-Caveat Lector-

In answer to the question of a day or two ago about the background of the
Forbes family, here's an article of interest from:


Although her husband lived nearby and visited her frequently, Ruth Paine was
separated from Michael Ralph Paine while she knew OSWALD. On November 13,
1963, Ruth Paine filed a petition for a divorce from Michael Paine in
Domestic Relations Court. This petition stated they were married on December
28, 1957, and separated on September 1, 1962: "This petition alleged that
about six months before their separation, Michael Paine commenced a course
of unkind, cruel, harsh and tyrannical treatment and conduct toward Ruth
Paine of such a nature as to render their future living together
insupportable." [DK-105-1716-Hosty] Wilmer Joseph Stratton, a close friend
of Ruth Paine, told the FBI that Ruth Paine, in the past, "complained of the
fact that Michael Paine was so engrossed in his activities that he spent
little time with his family and when with them, he was so absorbed in his
thoughts and plans that he rarely discussed family matters or showed an
interest in any way with problems concerning Ruth or other members of the
family." Paul Lacy, the best man at Michael and Ruth Paine's wedding stated:
"He had never gotten to know Michael Paine due to his reserved disposition.
He said that he knew of no close friends or associates of Paine's. He stated
Paine is the type of person who while friendly, is very quiet an
uncommunicative and involves himself in his own affairs and never takes time
to seek out friendly relations with other people or to become interested in
other people or their activities." In 1960 Michael Paine inherited money
from his maternal grandmother, Elsie Cabot Forbes. Under terms of her will,
each of her 15 grandchildren were to receive equal shares of a fund when
they reached the age of 21. The appraised value of Michael Paine's share of
this fund as of January 1, 1963, was $269,000.00



Michael Ralph Paine was born into the Paine and Forbes families on June 25,
1928. He attended Harvard University and was dropped because of low grades.
He was noted as being shy and lazy. His only activities were Glee Club, Bach
Coral Group and Outing Club. He then worked at the prestigious Bartol
Scientific Research Foundation at Swathmore University. He served in the
U.S. Army from July 15, 1952, to April 28, 1954, and received an Honorable
Discharge. His military service record contained the statement dated July
15, 1952: "The following inductee, Paine, was inducted today but refused to
take the oath of allegiance." [FBI 105-82555 NR 12.17.63] Like Ruth Hyde,
Michael Paine's family also traced back to the CIA. Michael Paine's maternal
grandmother, Elise Cabot Forbes, was the brother of Thomas Dudley Cabot, the
President of United Fruit in 1948. Michael Paine commented: "He was active
in the United Fruit Company. I only know we were related to the Cabots
through Elise, my grandmother. I wouldn't recognize a Cabot, I've never seen
one." The brother of Thomas Dudley Cabot, John Moors Cabot, was the
Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs during OPERATION PB
SUCCESS. John Moors Cabot visited Guatemala and reported: "Jacobo Arbenz had
the pale, cold-lipped look of the ideologue and showed no interest in my
suggestions for a change in his government's direction. He had obviously
sold out to the communists, and that was that." John Moors Cabot held a
large block of shares in United Fruit. [Mooney, Brown, Truman to Carter, p77
as cited in Washington Silhouettes] During the Truman Administration, John
Moors Cabot was the Director of the International Security Affairs Office
for the Department of State. In 1961 he offered the use of one of his
companies, Gibraltar Steamship, to the CIA during the Bay of Pigs. Ruth
Paine commented that these personages were "out of where I come from."


The mother of Michael Paine was Ruth Forbes. Ruth Forbes was a
great-granddaughter of Ralph Waldo Emerson. Ruth Forbes grandfather, who
died in 1937, had been a founder and former president of American Telephone
and Telegraph.


Michael Paine commented, "Uncle Cam [Cameron], W.C. Forbes, yes, there were
five brothers there, actually one of them died earlier, but five that I
knew. Forbes was Governor of the Philippines and Ambassador to Japan."

