Corsell, "Day After Roswell". His book
is eye opening in many ways, in fact it may be hard to get after a little
while. There seems to be a movement to suppress it. In his book he talks
about how the CIA and the KGB are essentially one organization, and this
was back in the 50's. He was tailed by CIA agents even though he was a
Colonel in the US Army - he's got the CIA spying on him, trying to find out
what he is doing. He has to keep secrets from the CIA. I had an
acquaintance whose father is high up in the CIA and he said when he was a
teenager, one day his father came by and dropped a bombshell on him in that
he couldn't even understand what his father was talking about. His father
said out of the blue that the Cold War was a hoax. This teenager who had
bought into the appearances the common people are supposed to accept was
really confused. He didn't understand. He said it took him years to
understand what his father was secretly referring to.
We see these different groups and they appear to be different teams. But
it's sort of like coming up to a football field and seeing two teams
playing each other - you can't automatically assume they are not from the
same school. It may be a scrimmage or an intervarsity game. You will see
the hidden hand of the Illuminati in the creation of both the CIA and the
KGB. In MI-6 you will see Lord Victor Rothschild running things; Admiral
Sir Hugh Sinclair - the Sinclairs are one of these families. MI-5, which is
internal security for Britain - their first Director General for many years
was Major General Sir Vern Keele. He was a Freemason, and a number of other
Director Generals of MI-5 have also been Freemasons and also have been tied
to these other organizations. The Director of MI-5 during WWII was Knights
of Grace of St. John. You could go on and on showing the overlapping
connections.
If you look at Allen Dulles who was the Director of the CIA from 1953-1961
you will see his role with Hitler prior to WWII, working with the
international financiers - the bankers of these Illuminati kingpins. You
will see his connections to the elite.
Wayne Morris:
And certainly the information about the CIA facilitating the flight of Nazi
war criminals to North America - Dulles was involved in that.
Fritz Springmeier
Dulles was the man the Illuminati used to inform Hitler that the financiers
would support him in his bid for power. He was the guy who brought the good
news to Hitler ... hey, you can go for it, we will finance you.
Wayne Morris:
I would like to talk about another CIA director who was actually recently
in Toronto accepting an Honorary Degree at the University of Toronto -
George Bush. I wondered if you could talk about his affiliation with Skull
& Bones ...
Fritz Springmeier
Skull & Bones is an entry point into the Illuminati. Researchers have
noticed the Skull & Bones, but there are a lot of other organizations which
are entry points. Rhodes Scholars, a group in Oxford, there are number of
different fraternal organizations. Skull & Bones is not the only one - but
that's the one George Bush joined. There is also Scroll & Key, Rezilius,
and some other fraternal organizations. One of the things George Bush did
in his initiation ceremony for Skull & Bones was to lie in manure and
recount all of his sexual exploits.
Wayne Morris:
I understand that's an initiation ritual for all members of Skull & Bones.
Fritz Springmeier
Right.
Wayne Morris:
You mentioned at the top of the interview that George Bush was related to
some royal family - is that the House of Windsor?
Fritz Springmeier:
He is a distant relative of Prince Charles and Queen Elizabeth. It's a
distant relationship.
Wayne Morris:
In your opinion, what has George Bush's role been in attempting to
implement a global government?
Fritz Springmeier:
He's been a criminal, and he has provided leadership for criminal activity.
He's been involved with creating wars, with drug running, with pornography
and mind control.
Wayne Morris:
Are you aware of any information that George Bush is also a pedophile?
Fritz Springmeier:
Oh yeah. Cathy O'Brien for instance, who I have visited with, her daughter
spent time with George Bush and other people that are familiar with the
mind control and what's going on have also said that the man was a
pedophile.
Wayne Morris:
Do you think that people in groups trying to bring about global control are
planning a take-over attempt at a certain point in time, or do you think
they will continue this New World Order more gradually as they have been
doing through expanded economic blocks and so forth?
