-Caveat Lector-

from:
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<A
HREF="http://www.redshift.com/~damason/lhreport/articles/bowart.html">Walter
Bowart Interview</A>
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Interview with Walter H. Bowart
July 16, 1995

San Jose, California

Interview participants:
Marilyn Colman: MC
Will Robinson: WR
Walter Bowart: WB

WR: Here on the Lighthouse Report it is our pleasure to have before us a
person whom we've interviewed many times on phone, Walter Boward.
Walter, how are you doing today?

WB: Well, I'm doing great and it is my pleasure to be here in person
with you.

WR: I think the first place to start is regarding the talk that you gave
just last night, or I should say, Saturday night when this program is
aired....why don't we get to the areas that you said that you didn't get
to cover but would like to touch on, on the subject of mind control and
manipulation.

WB: Well, of course the new areas of research...it's flooding in all the
time and that's...that's been called, what, the "cordless mind control
area" if you will, some kind of broadcasting of technology that puts a
human voice inside of.. human voice in teams, twenty-four hours a day,
inside of a person's mind. Now we want to try to come... we are working
on...Freedom of Thought Foundation is building a network and we're
working with scientists to try and come up with ways to discern between
people that are paranoid-schizophrenics. Because traditionally, if you
had a voice inside your head you're diagnosed as paranoid-schizophrenic.
And that was it. But we found a lot of these people that are hearing
these voices are not paranoid-schizophrenic and function otherwise
normally. They just hear these voices.

MC: And I think it's important to realize that not everything continues
to be the same truth. Part of the problem we have with today's medical
associations is they are not able to look at what's really happening and
I think, Walter, it is important that you are one of me...in the
vanguard of opening up the new technology.

WB: Yeah, well, this is what we are learning, in our experience, is that
the therapist and social workers down in the lowest level have the best
handle because they really treat people hands-on. The next level that
knows about it are the psychologists and the ones that know the least
about all of this mind-control stuff are the psychiatrists. They are
twenty years behind time. I mean, the idea of Freudian analysis is still
going on and it is pathetic to think that people will pay lots of
money-what is it? � hundreds of dollars an hour...

MC: ... and many, many years. About ten years... WB: ...and all talking
about your problems does is reinforce your problem.

WR: In other words, what you are saying is they're more like the New
York Dental Association.

WB: Yeah-it's like a closed shop and they're twenty years behind the
time. They are working with outdated technology and ideas. MC: And
that's right, because the New ,Age medicine adopted the work of the
shaman and of the occult and of the spiritual side of man and we are now
seeing that these two things, both the mechanical aspect of mind and
body and the spiritual side, have to come together to heal the whole
person.

WB: We have a False Memory "Spindrome" Foundation. I call it "spindrome"
because it's not a syndrome what they describe a~ false memories. And
the concept of this group is that memories can be implanted in your
mind. False memories, untrue things. You will remember untrue things.
Now, this is not established very well in law and there is a plus side
to this because, in fact, false memories can be implanted. And also,
people are inept at hypnosis and various other things so that they will
pollute others unintentionally with false memories and things like that.
However, the board of this organization is made up of a lot of CIA
people, CIA contracts, "spychiatrists", and pedophiles, child molesters,
people that are on the side of pedophilia. They are trying to defend
 pedophilia. And it is a very litigious, very aggresive organization
that has struck terror in the hearts of the psychiatric, psychological
and therapeutic community.

MC: Now how can we relate this to the two things like the Prince and the
McMartin Cases?

WB: The McMartin case, I don't know exactly how it relates but...

MC: Well, if the children, they claim that the children's memories of
being molested were implanted by the therapists working with them.

WB: Yeah, that's what they claim, but I don't think that had any bearing
on the case and the outcome. I think that the withholding of evidence
had more to do, and what evidence was found later that the children said
was true of the tunnels and whatnot, that was discovered later, so I
think the case fell because of bad...

MC: But you know that the folks that espoused this were using this as
ammunition against you.

WR: Yeah, Yeah because the bottom line is you have a verdict turned back
that they were acquitted. And they were using that to foster the idea to
give the people like the False Memory Spindrome Foundation (FMSF) more
ammunition to say "see?"

WB: Yes. Have you talked to Allan Shefland about this?

WR: No we haven't.

