-Caveat Lector-
>Tonight, however, I'd like to know why you consider
>Roosevelt and Clinton facistst. Niether were demigogues. Both
>administrations have been the antithesis of fascism.
>Should you base your judgement upon manipulative oratory alone, surely
>you'll have to include Churchill, Kennedy, Reagan, Lincoln, -
>particularly the great communicator Reagan - in your list of fascists as
well
>as Roosevelt and Clinton. Since facism is generally understood as
>ultraconserative and reactionary, similar to libertarian extremism, you
>might reconsider your definition of the term.
Considering Fascism "ultra-Conservative" is just socialist propaganda.
Reactionary is a meaningless Communist smear word. Roosevelt and Churchill
were demigogues! Listen to their speeches!
Well, of course, manipulation of public opinion is not the only factor
indicating fascism. But, certainly the man on horseback manipulating public
adoration is a major factor.
And like most things it is not yes or no, but more or less! That Roosevelt
and Churchill fought other fascist namely the ones in Germany, Japan, and
Italy, does not mean that they weren't fascists as well!
Fortunately, American and British traditions prevented Fascism from
proceeding quite as far in America and Britain than it did in Germany and
Italy. The Oligarchic Supreme Court saved America from the worst of what
Roosevelt would have done.
Fascism involves the consolidation of the State and integration into itself
under a popular dictator all or most aspects of society including
economics....Corporations, Unions, and many other previously independent
social and economic entities. Unlike Communism, the external forms of the
previous entities and private property are preserved but ultimately in an
illusory way as the State can intervene at will with no Constitutional
restraint.
In essence, Roosevelt provided the same Fascist answer for Depression to the
ruling class behind the major Corporations as did Hitler! The New Deal
especially as originally conceived was Fascist through and through!
Given Clinton's ultra-Statist penchant for centralizing and nationalizing
Medical Care, his unlimited support for the National Security State,
disregard of Civil Liberties, etc. [The ACLU and Dershowitz agree with me],
business-government partnership, etc. combined with his incredibly crass
manipulation of simple-minded public opinion a strong case can be made that
he is Fascist. The American Presidency (Imperial Presidency) is well
designed as a launching pad for Fascism and all the Presidents you mentioned
have at least some Fascist tendencies. Reagan confined his tendency to the
Military-Industrial complex, fortunately.
Scaife [MELLON] and Starr, on the other hand, want to return to the normal
Anglo-American Oligarchical system in which the State is controlled by a
cabal of big bankers for the special benefit of their coterie and the rest
of society remains relatively laissez-faire. I don't like this either, but
it is not fascism and it is not as bad as Fascism. The Oligarchists (like
Brutus) in Caesar's time, want to preserve their rule of law, skewed though
it may be, to protect their independent fortunes rather than live at the
whim of the Fascist leader.
To fight Fascism you must destroy the leader with overwhelming popular
supprt whether it be Clinton, Roosevelt, Hitler, Kennedy {Fascist New
Frontier}, etc. The "people" are always whining for Caesar and must be
defeated if any scrap of liberty is to be preserved!
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-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, July 01, 1999 5:32 AM
Subject: [Reality_Pump] Re: Clinton Lays Out His Agenda,
ImpressesEventheNaysayers
Lloyd,
I inadvertently deleted your last response to one of my posts, but had
intended to answer you. Tonight, however, I'd like to know why you
consider
Roosevelt and Clinton facistst. Niether were demigogues. Both
administrations have been the antithesis of fascism.
Should you base your judgement upon manipulative oratory alone, surely
you'll have to include Churchill, Kennedy, Reagan, Lincoln, -
particularly the great communicator Reagan - in your list of fascists as
well
as Roosevelt and Clinton. Since facism is generally understood as
ultraconserative and reactionary, similar to libertarian extremism, you
might reconsider your definition of the term.
Here's a good descripiton of contemporary facism from
http://burn.ucsd.edu/~aff/afib.html
>>Antifa Info-Bulletin is an E-zine for researchers and activists fighting
to
stop the far-right and their corporate benefactors dead in their tracks. Our
purpose is not simply to document the crimes perpetrated by a burgeoning
fascist movement across North America, but to analyse the re-emergence of
the
racist right within the wider context of global capitalism and imperialism
as
it exists today.
Unlike those who portray reactionaries as "outsiders" beyond the pale of the
"pluralist mainstream," our purpose is to document and expose the
continuities existing among far-rightists, corporate and state elites: the
ruling class and their armed fist, the military and police.
Fascism and its twin, clerical reaction, neither emerge from a void nor are
they unconnected to dominant trends within the wider capitalist
superstructure. For North Americans, the predominant expression of an
emergent fascist movement, is racism and white supremacy. But it isn't the
fascists alone who are responsible for stoking the flames of race war or
genocidal moves towards "ethnic cleansing" and a white monoculture of
shopping malls, suburban enclaves, and police state surveillance.
As the capitalist crisis deepens, dominant elites are extending the "Third
World model" into the imperialist metropole itself. Attacks upon our
standard
of living, union busting, racist pogroms against immigrants, organized
misogyny and homophobia, violent anti-Semitism and anti-Black racism are
exploited by the ruling class as "wedge issues." The re-emergence of fascism
within a score of European and North American countries can only be
contextualized within the terminal crisis of bourgeois civilization itself.
Failure to comprehend the contradictory nature of fascism - it's
simultaneous
character as an oppositional movement and violent prop for bourgeois society
- inevitably leads to the failure by leftist forces to challenge and combat
institutional racism, sexism, classism, homophobia, etc.<<
ron
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