Fritz Springmeier:
It's a combination of gradual, spiced with some cataclysmic events. >From
the vantage point of being a planner, and having the actual plans and
details, you would see that things are being implemented on a continuous
basis. For instance, I have mentioned previously that the Panama Canal and
Suez Canal were planned by the Illuminati back around 1800 if not before.
Those were things they wanted to implement on the way to a New World Order.

When you see cataclysmic events occur, let's say there is a nuclear
exchange or aliens all of a sudden arrive, they seem cataclysmic and
instantaneous to those of us who are the common people. But the planning
for these events has gone on for a long time. So yes, it will be gradual,
if you are looking at the implementation of these plans - but the
appearance of some of these things will be rather cataclysmic. In order to
bring in the New World Order as they would like to implement it, they want
us to ask them to bring in what they want. So for instance in WWII when the
Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour, the Americans wanted to give away their
freedoms to make their government more powerful. They will be implementing
things that will cause us to ask us to do what they want to do.
Wayne Morris:
What kinds of scenarios are possible?
Fritz Springmeier:
For instance in Australia - where this madman went in and he gunned down a
lot of innocent people - children and families - boy - right after that
they ramrodded through gun legislation and approximately half a million
weapons were turned in without a fight by the Australians because of this
horrendous massacre that took place. The same things are going to happen in
this country and on this surface it's going to appear like this is just a
madman who flipped out and he gunned down a lot of people. But from "their"
vantage-point, they have spent a lot of years planning and programming.
Wayne Morris:
And one could argue that it has already started to happen in terms of
things like the Oklahoma City bombing and bringing in the counter-terrorism
bill immediately after.
Fritz Springmeier:
Yes. Exactly. I would say yes to both aspects. It will be both gradual and
it will have a cataclysmic impact.
Wayne Morris:
How, in your opinion, could mind control be used in one of these scenarios
to create cataclysmic events?
Fritz Springmeier:
I use the term "New World Order" but you could also use "World Order"
because the same people who are bringing in the new world order have
actually been controlling the world all along. It's really not "new" at all
- it's just going into a more intense phase where the control is going to
be more intense, and the mind control is going to be more pervasive and
powerful. These people have been controlling things from behind the scenes
for a long time. We go back and look at the power the British Empire had
and the power that the French Empire had - and you ask yourself, well who
was running the British Empire and the French Empire? And you see the same
people, the same families. I had mentioned earlier how many American
presidents were related and how we have really been controlled by these
oligarchal families here in the USA.
Wayne Morris:
How would mind control possibly be used in a take-over scenario?
Fritz Springmeier:
One way that it could be used is if people look at the Charles Bronson
movie, "Telethon", you will see the end result of this mind control. A
housewife is called, given a fairy-tale ditty, and she goes out and blows
up a military installation. There are a lot of people with programming to
do acts of sabotage and assassination.
There are a lot of things that have to be accomplished. The weakest link in
the chain is going to bust - and in order to implement all of these things
from behind the scenes - you have to have mind controlled people salted in
at all different levels to ensure that nobody reveals the secrets, that
people do the job they are supposed to, that people forget the things they
are supposed to forget. For instance banking - in the last few years a lot
of banks have gone bankrupt. That has been very quietly covered over by
bank mergers. A bank goes belly-up - they will bring in a bigger bank and
swallow it up and call it a merger instead of a bankruptcy. How do they
keep these things secret? I know some programmed multiples personally
working in the banking system, and I do not know the full extent of what
these people are used for, I can only speculate. They are definitely using
mind controlled slaves within the banking system to hide their
manipulations.
Wayne Morris:
Quite a number of victims of mind control have spoken about end-times
programming. What can you tell us about that?
Fritz Springmeier:
The end-times programming refers to programming geared to bringing in New
World Order and the reign of the anti-christ. It has a lot of colour
programming - the list of people who are to be dealt with includes a red
list comprised of those who are anti-new-world-order opposition leaders who
are to be executed about two weeks before martial law. The blue list are
people who are against what is being done, but they are going to attempt to
program them, arrest them to see if they can correct their thinking.