WB: He would be a good one to interview because he is a lawyer and he
knows the ins and outs and if I have not misunderstood him, all of the
decisions that have been made that seem to be in favor of the False
Memory Spindrome Foundation will be reversed on appeal because they are
all third party lawsuits and there is a good body of law that bars this
kind of thing. And this is just a temporary thing.

MC: Because they're claiming, for instance this case where the girl,
twenty years later, claims she was abused by her father and then they
claim that the psychiatrist put this information into her head and now
you are saying that these have a chance of being overturned back the
other way.

WB: Yes back. Yeah, on appeal. And what concerns me though are people
like Dr. Colin Ross with (Charter Hospital who is a leading psychiatrist
who is supposed to understand Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD)) and
says he understands the degree that the intelligence community has
influenced and created Multiple Personality Disorders and yet he has
joined the False Memory Syndrome Foundation and is trying, or at least
pretending, to be an apologist to bring unity between this group and
another, and it scares me because he also said "I want to make money
from this" beforehand. And it's like a turncoat sort of... though his
intentions may be to subvert the FMSF he is grossly outnumbered. And I
think it is going to hurt his practice in the end. I don't think that
the survivors are going to trust this man anymore.

WR: You know, we see something else happening also, an interesting
phenomena, if you want to call it....l wouldn't call it a phenomena
but....and that is, it seems that the people that are fostering this new
form, I guess we could say new form of thought control, are working both
sides of the fence. We also have an organization by the name of the Colt
Awareness Network that works the other side of the street counter to the
False Memory Syndrome but in a manner of speaking they make interesting
bedfellows in some of the operatives.

WB: Yes, yes. And both of them...one of the things they have in common
however you divide it up to keep it simple.. .both of them are targeting
psychologists and therapists. Primarily psychologists 'cause the
psychiatrists are god on Mt. Olympus, protected by the AMA and above
reproach generally. But the psychologists and therapists, the people who
are really doing the work with these people hands-on are vulnerable to
this kind of intimidation and litigation and threat. And right now in
the summer of 1995 there is a climate of panic in the community. People
are running scared. They are afraid to take clients. And of course you
are dealing with Multiple Personality Disorder, a lot of which is
government induced or manipulated through intelligence. I mean. Ross
told me that 20% of his patients, he thinks, are government related.
Another prominent psychologist told me that 40% of his patients are the
government mind control, MPDs.

MC: Now as I understand this, his kind of breakdown of the personality
is done out of trauma-based. And to disassociate means to survive as an
entity, as a human. So the people break down into various fragments
personality-wise to survive the pain of what they've experienced. Now
that happens naturally also and also as we are reading...

WB: Oh, it does happen naturally, yes indeed but it rarely happens
naturally to say 20% of the people that experience it because you have
to have a certain imagination and a certain intelligence level. All of
the multiple personality people are extremely brilliant and very gifted
in many ways. and then the MPD...which comes first the chicken or the
egg? But then after you've developed this Associative Development
Disorder, or MPD? as it used to be called, you develop incredible
extrasensory perception and various other gifts, at least that's the way
they describe it and experience it. Now people like Ross say it's not
demonstrable, I mean you can't repeat it, you can't prove that they have
this ESP that they talk about and that remains to he seen. Because, time
and time again? interviewing these people, you've heard them talk about
the government, the United States clandestine intelligence interest in
this, remote viewing and how to locate submarines under water and you
know targeting objects at a distance, things like that.

WR: Now using a term or word that was actually invented by you, this is
the offspring of the word, why don't we talk about what one would call
the "cryptocratic" time line of when this really began and what has and
how it's developed and escalated. � love that word. by the way. Marilyn
and I are going to adopt that and use it more and more.

WB: Thank you, I think it's a good idea. I mean on behalf of the English
language it's a prefix. "Crypto" is in the dictionary, and "ocracy" is
in the dictionary, and "cryptocracy" isn't, and all it means is "secret
government." But it plays against...cryptocracy plays against democracy.
And some of the early stuff, the earliest modern evidence that we
have... now Allan Shefland does a neat tape...we made a tape of his
presentation and its available through the Freedom of Thought Foundation
for $39.95 (can I say that?)

WR: We will give out the information toward the end of this interview
and also on the program and how they can get in touch with you.

