-Caveat Lector-
On Tue, 13 Jul 1999, Robert Paul wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> William Hugh wrote:
>
> >""The state" is here to stay."
>
> This is good...anarchy leads to statism any way. I oppose statism
> because it is idolatry and the root of most social evil.
So, we agree that some form of government is always necessary or society
resorts to chaos. But would you concede that the exercise of governmental
power does not always have to be oppressive? Idolatry in any form is
probably not a good thing. But I tend to be more pessimistic about the
ability of human beings to maintain their civil liberties/personal freedom
without the presence of government. The question is what kind of
government shall we have? A government that protects everyone's civil
liberties or the civil liberties of a few? Many of the folks on the list
are champions of the US Constitution, which I agree is a noble document,
but throughout most of the history of the United States, some of the most
aggregious practices known to man were committed while the Constitution
was in effect: existence of slavery, denial of full civil liberties to a
substantial portion of the population, etc.
Without the power of government to enforce the common good, society
reverts to a condition of chaos where the strong terrorize and brutalize
the weak. Laissez-faire becomes a recipe for fascism. Why? Because
human beings are always willing to engage in one form of combine or
another to oppress their fellow citizens. Only a powerful and strong
government can prevent injustice. Otherwise, we are trapped in a
Hobbesian jungle...a war of all against all.
>
> >"Why should the wealthiest of Americans eliminate something that serves
> the interests of monopoly capitalism so well?"
>
> The Plutocracy will never give up their wealth and power unless we're
> willing to give then an incentive to do so. "Monopoly capitalism" (a
> poplar contradiction in terms) doesn't exist. Only the State can
> maintain a monopoly and only if given the power to do so by an ignorant
> and lazy People.
I agree. The state does maintain various economic monopolies of various
kinds. That's because the state is the tool of private
interests...helping a few economic players maintain economic hegemony.
>
> >"We haven't even touched on the issue of local governments, local
> politics...how local businessmen use the power of LOCAL governments to
> keep competition to a minimum"
>
> Statism is like cancer...it is difficult to stop and often ends in
> death. Unfortunately, most advocate more statism as an antidote.
Perhaps the problem is not a case of more versus less statism, but a focus
on what the state actually does. We will have a government of some kind
or another, that's a given. Then, it just becomes a matter of deciding
what kind of governmental policy can be adopted that serves the interests
of ALL of the nation's citizens, not just an affluent few.
> > >"I'm sorry, Mr. Paul."
>
> Robert Paul is my Christian appellation and I avoid the word Mr....it
> has a negative history <smile>.
Sorry, Robert.
>
> >"I remember very well how states, counties, and city municipalities
> would gleefully violate the civil rights of Americans with impunity."
>
> This is true...civil rights are easy to violate since they are mere
> (state given) privileges. Un-alienable rights is stronger ground to
> stand on, but against the almighty State no rights are possible.
On this point, I think you're overly optimistic about the ability of your
fellow citizens to recognize the un-alienable rights of their fellow
citizens.
Governor Faubus, Governor Wallace and Bull Connor weren't
particularly interested in the un-alienable rights of black Americans.
It took the power of an outside agency (that wicked old US government that
is always up to no good) to guarantee the civil liberties of ALL
Americans in the South. The local authorities hated
the implementation of civil rights laws during that period; so much so,
that many Americans who were brave enough to insist on their
Constitutional rights would often end up at the bottom of a swamp.
> >"It was only the power of the federal government that brought an end to
> the Jim Crow era."
>
> The Jim Crow era was a product of State statism and thanks to the
Yes. The Jim Crow era was a product of State statism. That is why
so many of these arguments about letting "the local level" handle things
are dubious, because "the local level" can be just as corrupt and
tyrannical as the wicked ol' Federal government.
Thank heaven for the United States government that places strict controls
on how the tax dollars are spent at the local level. Why do I say that?
Because I don't think any minority resident in the state of North Dakota
(my state) has any confidence in the ability of the white population
to decide how much money should be spent funding educational programs in
our local Native American communities.
> Federal "government" we have "affirmative action" (reverse
> discrimination),"hate crimes" (thought crimes), the so called drug war
> and the "War on Poverty" etc..
To get into a lengthy debate on affirmative action would not be
particularly productive here. I'm operating under a time constraint, but
I would suggest to you that WITHOUT the affirmative action program, we
would not have made the progress that we have had during the past thirty
years in the area of race relations. An entire generation of minority
professionals has arisen, and the race relations have improved. I don't
think you would have liked living in the south during the days of Jim
Crow. The racial problems continue, of course, for a variety of reasons
not directly related to affirmative action.
On this point, we profoundly disagree. The dominant population has always
enjoyed PRIVATE SYSTEMS of "affirmative action" as well as public systems
of privilege. It's called the old boys network. People who are members
of the same race, same ethnic background, same religious background,
promote and assist people who most resemble themselves. ( "Nice" people
are people who look, think, act, do things the way I do.) Of course, the
result of all of these private systems of preference and privilege is
a stratified, static society in which mindless conformity and bigotry are
constantly rewarded. Those who have get more...and defend their
privileges by using the language of "freedom" and "choice" and "liberty"
to mask their bigotry.
>
> >"If you want to believe that deregulation will usher in some golden age
> of prosperity for all,"
>
> It's not a matter of belief, if one advocates freedom, one advocates
> deregulation.
"Freedom" is an interesting word. I don't think anyone is truly "free" if
you are living in ignorance and in poverty. Deregulation was tried in the
case of the Savings and Loan and look at the result: a complete disaster.
>
> >"you're welcome to believe that, but I don't think that's likely."
>
> Thanks and I think it's likely,,,if we get real deregulation...that
is...get the state out of Our business. Proper government acts, as
> a policeman, to protect the Rights of all. Regulation exists, like a
> storm-trooper, to control a right-less people.
>
> Robert Paul
>
Thanks for the response, R.
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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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