Probably a lot of them will be killed in the midst of reprogramming. The
final list, the yellow list, is people who will be rounded up for
re-education camps after martial law.
In the programming there are yellow flags at half-mast; yellow dog on run;
blue fish at home; and I know this from work with mind control victims.
Colour codes are used because they will be using a lot of mind control
slaves, including foreign troops (eg. Russians) to implement these things.
It is easier to use colour coding. Things will be implemented with
activation codes which also use colour codes, eg. blue ray, red ray, purple
ray, green ray. Those will go to team leaders. If the listeners are
familiar with Amway they understand uplines and downlines - a team leader
can have perhaps four people under him - he calls them - each of them calls
four people. Those will be colour-coded. Each one of the eg. four will have
a colour (blue ray, red ray, purple ray, green ray). And then some of the
sites are colour coded. Internally within the minds of the slaves, some of
them have internal crystals -- these crystals are timed -- they could also
be rocks -- they are timed to explode or release certain programming at a
certain point in time. These crystals will have colour codes as well.
If the therapist begins getting into end-time programming, that's one of
the things they are going to notice. They are also going to notice
mountain-tops are used quite a lot for meeting place or significant places.
A lot of international cooperation is involved in their plans and
programming. Common news events are often-times triggers -- eg. Lady Diana
dying -- Princess Di's death caused certain mind control slaves to trigger
off that news event.
End times programming also involves (because of the ushering in of the
reign of the anti-christ) demonology involved -- the Demon "Purson"
involved with the programming. His job is the Revelator of the anti-christ.
He will know a victim's system. You will see "Apollo" -- Son of Apollo is
the anti-christ -- so Apollo is the father of the anti-christ. You will see
Escolapius (sp) - he is the Demon of healing. You see a lot of healing
going on in the Charismatic Movement -- some of the ministers in this
Movement are actually satanists and I know from eye witnesses that in
secret they carry out satanic rituals where they attempt to gain the power
of Escolapius which is a demonic healing power. When they go into these
churches they use mind control and this demonic healing power to heal
Christians and then tell people "God healed you". They don't state to them
which god ...
Another aspect that is characteristic to the end-times programming is the
involvement of the aliens. A lot of alien programming, plans with aliens,
and a whole series of programming categories related to catastrophes. I am
now speaking to therapists - when you get into the part of the system that
is involved with end-times catastrophes, you will get into working with
_____ alters. And another area involves a lot of computer control of
people. And I am still only in the beginning of understanding all of this.
There is an actual computer at 666 Connecticut Avenue in Washington, DC
which is called the Janus 2 computer. When victims start spewing out their
programming they start talking about the Janus coding which has something
to do with tracking and reprogramming, and ties in with computers.
Then there is the Ambassador coding (sub-codes include setting fires;
suicide; doing an act of violence against somebody). Emperor coding. Morse
coding.
Wayne Morris:
What in a general sense would they be programmed to do.
Fritz Springmeier:
We are not talking about just running drugs or prostitution -- we are
talking about control of society as a whole. One of the scarier options
they have is to bring in a mock alien invasion. They will have flying
saucers with aliens arrive. Because they control so many different aspects
of society, even though a number of people like myself would say "beware of
this, beware of that" we would be drowned out by this orchestra of people
in different sectors of society (congressmen, newsmen, religious leaders)
saying whatever the plan is for them to say. Of course there will be
controlled opposition. There will be a few people saying, "I distrust these
aliens, or this agenda, or what the government is doing" but they will be
controlled opposition who will gather all the opposition to what they want
to do and raise the hopes of people who are against this hidden agenda but
will not actually carry through and stop it.
Wayne Morris:
Do you believe that the governments of the world have UFO technology that
they have been developing? This alien invasion would be a staged invasion
using their own military technology ...
Fritz Springmeier:
There is no question in my mind about it. Another agenda they have is to
destroy faith in national governments. That has been divided into thousands
of different projects. Jehovah's Witnesses who go door to door. If you look
at their literature, it works very hard at destroying faith in nationalism.