WB: Super, but he starts out with a slide show of the history of mind
control. And it starts out with a picture of a skull with a hole in the
middle of the head. And he says "this i9 the first attempt at mind
control" and he goes through history with that. So you know, it starts
with water torture and various things and they were experimenting with
all kinds of shock treatments before electricity was invented. And then
when electricity came on they used that and you can see the progress.
And he's got vivid slides of the straight jackets, and I'm sure you've
seen the reproduction of that thing they put around their head to keep
them from biting their tongue off when they shock them.

MC: What's interesting, we might mention here, is that much of this work
done over the centuries was done on female subjects. And it's important
to note, because females were much easier to restrain, put away, put
into institutions. And there was always a lot of cash to be made,
because women could not inherit in England or in France until the laws
were liberated. One in Napoleon's codus liberated the females so that
they could inherit. The point is that women were often used, women and
children, and they were not only operated on physically to deform them,
but they were also put into institutions and experimented on. They
really were the first mind experiment subjects.

WB: Yes, well no longer. Thank God. Things have changed in our society,
and there is a great deal of empowerment going on for women and
children, at last.

MC: And this is important in this whole discussion because I know, and I
can tell you from my own research, that much of the military
experimentation... and this is what Mr. Boward has done here... was done
on the children of the doctors themselves. They used their own offspring
to do these horrible things. Correct?

WB: Yes, as a matter of fact, that's the terrible thing, that children,
the way they tortured the children. It's lurid and disgusting; we can
talk about it if you want.

WR: I think we need to get back to the time line first.

WB: On the first page of Operation Mind Control, or on the second or
third page, it says under a photograph, "Operation Mind Control is
largely a male chauvinist game, because women and children were the
targets." Eighty percent of the people we're finding now are women.

WR: Now I think we should start with the time line and see how this
incorporates itself.

WB: I'm glad someone is keeping us organized. In 1940-41, the earliest
thing we found in the modern context, as I was about to say, is a naval
officer who had his memory suppressed, because it contained secrets of
torture at the hands of the Japanese. Apparently he both did torturing
and was tortured. He remembered these terrors and relived them only in
the last days of his life in his late eighties after he began to suffer
the side effects of a series of strokes, cardiovascular accidents. So
this man got out of WWII, had his memories suppressed by mind control,
this new science emerging. And lived a happy life and there's a VA
history of him and all this. And he married and you know you have every
bit of documentation on this man. Until the last days, only recently, he
died, and he died in terror. He died screaming. He died from all the
suppressed memories, memories that were suppressed by mind control.

WR: It literally came back and killed him.

WB: Well, the cardiovascular accidents or whatever was going on.

WR: Well, that could have been caused by the terror.

WB: Good question, good point.

MC: I'd like to ask you this � in many cases with children that have
been abused. When they become adults they claim to have no memory of
their childhood. Is that true that there is an age line on this, that it
starts to wear off at a certain point and they start to remember?

WB: Well, actually we had here a guy, this guy must have been a grown
man before they used whatever they did to suppress his memories. But
normally, to create a multiple personality, they start before five years
old. They start really young, and by five they've finished. The work is
done.

MC: What's the normal memory for a child? What does a normal person
remember before they are five?

WB: Oh, I remember being six months old.

MC: You do?

WB: Oh, sure. Yeah, I think a lot of people remember really early, some
incidents. You don't remember continuously. But you remember falling off
the bed, or you remember that suddenly I'm walking, how did I get to
walking?

MC: So is that true that in many cases a person that does not have any
memory, let's say before six, could have an incident of this, because
people ask this...

WB: Oh, yes, I think one of the signs of abuse and trauma is lack of
memory. If they continue to have missing time like if any of you
listeners out there have clothes hanging in your closet that are your
size but not your style, and they're over on one side of the closet and
they change now and then, but you don't ever remember wearing them, it's
time to consult somebody.

WR: It's funny, now last night, you know how you're dozing off and
you've got the TV on, I just happened to catch a movie that was on HBO
that was about a daughter being abused by her father. And the way it
came about, it was that she was a teenager, and all of a sudden she
started having nightmares, and she was always withdrawn from people, and
it was because she never felt she was good enough. She felt guilty, she
felt dirty. Now, you've got to remember, this was a drama, but I'm sure
it was based on a study of some cases. It turns out that her father had
been abusing since she was very small, just sneaking into the bedroom, a
little at first, and then getting more agressive with it and to the
point that she finally couldn't take it anymore, but she felt more than
anything else that it was her fault. And it's sad...

