-Caveat Lector-
Begin forwarded message:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: April 27, 2007 12:24:45 PM PDT
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: "Now That We're Here, It's Too Late, There's No Turning
Back" (Deja Vu, Going in Circles)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2062422,00.html
"From the 16th to the 20th centuries, the course of Iraqi history
was affected by the continuing conflicts between the Safavid Empire
in Iran and the [Sunni] Ottoman Turks. The Safavids, the first to
declare Shia Islam the official religion of Iran, sought to control
Iraq both because of the Shia holy places at An Najaf and Karbala
and because Baghdad, the seat of the old Abbasid Empire, had great
symbolic value. The Ottomans, fearing that Shia Islam would spread
to Anatolia (Asia Minor), sought to maintain Iraq as a Sunni-
controlled buffer state. In 1509 the Safavids, led by Ismail Shah
(1502-24), conquered Iraq, thereby initiating a series of
protracted battles with the Ottomans. In 1514 Sultan Selim the Grim
attacked Ismail's forces and in 1535 the Ottomans, led by Sultan
Suleyman the Magnificent (1520-66), conquered Baghdad from the
Safavids. The Safavids reconquered Baghdad in 1623 under the
leadership of Shah Abbas (1587-1629), but they were expelled in
1638 after a series of brilliant military maneuvers by the dynamic
Ottoman sultan, Murad IV
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdy:@field(DOCID+iq0018)
"Having concluded a peace with the Emperor Ferdinand II, [Murad IV]
resolved to turn his arms against Persia. He began the war by
laying siege to Baghdad, which was then garrisoned by Persian
troops. He was am first obliged to retire; but in 1637 he again
took the field, stormed Baghdad, and disgraced his reputation by
the cruel massacre of the greater part of the inhabitants."
http://books.google.com/books?vid=0s2i3K-
EwOb8qBE2Uk8bFa&id=k3ha3_YPt0kC
This has been going on for a while.
=========
hypocrites
April 21, 2007 4:31 AM
"BUT - WE'RE HERE NOW" THEORY
You're woken up in the middle of the night by burglars, they've
broken your windows, doors. smashed up your glassware, left the
place in a mess. After waking you & your family they rape your wife
& torture you & your kids. YOu give them all the money you have.
But they don't go. They insist they must stay & make things right
before they leave. YOu beg, plead, insist "it's ok - just go -
please". but they say "WE'RE HERE NOW, we can't leave you like
this" Obviously you're in no position to negotiate - but how sweet.
When the British landed in Tasmania they went about exterminating
the locals. After they had killed 100% of them - they did a bit of
soul searching. The vicar was on hand to point out WELL, WE'RE HERE
NOW. We can't exactly bring them back can we? JUst make sure - you
dont do it again.
When the Germans invaded Poland. Western Euorpe started to get
paranoid. Hitler said "look, WE'RE HERE NOW - we can't leave it
like this, give us say 10 years to make things right". it is one of
the great unanswered questions of history. Why did the allies not
give the germans the standard 10 year benefit of the doubt - to
repair the damage & stabalise the situation. Why did they get So
worked up by the mass killings & rapings of civilians - AFter! the
milk was spilt?
When the Serbs went into Kosovo. They put their hands up "yeah..
we've killed civilians - but! WE'RE HERE NOW - give us a chance to
repair the damage. Why did no-one think to give the Serbs 10 years
to bury the dead, build relationships & rebuild the infrastructure
they blew up?
If the situations described above are not making any sense. You are
from the old school. Modern thought is that if your adventure turns
into a disaster, just say "WE'RE HERE NOW" & get down to fixing the
damage.
Cue Iraq. The bad news is, The US and their allies have managed the
deaths of around 2 million Iraqis -- to get one man. The good news
They say "yeah, but WE'RE HERE NOW" and they've promised to "fix" it.
jochebed2
April 21, 2007 5:44 AM
It's all about "having your cake and eating it too" - doing wrong
but not admitting it was wrong and trying to keep the proceeds
regardless, since "Here we are":
Messing with Iraq in defiance of international war started a civil
war, so now, on top of the illegal invasion, "we have to stay in
order to sort out the civil war" ...
It's all about deception and self-deception as well: "Now that
we're here, we might as well keep the oil, and sod the locals. If
they had done as they were told in the first place, this wouldn't
have happened -- so it's their fault, really, that we raped them
and trashed the place. But since we're already here ..."
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