But who would suspect the Jehovah's Witnesses? Their Watchtower Society is
actually an Illuminati front. In fact one of their members accidentally
stumbled on to a big clue to this - he noticed there were thousands of
hidden occult symbols in the Watchtower artwork. There would be a picture
of a waterfall in a Watchtower magazine, but when you looked at it really
closely you would realize it was a skull. It's like Currier & Ives used to
have these hidden pictures - look at a tree and see other pictures. They
have these occult messages hidden in the Watchtower literature - like a
goat leading a herd of sheep, things like that. Or a thief running off with
occult jewellery with an all-seeing eye and things like this.
They have a lot of hidden messages. Who would think of Jehovah's Witnesses
being used? They use J-W's to access some of their slaves. Who can go
door-to-door without suspicion? I brought Cisco out of the Illuminati. It
doesn't mean I am the only person who ever helped her, but these J-W's will
come to the door, and I will say, "No, don't answer the door." Her natural
inclination would have been, "oh they are just Jehovah Witnesses."
Interestingly the same couple who came to our door, to try to talk to
Cisco, showed up the next day clear across town at another victim's
doorstep - very strange. I know the Jehovah Witnesses from the inside and
how they map out their territories and how they go door to door - and what
happened was not normal. You had to have a team of people who were trying
to access slaves that were getting free, and their cover was to be Jehovah
Witnesses.
It sounds like I am getting a little bit off track, but what I am trying to
say is - it is in their objective to destroy faith in the national
government. How do you destroy a national government? You create civil war,
create distrust of that government, bankrupt that government. There are all
these different projects to bring down the American government, and bring
down respect for our government - they play both ends against the middle.
Implementation of the end-times agendas involves a lot of agendas and a lot
of people scurrying around doing different things -- until you see the
whole picture and how it all fits together, it just looks like a lot of
chaos.
Wayne Morris:
I wanted to come back to your point about them creating a chaotic
situation, such as some of the scenarios you have been talking about. In
order for the public to then ask for the military to step in, or for the
United Nations to step in, and basically ask for a state of martial law --
is that your take on how they are going to do this?
Fritz Springmeier:
We will ask them for what they want to do. People have sat in on Illuminati
meetings where they gave their 20, 30, 40 year plans -- the key word to all
of those plans was that it would happen "naturally" - as if it was
naturally happening. In order to implement that, you have a lot of mind
controlled slaves out there. Another example, they want to destroy the
continuity of religious beliefs in the USA. The USA was basically founded
by a Protestant majority, there were very few Catholics when the USA was
started. In other words, the people of this country had a common agreement
-- one outlook on morality.
Fritz Springmeier:
When people have a moral belief system, Buddhist or whatever, if it's a
very strong belife system, it's hard to change them. What they are trying
to do is fragment our belief system. They have brought in a lot of foreign
belief systems into the USA but you also have all of these New Age gurus
popping up and creating their own little New Age groups. In the bigger
picture, it's to destroy the fabric of a unified moral response, and a lot
of these New Age leaders (eg. Elizabeth Claire Prophet - Church Universal
and Triumphant) are mind controlled slaves. Jay Z. Knight, that's who she
goes by - the entity she channels - she's a mind control slave. These are
New Age leaders and they are gathering flocks. One of the gals who became a
friend of mine who left the C.U.T. and became a Christian, in having worked
with her, I noticed some red flags that maybe she, as one of the leaders of
Elizabeth Claire Prophet's group, was a mind control victim, and she's not
the only evidence I have that not only are the leaders under mind control
who start the groups, but part of their flocks are mind control victims who
are being programmed to join these cults.
Imagine if you are a religious leader and you get secret help from the
establishment and you have people being programmed to join your
organization, how that gives you an edge over you or I starting a religion.
So that's one reason why we have such a chaotic religious atmosphere out
there where all of these gurus and religious leaders are starting all these
small weird groups.
Wayne Morris:
You talked about Dr. Ewen Cameron as being one of the mind control
programmers. I would like to know specifically what his and McGill
University's contribution to the development of trauma based mind control
is, to your awareness.