David Cabot Forbes was another of Michael Paine's maternal uncles. David
Cabot Forbes was a distinguished Bostonian financier who owned Naushon
Island, located a half-mile from Cape Cod. David C. Forbes told the United
States Secret Service that "during the summer months Paine and his wife Ruth
usually came to Naushon Island, at Woods Hole, Massachusetts, and remained
there a few weeks each summer, but for the past two years Paine has not
appeared and his wife and two children came along alone while he remained in
Texas. He stated that he realized there was a family strain, but did not pry
into the whys and the wherefores; that during the first two weeks in August
1963, Ruth Hyde Paine came to Naushon Island and remained there with the
children for the two week period, residing with Mrs. Arthur Young, who has a
home on the island. The island is owned by the Forbes estate and has been
owned by this family for over 100 years. At present there are approximately
20 houses and 500 sheep on the island. All inhabitants are members of the
Forbes family and very seldom, if ever, are any homes rented or leased to
outsiders." Ruth Paine disagreed: "David didn't own that island. No
individual does," however Michael Paine stated: "The island has been owned
by the descendants of J. M. Forbes who bought it in 1834. I'm the fifth
generation." One such outsider to rent from the Forbes family was J.
Richardson Dilworth. The Secret Service reported that Dilworth "is employed
by the Rockefeller Brothers, New York, New York. He resides at 141 Hodge
Road, Princeton, New Jersey." [CD 687 p1252] In 1964 an employee of J.
Richardson Dilworth, William T. Coleman, was an Assistant Counsel to the
Warren Commission.


The paternal grandfather of Michael Paine, George Lyman Paine, Senior (born
July 29, 1874; died September 1967), was a descendant of a signatory to the
Declaration of Independence. He graduated from Harvard University in 1896.
An Episcopal Priest, he described himself as a pacifist. He was in the War
Resistors League, and was involved in a lawsuit around the time of World War
I, after a Naval officer stormed into his office and hit him for flirting
with his wife. The Reverend George Lyman Paine defended himself on the
witness stand by saying he had driven her out to the meadows around Boston
and "tickled her under the chin" with a piece of "Timothy grass." From then
on he was known as "The Reverend Timothy Grass Paine."

Herbert Philbrick wrote: "The Communist use of the Paine family is a tragic
reminder that the seeds of Marxism bear evil fruit. During my years as a
counterspy, I frequently came across George Lyman Paine Sr. as a sponsor and
supporter of numerous communist-front activities. Paine fathered George
Lyman Paine, Jr...a follower of Leon Trotsky."Michael Paine commented, "It
sounds exaggerated about my grandfather, he was a subscriber to Readers
Digest. Compared to his son, I never thought of him as a radical."


The father of Michael Paine, George Lyman Paine Jr., was born in New York
City on November 16, 1901. He married Ruth Forbes on March 20, 1926, at
Milton, Massachusetts. They were divorced in 1934 and George Lyman Paine Jr.
married, Frances Drake, a follower of Leon Trotsky, the Russian Communist
leader who believed in waging war against Capitalism rather than encouraging
internal revolution. Leon Trotsky, exiled to Mexico, was assassinated by
Soviet agents in 1940. Lyman Paine was a Trotskyist and wrote: "I came into
contact with Marxism. The writings of Marx, Lenin, Engels and Trotsky opened
new doors upon an old world...I became a follower of Leon Trotsky and a
partisan of the world working class." [25th Ann. Rep. Harvard Class of 1922]
Ruth Paine commented: "He was involved in left-wing politics before their
marriage. That was part of the problem with the marriage." Michael Paine
agreed: "He was very political before that, that was one of the difficulties
they had." Michael Paine's parents separated when he was four years old.
Ruth Paine: "It was not because of Trotskyism that he did not see his
father. People didn't divorce as much then, as they do now, and there was
much less skill and knowledge on how to deal with being co-parents. My
understanding from Ruth Forbes was that she and Lyman thought it would be
best to make a clean break and not see each other. Michael didn't really get
acquainted with his father until he was grown." Michael Paine: "I saw my
father very occasionally. He was an idealist. I won't say that he didn't
love us. He considered his political actions far more important then tending
to his own little personal thing of raising his family. I do remember going
to Communist meetings with him in New York City. That absorbed his time, he
didn't have much interest his children. I did not feel any resentment
against the left. I admired his idealism in High School and I mentally or
emotionally followed a tact that was quite similar to my father, but it led
me in quite a different direction. In high school I had a long daydream of a
better society. The nature of it did not fit with Socialists or Communists.
During the war, my father may have gone under a pseudonym and his wife
Freddie was very active in union organizing. The Trotskyites biggest quarrel
was not with the Democrats or Republicans, but with the Stalinists. My
father called the Soviets 'state capitalists.' No friendly blood there."