WB: Yes, that's usually it. And also the child often seeks out the
abuser. Like if there's a choice to live between Mom and Dad, and one of
them is the abuser, the child will often choose the abuser to live with.

=====
from:
http://www.redshift.com/~damason/lhreport/articles/bowart2.html
-----
Interview with Walter H. Bowart
July 16, 1995

San Jose, California

Part II


MC: Now this is the natural or non-mind control method, now how is this
done artificially?

WB: Well you see now, you can live with all that. But I mean let's just
talk about the so-called natural...

MC: Then oppose it to the way it's done under mind control.

WB: As far as I'm concerned from what I'm finding out, the natural level
of abuse of children is too high.

MC: But what I'm saying is that I'd like to know if ... now again my
experience with some of the people that I know, for instance
behaviorists, Skinnerians, they did things to their children, now I'm
talking about 25 years ago, acquaintances of mine that I've worked with,
well they used Skinnerian cribs, they used various behavioral techniques
on their children which I would not constitute as torture or mind
control but did, to me, seem non humane. Now what did the government do
beyond the Skinnerian Behavioral Techniques? What we want to know here
is ... so people can understand what happened and then bring it up to
now ... and its being done even on a higher level of science.

WR: For the benefit of the audience, let's go into a little detail on
Skinnerian cribs.

MC: After, a Skinnerian crib, as I observed it, was an environment to
create a womb-like environment for the child after birth, which in
itself was not cruel, but the parents were supposed to have limited
sensation by touch of this child. The child was suspended in something
that loved somewhat like a waterbed, it was suspended in the air and
according to Skinner it would create a person that was non-dependent on
his parents. It would be a freer, non-non-contaminated individual. It
would grow up to be one of the super people because Skinner felt that
you could create any personality by nutrition; there would be lights,
there would be sound, and there would be things. But the parents were
asked to limit their touching of this child except to feed it. And it
was done on a very very ... the schedules were very abrupt. By our
standards.

WR: What I'm. getting at: how would that effect the family unit?

MC: They were experimenting on their own child.

WR: No that's not what I mean. What kind of product would this create?

MC: We don't know. The products are walking around. Who knows which ones
they are.

WB: We know about Debbie Skinner. She committed suicide.

MC: Yes, thank you, that's true. He did his own kids.

WR: That's what I wanted to know. I was trying to get some feedback from
somebody who knows a little more about this. Either you or Walter.

MC: Now I don't know what happened to this child that I observed.

WB: I only know about Skinner what I've read and I haven't read all that
but I think they were rather extreme. I don't think most people would go
to that extreme.

MC: And that's the point. In the university setting people have used
their children. Again we know this from our research, they use their
children. Now some at a very sinister level. but these people felt they
were doing the right thing.

WB: Yes well ... we find MPD is multi-generational and this is what the
intelligence community has known for a long time.

MC: And these were the highest level of the intellectual, cream of the
crop, in your ivory tower academia, they were doing that.

WB: If you were abused as a child you will probably abuse your children.
And probably this goes back to your grandfather or your grandparents.

MC: And according to the program that I went to: almost at the same age
you were abused. the abuser goes to seek out the child. If he was abused
at six months, he will go and abuse, he or she because there are shes
that do it also, at six months. It's amazing, they will repeat what was
done to them.

WB: And sometimes, it amazing and surprising that the mothers do it.
That's what surprised me.

MC: There are many more female abusers of children. Society does not
want to talk about that.

WR: Have you ever come in contact with any of the Skinnerian products,
you might say?

WB: yeah, I have.

WR: Any observations?

WB: Well, Just that it was a form of abuse. Isolation, deprivation,
alienation, man that's what it was. It was a foam of abuse.

WR: But what I'm saying is can you actually tell one by a personality
trait possibly or ...

WB: Not specifically, it all fits into this abuse pattern. One of these
files I have, I'm. looking for a picture of this Debbie Skinner, I don't
know, have you seen it in here?