Fritz Springmeier:
I don't know that I have a great deal to share. I know that St. Mary's
Hospital there in Montreal was used by these people for programming. In the
basement they had what was known as The Zombie Room, and an isolation room
and the Grid Room. From various victims of mind control I know that various
Catholic Church institutions were used in Quebec. As far as Cameron's
personal contribution, I know that he worked for years assisting in the
programming and research. The things that he researched were classified,
and I don't have a good grasp of what he discovered. I know that if we read
"Journey Into Madness" by Gordon Thomas, in a couple of places in his book
he makes fun of Dr. Cameron. He says that Cameron's grants hadn't produced
any tangible value to the CIA or that there was a Dr. Gottlieb who was
supposedly investigating the doctor and questioning whether Cameron had
done anything to help the agents. I consider those kinds of statements the
typical kind of CIA disinformation that is put out. They typically say "we
did research but we didn't find anything of value." I have a hard time
believing that Dr. Cameron who was on the leading edge of mind control and
who was in touch with the top mind control programmers of his day and
learning techniques from them - that the man was of no value to the CIA. I
am not trying to put down Gordon Thomas' book because I would recommend it
to people, but this is the type of disinformation that spews forth from so
many different sources. Why was he head of the prestigious American
Psychiatric Association, and the World Psychiatric Association? Why was he
put in charge of so many very powerful organizations by the establishment
if he was so worthless to their agenda?
Wayne Morris:
Just in a general sense, what were the types of institutions that were
involved in the development of mind control across North America?
Fritz Springmeier:
Good question. I can quote them. Admiral Stansfield Turner, on August 3,
1977, told a Senate Investigating Committee that in the USA, prisons,
pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, 44 medical colleges, American
universities and corporations were helping the CIA carry out the mind
control experiments. I believe that using the word "experiments" is a
little bit of disinformation. This was operational programming. They were
taking the people who were coming out of these mind control experiments and
using them. They were far more than just experiments. But those were the
kind of institutions that were assisting in the programming.
Wayne Morris:
Can you make a statement about the role of psychiatry in the development of
mind control?
Fritz Springmeier:
They have been very important to develop the mind control from being more
what we would call training to being placed on a very scientific basis.
There has been extensive research into the mind by psychiatrists. That
research has been invaluable for developing the mind control technologies.
Behavior modification (Skinner, Pavlov, etc) findings were directly
implemented in teaching various alters to do certain things. If you read
our Volume 2 book and the Deeper Insights book, I go into how each of the
different alters are created (ie. Gatekeepers). At some point a Gatekeeper
alter will be taken to a door and then using behavior modification
techniques, severely torturing the alter, they are taught not to step
beyond the door, but hold their place at that door. The research that shows
that this type of training would be effective came from behavior
modification and psychiatrists.
Wayne Morris:
Do you think that some psychiatrists may have been unwitting in helping
develop this technology?
Fritz Springmeier:
There are several different levels of participation. People who are just
plain evil; people who are coerced, blackmailed, mind control victims
themselves; then a level of people below that who are unwitting dupes of
the system. My father was never part of the system in the sense of he never
joined any occult societies, he is not in favour of a New World Order,
philosophically he's not aligned with them. He's just somebody who believes
in science and he believes science can help the world. He wanted to help
the world, make a positive difference. The Illuminati deflect what these
researchers want for good and use it for evil purposes. I have a hard time
with one scientist I was talking with earlier this year. He developed
biological weapons for the USa (viruses, anthrax, etc.). He said knowledge
is neutral, it is neither good nor bad. It's how it's used. I am thinking
in my head, "are you that stupid, that you don't realize the people you are
working for and who are going to use this stuff are going to use it for
evil? ..." A lot of these scientists are so focused on the tiny little
details of what they are trying to research, and ego plays a part in this.
They want to discover something - their ego, pride, concentration in the
research doesn't allow them to step back and say "what is this going to be
used for?"