Mary Bancroft, who claimed she had an intimate association with Allen
Dulles, knew Lyman Paine: "Two of our Boston friends, Ruth and Lyman Paine,
had moved to New York and gave wonderful parties in their West Side
apartment. We met a lot of their friends, mostly in the arts. Ruth was a
painter. Lyman, an architect, was interested in what he termed 'The ultimate
reality,' which I interpreted as my old friend, Truth. Lyman and I had
endless discussions about this ultimate reality while sipping highballs of
bathtub gin and ginger ale..." [Bancroft, Autobiography of a Spy p54]
Abigail Schaffner, who knew Michael Paine until he was seven years old gave
Allen Dulles information on Michael Paine which ANGLETON gave to the FBI:

TO: E. J.Brennan, Jr. DATE: December 9, 1963

FROM: S.J. Papich


Enclosed herewith is a copy of a memorandum dated December (?) 1963, which
Allen Dulles, former Director of the CIA received from a friend, not
identified. The document, which was furnished to the liaison Agent on
December (?) 1963, by JAMES ANGLETON, CIA, sets forth information concerning
the family of Michael Paine. [FBI 105-126129-61 NR 199 12.17.63]


On March 13, 1964, Edward and Abigail Schaffner were interviewed by the FBI
in Miami, Florida. They said they were 'employed from 1930 to about 1942,
and then again immediately after World War II until about 1948, at the
Forbes Estate, Naushon Island, Woods Hole, Massachusetts. During these
periods, Edward Schaffner was employed in a caretaker capacity, and also
assisted in the operation of a ferry boat owned by this estate which
traveled from the island to Woods Hole. Abigail Schaffner was employed
part-time in a domestic capacity. Her father, William Allen, was
superintendent of the caretakers at this estate.

During the above periods the Schaffners knew Michael Paine as a small child,
and later as a teenager, when he visited the estate during the summer school
vacations." [FBI 105-1717-181]

The letter to Dulles: "It has been reported in the press that a Mrs. Michael
Paine had given shelter to Mrs. Oswald and her children -- and that Michael
Paine, who is separated from his wife, liked to talk politics and philosophy
with OSWALD. All I know -- second hand -- about Mrs. Paine is that she is a
Quaker and had 'studied Russian.' However I know about Michael Paine's
background and knew him until he was seven years old. He is now
approximately 35. His mother is Mrs. Arthur Young of 1810 Delancy Place,
Philadelphia. Mrs. Young was born Ruth Forbes. Her mother was a Cabot and
her father was Ralph Waldo Forbes, a direct descendant of Ralph Waldo
Emerson. Ruth Forbes was also a cousin or niece of Cameron Forbes, one time
Governor of the Philippines and U.S. Ambassador to Japan. Ruth Forbes had
been married three times, Arthur Young being her first husband. He is an
inventor (having 'invented' the helicopter.') I put this in parenthesis
because, I believe, he invented improvements to the helicopter rather than
he machine itself -- but am not sure. In any case, he is wealthy -- as is
his wife -- and in recent years he had devoted himself entirely to
researches in what is know under the general heading of ESP (Extra-Sensory
Perception). (He believes that there is another 'force' in the universe --
like electricity or similar -- that has not yet been tapped). His researches
have been extremely complicated an esoteric and he has worked with the
Institute for Advanced Studies at Princeton -- consulted with them -- and
also with Bell Laboratories. Ruth Young's first husband -- and Michael
Paine's father -- was Lyman Paine who father, Reverend George Lyman Paine --
descendant of a signer of the Declaration of Independence -- was a famous
Boston crackpot. He was involved in a lawsuit around the time of World War
I, after a Naval officer stormed into his office and slapped or hit him for
flirting with the Naval officer's wife. The Reverend Paine on the witness
stand defended himself by saying that his relations with the Naval officer's
wife had been entirely harmless. He had simply driven her out to the meadows
around Boston and 'tickled her under the chin with a piece of 'Timothy
Grass.' From then on the Reverend Paine was known as 'Timothy Grass' Paine.
I understand he is still alive and in his late 80's -- if not older. He is,
of course, Michael Paine's grandfather.