MC: But, you know what I'm getting at. I'm trying to talk about what's
being done now and how a person would have been altered as a child in
experimentation, because I think people would like to know if they were
possibly exposed to that kind of medical treatment.

WB: Well, if they can't remember their childhood, say ten or before,
then chances are there is something going on.

Now, we could be talking here and there is certainly enough on this tape
to trigger certain people and if they lapse into unconsciousness and
have missing time they should see a therapist and start therapy as soon
as possible. Now again, Colin Ross said he thought there could be as
many as ten million people that were so programmed. A lot of them were
abused by their parents and then picked up by the intelligence
community. In one case, a very vocal naming names and everything is
Kathy O'Brian. And she tells the story of her father using herself and
her brother in porn films as children and sending them through the
mails. And he got busted by the postal authorities or whoever it is that
checks that. Then they came to him and he was about to go to trial. And
they said look if you want to get out of this you'll play ball with us
and its the Department of Defense. Of course, they weren't ... they were
probably CIA, but they said we'll show you how to do this for real.
We'll show you how to torture her and then you'll torture her for us,
for our purposes. And that started a lifetime of her service to, first
of all, as a cute little girl to have sex with politicians and then
later as a drug mule and then as a courier to carry secret messages and
so on.

WR: Which brings us a little further along in the time-line.

WB: This was in the sixties.

WR: I don't want to jump ahead if there is a part in between there let
me know but I think if we jump to the fifties then we get into Candy
Jones. Which is a classic example that you mention in your book.

WB: After 194l we have this early case and in '43 Hoffman discovered LSD
and then ten years later the CIA tried to corner the world supply and
buy it all up. From '40 to '47 the US Army conducted numerous
experiments in hypnosis, and Estabrooks, Watkins and Fischer were the
prominent researchers. In 1950 Richard Helms was the DCI and was
accompanied by two doctors who visited the USA embassy annex in Japan
where four Japanese were suspected of being Soviet agents and they were
interrogated with sodium amitol and Benzedrine and after experiencing
the ultimate injections of these depressants and stimulants for 24 hours
the CIA documents indicate that the guys confessed. In October of the
same year the team flew to Korea where they conducted similar tests on
twenty-five North Korean POWs and this time they had no success. Now
these are just some of the highlights of the kind of research and the
way this thing developed. That same year in 1950, the director of the
Research Center for Addiction at Lexington, Kentucky kept some men on
LSD for 77 straight days and addicts were paid off in heroin if they
took part in the CIA drug test. In '51 McGills University's Donald Held
received a $23,000 contract with Canada's Defense Research Board to
study methods of producing attitude change through perceptual isolation
have also received $30,000 from Rockefeller Foundation for similar
research. And I'm going to get to Candy Jones in just a minute. In '5l,
scientists representing the US CIA, Canada's DRB and Great Britain's MI6
met on June first to discuss sharing their research findings on mind
control. Britain's Henry Tissard said his country had not, at that time,
conducted any such research. And of course the CIA representatives are
Carl Haskins and R.J. Williams. In '52 the Department of Navy awarded
$300,000 to a Dr. Richard Wendt of the University of Rochester to
conduct mind control research, originally known as "Project Chatterbox".
This secret project was later renamed "Project Castigate" after the CIA
got involved. Wendt claimed he had a substance that would rnake anyone
talk but he refused to disclose the ingredients and his research was
carried out in Frankfurt, West Germany. After some effort the
cryptocracy learned that Wendt was using dexadrine secanol and
tetrahydrocanibanol. The records did not say that the CIA used his own
potion on Wendt to obtain this information.

MC: And this is a footnote to say that this is some of your mad doctors
and even they couldn't control this fellow. He's sort of a legend as
being really out there.