Wayne Morris:
The information that we have been talking about has been quite depressing,
and I think a lot of people are going to be affected by it. What message of
hope do you have for people after learning about all of this?
Fritz Springmeier:
There's two sides to a coin, and we have been talking about the negative
side of the coin. The positive side is that a lot of the technologies that
have been developed could actually be used for the advancement of mankind,
to benefit mankind. Another positive is that in spite of the forces that
are trying to destroy humanity, there are a lot of positive forces. There
are quite a number of independent researchers, and they haven't gotten much
media attention except ridicule - people have been researching free energy,
and they have made a lot of advancements - so the common person would not
be dependent upon the establishment for any of its energy. Another area of
research is alternative medicine, amazing discoveries that really liberate
people from establishment medicine. You have the internet and photocopy
machines which have given the common person the ability to transmit and
gather a lot of information without being part of the establishment. You
have home schooling. There are developments that are taking place that do
not rely on the establishment monopolies. These monopolies are fragile and
they can be broken.
Another positive is that in spite of the monumental power they have, people
like myself have been able to slip through their control cracks and have
been able to free people from the deepest depths of the organizations. I
have been able to get out so much information exposing their methods and
their agenda. I am saying this to show these people are not invincible.
Wayne Morris:
I would like to thank you very much for joining us on this radio series.
It's been absolutely fascinating talking to you, and I would like to thank
you for bringing this information out.
Fritz Springmeier:
I very much appreciate this chance, and I want to congratulate your courage
and your love for the truth in bringing this to the Canadian and the
American people.
Wayne Morris:
Stay tuned next week for an interview with Cisco Wheeler, Fritz
Springmeier's co-author, and former Illuminati family mind controlled
slave. CBC TV is going to be airing a few productions on mind control this
week. The Fifth Estate is supposed to be airing an investigation which was
supposed to be about Montreal psychiatrist, Dr. Pivnicki (Mila Mulroney's
father) and his role in covering up the Cameron mind control experiments. I
am not sure if that's what is on this week - I don't know if they had to
change that due to Brian Mulroney's attempt to clear his name. Also one
week today, Sunday January 11, 1998 at 8-10pm will be Part One of The Sleep
Room, which is a documentary based on Anne Collins' book "In The Sleep
Room" based on Dr. Ewen Cameron and his CIA funded experiments on his
psychiatric patients at the Allen Memorial Psychiatric Institute in
Montreal. Dr. Cameron was the target of two lawsuits against the CIA and
the Canadian government by his psychiatric patients who had been
unwittingly involved in his experiments which involved electroshock,
sensory deprivation, psychic driving, drugs, reportedly in an effort to
wipe out a person's mind and create a new personality.
Now throughout this series we have heard an even darker side to Dr. Ewen
Cameron's mind control experiments, and that his involvement in trauma
conditioning of children. This extreme form of mind control perpetrated
against children involved creating and controlling multiple identities
through torture, physical, emotional and sexual abuse, hypnosis, drugs,
electroshock and structural programming. We have heard from Claudia Mullen
and her testimony given to the US Presidential Advisory Committee on Human
Radiation Experiments in 1995 about how Dr. Cameron would electroshock her
after being involved in an experiment or sexual blackmail operation when
she was still a child. We heard from Lynne Moss-Sharman who was
experimented on and programmed by Dr. Ewen Cameron along with Dr. Jose
Delgado, another well-known CIA mind control doctor, and we heard most
recently from Fritz Springmeier claiming that Dr. Cameron was an associate
of Dr. Josef Mengele and that Mengele had been smuggled out of Europe to
work in the USA, continuing his work refining mind control for the CIA.
Information from his work has Ewen Cameron and Josef Mengele working
together creating mind control operatives.
Now, is the CBC going to deal with these allegations and the testimony in
their upcoming documentary? Well, we will see ...
You have been listening to the International Connection on CKLN.
[CBC introduction <cbc1.htm> to In The Sleep Room]
    [Little house: <hm1.gif>] <index.htm>     MCF Home Page <index.htm>

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