"Lyman Paine, Michael's father -- and Ruth Young's first husband -- was an
architect -- but around 1930 -- 34 after divorcing Ruth, he became a
'Trotskyite' and married a girl active in Trotskyite circles. However,
typical of the sort of New England crackpot tradition, they were not real
Trotskyites, but belonged to some infinitesimal splinter group that as far
as I know did nothing but sit around and talk, talk about how the other
Trotskyists were 'betraying the Revolution' as conceived by Trotsky. I have
not heard for many years anything about Lyman Paine. I believe he and his
wife lived -- in the 30's -- in California...Mrs. Young is very much upset
about recent happenings and my friend who is her cousin -- although I also
know Mrs. Young very well -- 'imagines' that the fact that Lyman Paine was
such a talky, talky 'Trotskyite' will lend to Michael's association with
OSWALD an implication that in reality it may not have. In other words,
Michael's talk may well have been -- although not necessarily was -- simply
an offshoot of what he knew to be his father's interests. My own evaluation
of Lyman Paine, whom I also knew well in the 1920's, is that he could not do
anything, that he was thoroughly incompetent. However, he sure could talk.
And I think that it should be pointed out that granted the social position
and standing of someone like Michael Paine -- plus someone of his obvious
advantages -- for advantages he did have -- and education -- that for a
character like OSWALD to tune in on what all this must have meant to him
could actually be a 'trigger." I have also heard, but not from his mother,
that Michael had homosexual tendencies -- although he did marry and have


George Lyman Paine moved to the West Coast where he became part of the
Forest-Johnson Faction, a Trot splinter group. The Johnson-Forest faction
was a group of former Socialist Worker's Party members who broke away from
the Socialist Worker's Party in 1951 over the question of whether Yugoslavia
should be considered a 'worker' state. George Lyman Paine Jr. and his wife
were described as the brains behind the Forest-Johnson Group in the Los
Angeles area. The Forest-Johnson then broke into the Forest Faction and
Johnson Faction. In 1964 the Johnson faction had six members.


Lyman Paine was a factionalist - he was more interested in debating the fine
points of Socialism then in defeating the capitalists. He was an armchair
revolutionary. OSWALD wrote that he hated the "factional mutants...odd ball
Hegelian idealists out of touch with reality."


Abigail Schaffner wrote, "Michael Paine from the minute he was born was a
strange child. He yelled all the time, was afraid of everything, very
destructive and generally weird. His mother, a very placid person, was in
despair coping with him, as he would become excited at just about anything."
The FBI reported a file from the Military Personnel Records Center in Saint
Louis, Missouri, concerning Michael Paine, "contains the following
statement: (deleted)." Ruth explained: "When he was sworn into the Army
during the Korean war he indicated that he refused to follow orders he felt
were immoral." The CIA checked its "security and foreign indices" and
reported "no reference identifiable with Subject." [FBI 105-126129-44]


The stepfather of Michael Paine was Arthur Young, an inventor who helped
perfect the helicopter. Arthur Young helped found Bell Helicopter. Michael
Paine was a research engineer at Bell Helicopter with a high security
clearance. [WCD 208, 213]


Walter R. Dornberger, a senior vice president of Bell Helicopter, was a
former Nazi general who supervised the construction of the first guided
missile, developed by Werner von Braun. He was an ardent supporter of Adolf
Hitler and used slave labor to build his missiles. After the perfection of
the V-2 rocket in 1942, Dornberger directed the bombardment of London with
V-2's late in the war. From 1945 to 1947 he was held as a prisoner-of-war in
Great Britain. He was brought to the United States in 1950. FBI files
indicated "that this individual is a German scientist brought to the United
States under the custody and control of the Joint Intelligence Objectives

In 1957 it was alleged that Dornberger was still a Nazi:

Airtel TO: Director, FBI

FROM: SAC, Los Angeles (105-5122) December 3, 1957

RE: Werner Von Braun and Walter Dornberger.

Regarding Los Angeles letter to the Bureau, October 11, 1951, captioned
(Deleted) INFORMATION CONCERNING; Albany letter to the Bureau November 9,
1951, titled "Guy Boisino del Vall, Misc;" two Washington Field airtels to
the Bureau and Los Angeles, July 30, 1954; Washington Field airtel to the
Bureau and Los Angeles, August 1, 1954; Los Angeles airtel to the Bureau
August 6, 1954, setting out background information concerning (Deleted) and
Los Angeles airtels to the Bureau, August 13, 1954, and August 23, 1954, all
captioned "(Deleted) Misc. Info Concerning,"

Referenced communications deal largely with de Valle efforts to interest the
Department of the Navy and Air Force in (Deleted) and his efforts to have
the FBI assist him in this regard.