WR: Yeah, in '53 "Operation Artichoke" used subjects who were suspected
of being double agents and individuals of "dubious loyalty" in mind
control experiments and that went on for ten years. And years later the
Congressional investigation revealed that it was satisfied with six
drugs it had developed for use in a variety of operations. So in the
same year, 1953, the CIA rented adjacent apartments in Greenwich village
where they photographed unsuspecting civilian guinea pigs as they
reacted to drugs as they were slipped surreptitiously into their drinks.
The agency claimed that only 53 subjects were drugged in this field
experiment and in the same year CIA funded National Institute of Mental
Health (NIMH) grants which found their way to the University of
California, Berkeley, where Timothy Leary was hard at work studying how
to diagnose personality. There he was introduced to the cryptocracy by
his drinking buddy, Frank Baron. In 1954, CIA secret grants flowed to
Harvard where Ph.D. Timothy Leary was conducting a study of how to
change behavior by giving prisoners LSD in the Concord Corrections
Facility. Leary's boss at Harvard was David McClellan Former OSS
employee. In 1955 to '59 MKUltra Mind Control Research was conducted at
forty-four US colleges and universities in the United States and

Canada. In 1956 the society for the Investigation of Human Ecology
headed by Herald Wolf gave Canadian Dr. Ewing Cameron $38,000 plus for
psychic driving experiments. It was revealed years later that the
society was a CIA front organization. A little footnote on that. That
human ecology group funded John Max's early stuff.

WR: You know there's another footnote to that, too. If my memory serves
me well, I think it's mentioned ... it's either in Mass Murderers in
White Coats, the one by Lenny Lapin. I believe Margaret Singer was
connected with this group.

WB: And Robert J. Lifton was a partner of Max.

WR: Now, Singer went on to join the Occult Awareness Network. In fact
she was the big front person out there at Waco.

MC: In fact I was sitting there watching Waco burn down and she looms on
my TV and I almost fainted right in my living room! There are folks! We
have to be sure we can track these faces, that why we're going back this
way.

WR: So to continue, in 1957 the Technical Services Division of CIA moved
six drugs from the experimental category to the operational category.
The CIA operators used LSD and psychoactive chemicals on 33 targets in 6
different operations. This is all official, released by the CIA.

MC: That's the point. This is what we know about.

WB: In 1952, and it went on until 1962, the MKUltra experiments
continued but in the end it was announced that the CIA experiments
scored no major breakthrough with LSD or any other of the 149 different
drugs that they experimented with. They said they found no effective
truth drug, recruitment pill or aphrodisiac. They could not control any
body's mind. They were unsuccessful in creating even one Manchurian
candidate, the classified documents said. In 1959 to 1971 pinup poster
girl Candy Jones or Jessica Wilcox was involved in years of courier and
sex operations under the CIA's MKUltra direction. She used aliases such
as Arlene Grant and is thought to be one of the first presidential
models along with Marilyn Monroe by other surviving presidential models.
She was a multiple personality - she had MPD. So that brings us up to
Candy Jones.

MC: I have a questions. I would like to know if you have this
information. All right, here we have a scenario of drug use by the
government on the population. At what point did we have our freelancers
going out there and using these drugs for profit and for play out on the
streets. Because I know there must have been a leak and where do you
think that happened?

WB: Well, we know that some of the drug labs Leary was connected with
and that Billy Hitchcock got involved in funding and banking, putting
the profits in the Swiss banks. That's all public information in the
courts and that happened throughout this period in the 60's and into the
70's apparently.

MC: Was that freelance or was the government involved with those profits
and the manufacture.

WB: See this is the way the visible government works. Hitchcock went to
school with all the spooks. His dad was the roommate, Tommy Hitchcock.
was the roommate in WWII with David Bruce who was the Chief of
Technological Intelligence of OSS. Avril Harriman was a family

friend. They're part of the establishment. So even though they were
making profits from this no questions but there was an intelligence
atmosphere around this whole thing. And we have the records in the CIA
files of the CIA contacting Leary and Alsley and Huxley and various
other people.

MC: The reason I ask is because when you talk about a time-line about
the experimentation with LSD and various other drugs, five or six of
them, my experience was that I was in a program but I want to know
whether it was sanctioned by the University of California or whether it
was a freelance. Is there documentation to that effect?

You can probably find your files in there, except that Richard Helms
destroyed 152 separate files. But we have reason to believe that ...

WR: Now back in, I'm not sure which year - it might have been in '78 -
it might even have been 1980, but it was quite a few years ago. There
was a little blip byline that I believe appeared in Freedom Magazine in
which you mentioned that you had proof or that you had Leary admit that
he was working for the CIA.

WB: Yes I even have an audio tape of it.

MC: I'd like to interject this before people think I'm a nut case. I
have never had, as far as I could see, any bad effects of any of the
things in the program that I was in. In fact, I think it's enhanced me
as a human being. I do not use this as an endorsement to use drugs. I am
not a drug addict. I never have been. But I have to say that some of the
work was done by a lot of very legitimate people into me mind and into
the expansion of mind. It's unfortunate that these people used it to
hurt mankind when there was probably a point where it could have been
used to help people.

WB: Well, the strange thing about all this government testing and
everything is that it's as old as our history and very often it comes
out of war. And of course we were in a thing called the Cold War at the
time. Even though it may have been an artificial war it was a war for
the battle for men's minds.

WR: And their pocketbooks.

WB: Oh yeah, but I mean grab their minds, their pocketbooks follow you
know. As a matter of tact, one high ranking ... on CCN-it was on there
once, when the Soviet Union fell and the whole thing fell apart, they
flew a guy back to New York, a high-ranking KGB officer Karl somebody or
other-l can't pronounce his name-and he said ... they asked him why did
this fall apart - collapse? And he said America won the battle for the
mind. And that was it. And they did it once and they never put it on
again.

MC: It's one of those things you hear and you just want the rest.

WB: Leary and those boys were all involved and of course it was involved
many Hollywood characters were involved. John Lilly was around. You know
the famous story about Court Meyer's wife, Mary Meyer and Leary. And she
was turning on President Kennedy and John Kennedy and then she was
murdered. And so there's a lot of CIA ... there were several factions in
the CIA. Now we know for example Olson - Frank Olson - who in "Operation
Mind Control #1. I forgot what I said, in '78 he pushed, fell or
otherwise exited from the whatever Story.

MC: And his wife very recently got compensation.

WB: Well more than that. They exhumed his body just a year ago and they
found out he was dead before he left the window. He was thrown out. They
crushed his skull and threw him out the window. You know so someone
killed him. Now, it wasn't LSD at all. Probably LSD wasn't even involved
in that.

MC: They used that as a cover.

WB: As a cover.

WR: Which brings us back to how on a lot of things in order to get at
the truth you have to go through a lot of cut out stories and layers.

MC: So what's happened with that case since then?

WB: We don't know about that but they're going to reopen the suit.
Murder is a different case.

WR: Now he was running around with the crowd Gottlieb ...

WB: Lashbrook ...

WR: White, Colonel White ...

WB: Was he there?

WR: I don't know if he was in the room hut he was part of that crowd.

WB: Colonel White was one of the most insidious part because he was part
of the Bureau of Narcotics and dangerous drugs. It was a precursor, his
behavior's been linked to "the war on drugs" operations of the DEA.

MC: He was a cop!

WB: He's a smuggler and he used the drugs and he sold the drugs.

MC: Who does that sound like? It's sounds like so many of our political
fellows we have running around now who are nothing more than fancy drug
pushers.

WR: Well they had to have a role model!

WB; We know for a fact that what the government denies free enterprise
supplies. And it's well documented that if you make something illegal,
no matter what you do you give power to it and people want it if you say
you can't have it. So that raises price and then in comes the
underground economy. And that's one of the reasons ... the underground
economy is bigger than the regular economy in the United States of
America. And that's one of the reasons they want to do away with the
income tax.

MC: So the next thing we're talking about here is what I see in this
time-line is drugs being used at a certain point. Now I guess what we're
going to continue on is when they get beyond drugs into the next step of
the occult. These things keep moving along. The attempts to control ...

WB: Now the occult has always been with us. T he occult is any myth,
metaphor or symbol in your mind, in my mind, in any body's mind that
means something.

WR: Just like me word "crypto" means "secret" "occult" means "hidden".

WB: That's it. It's something inside yourself. Now if I know that you
think that you had a mystical experience and it involved butterflies,
I'm going to use a butterfly to control you. If neurolinguistics
programming has taught us anything it has taught us that if you
understand a person's beliefs you can manipulate by their own beliefs.
So that's what all the symbolology is about. I would like to take
exception and maybe this is not the appropriate time to do it with the
word "occult" because it means a "small group". that's all it means. And
I think that we're misplacing what is a tribal, even a McCluan approach
would be appropriate, a retribalization is going on. Our families have
failed us. Family society has failed us. Therefore people are looking to
"gangs" and "cults" and other things to replace the failure of the
family. These are tribal things.

WR: sort of a surrogate family you might say.

WB: Yeah, someone said to me there is no such thing as a homeless
person. There are only people without a tribe. And they are tribeless
people. And if you think McCluan predicted this in the 60's. And in fact
its playing out right now m the information age mat we are retribalizing
and there is a realignment. You know your family isn't going to support
you as much as the members of your own People that are locked together
in a like belief system.

MC: And that is exactly what I was saying in the beginning of this, that
its up to us to hold ourselves together, to trust and to love and to
share these concepts and ideas so that we can protect the tribe of
humans. Because the tribe of humans are dying!

WB: The tribe of humanity. And here I go again saying about this new
technology leapfrogging to the end of the story, fast forward from the
50's to the 90's. OK in 1963 CIA personnel helped the underground
chemists in the San Francisco hay area set up illegal laboratories to
manufacture LSD and related psychedelic drugs. President John Kennedy
decided to do away with the federal deficit and was considering taking
monetary production away from the Federal Reserve Board when he was
assassinated in a public blood ritual traumatizing the nation. Was the
media used to issue the imbedded commands? Good question. What's the
first thing that changed that came to your mind alter the assassination
You have to ask yourself.

WR: Well, the first change was the Vietnam War was back on track and
escalated.

MC: Which was also of course a blood letting and vary ritualistic. War
being one of the primary sacrificial aspects of human life.

WB: Yeah, so the way it would happen is trauma, then suggestion. And
then the suggestion would forever change something in the public
consciousness. What do you think; that was?

MC: Public execution for one - assassination.

WB: I think that after the assassination of John Kennedy people no
longer believed in the government.

MC: Oh yes, but I mean the whole idea of the fact that it could be done.

WR: What was practiced overseas by the CIA had come home to roost at
that point.

MC: I see what you're saying.

WB: Now they feared the government. And I think it was done on purpose
in public. They could have ... I understand attempts were made to kill
him in private. Yes, so it's like a parental control. Like a punishment
concept.

WB: So now you guys are going to get in line because we can even kill
your president. And I understand from survivors in those days, women who
that are now in their forties, most of them late forties, who were
teenagers at the time Kennedy was assassinated, their handler came to
them. These were traumatized women, abused women, controlled women that
were being used as gorgeous little sex slaves and their handlers came to
them and said, "See? We can kill Kennedy; we can kill anybody." And this
has been repeated to me several times in several interviews by various
people.

MC: Now here's something off the cuff: Marilyn Monroe had a history of
abuse and had gone to foster homes and various things. Do you think she
could have been a mind control subject?

WB: The survivors have told me that she was. They know more about it
than I do. But they said the pattern of her life and her behavior
indicates that she was one of the first so-called presidential models.
And you know she was right up there sleeping at the top.

MC: That's right. Because you know all the things that I've read ...
many books ... Susan Strasburg's book is very interesting because it
shows that personality. That she was different personalities with
different people. Everyone knew a different Marilyn Monroe according to
Susan Strasburg. We may have a different personality changing.

WB: So we may have another Candy Jones. And that's what they said. In
1964, the DCI and the CIA Director Richard Helms ordered that a Soviet
defector, KGB Colonel Yuri Senko undergo psychiatric evaluation to
determine if he was telling the truth. Now Senko gave the CIA
information about bugs in the US embassy in Moscow and named over twenty
KGB sleeper agents in the west. After 3 1/2 years in the hands of the
mind control specialists, he was released. Helms remained skeptical of
this Senko story some which eventually proved to be true. In '65-'66,
the CIA funded project Operation Resurrection which subjected
lobotomized apes to radio telemetric electronic brain stimulation. The
apes brains were stimulated by wires implanted inside their skulls for a
while. Then their heads were decapitated and transferred to other bodies
to see if energy from radio frequency could revive the animals. In 1966,
other apes were bombarded with radar waves which saut�ed their brains
within their craniums. Today that technology is available through a
private company, run by a former government weapons engineer in
Alamagordo, New Mexico. And does this not sound like Nazi
experimentation?

--[cont]--
Aloha, He'Ping,
Om, Shalom, Salaam.
Em Hotep, Peace Be,
Omnia Bona Bonis,
All My Relations.
Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
Amen.
Roads End
Kris

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