Enclosed herewith is a blank memorandum with five copies to the Bureau
concerning the captioned individuals.

On December 2, 1957, (Deleted) advised ASAC Ralph W. Machman (Deleted) had
been in (Deleted) office on December 2, 1957, and claimed to have
information that Von Braun is still a Nazi.

On December 3, 1957, (Deleted) interviewed by SA's (Deleted) and (Deleted)
and furnished information which is set up in enclosed blank memorandum.

(Deleted) advised that his primary purpose in contacting (Deleted) was to
attempt to have either (Deleted) of the FBI arrange and introduction of
(Deleted). He said if (Deleted) believed that this (Deleted) that it would
tend to prove the activities of Von Braun and Dornberger have not been in
the best interests of the United States. (Deleted) was advised that the
Bureau could not arrange such an introduction. (Deleted) One copy of each
blank memorandum is being furnished for San Francisco (Deleted) California,
Birmingham (Werner Von Braun, Huntsville, Alabama) and Albany (Walter
Dornberger, Ithaca, New York).

Another FBI document stated: "FBI files and other agency files of the FBI do
not contain any derogatory information concerning Dornberger. Files of the
Cincinnati Office revealed that (Deleted) the subject of Bufile entitled
(Deleted). A review of this file reflected that (Deleted) was very pro-Nazi
and might be a security threat to the United States. Investigation revealed
that (Deleted) may have made statements which were considered pro-German,
but many of these statements (Deleted) later denied, others, he insisted,
were misinterpreted. A large number of neighbors, friends and acquaintances
testified to (Deleted)'s loyalty to the United States. There was no evidence
of organizational activity. The facts of this case were presented to the
United States Attorney on November 13, 1943, who informed that in view of
existing court decisions and policies of the Department, this was not a
strong enough case to institute denaturalization proceedings against
(Deleted). Confidential Informant T-1, another Government agency which
conducts security type investigations, advised that their files contained no
record of derogatory information regarding Dornberger and no record of any
security violations.

In 1958 Dornberger was considered for a non-sensitive position with the
United States Government. The FBI reported: "No investigation of this
individual is being conducted by the FBI in the absence of a specific
request. This is not to be considered as a clearance or disapproval of this
individual by the FBI for Federal employment." Dornberger died in July 1980.
[FBI 140-0-497321; Newsweek 7.14.80]

Bell Helicopter supplied many CIA-sponsored dictators, such as the Shah of
Iran, with materiel. The Textron Corporation, which eventually purchased
Bell Helicopter, was investigated for having paid millions of dollars in
kickbacks to an Iranian sales agency. Bell Helicopter was a member of the
Aircraft Manufacturers Association, like Lockheed, Martin-Marietta and the
General Dynamics Corporation. This Association was represented by Albert
Jenner when it was a defendant in a Federal antitrust lawsuit.
[72-Civ-1307-USDC-NY] Albert Jenner went over Ruth Paine's account of OSWALD
with her on the morning that she testified. [WC Paine Testimony p455] He
personally knew the Paine family and generated this memo: "After reading the
attached article, it occurred to me that may be Michael Paine's father,
Lyman Paine, whom I knew well thirty years ago but have not seen since,
possibly did play a role somehow. As I told you before, Lyman Paine was --
and I believe still is -- a Trotskyite, but based on my knowledge of his
ineffective personality and to the fact that I have been told that he
belonged to a small splinter group of the Trotskyites. -- I imagine that all
he ever did was talk. However, granted that Trotsky lived in Mexico -- maybe
Michael knew of connections and maybe names of various individuals was all
OSWALD needed. I don't know if Trotskyites are pro-Castro - but I suppose
they could be anything. I have reflected on whether it would make any sense
to talk to Lyman Paine -- for I imagine I could locate him -- but I am
inclined to think he wouldn't talk -- that he would resent any authority --
for that was always his trouble. However, I think if anyone wanted to talk
to him -- it would be wisest -- and most productive -- to talk first to
Michael Paine's mother, Mrs. Arthur Young, whom I am sure would be
cooperative -- and who could probably tell as much about Lyman Paine as he
would tell himself." [UnID Warren Commission document by Jenner to file]

Ruth Paine claimed her husband only worked for Bell Helicopter for six or
seven years: "He got the job because of his stepfather. Michael is not
somebody who likes the military-industrial complex." Michael Paine was
questioned about his association with Bell Helicopter: "The company was not
like that. Personally, I went out there quite independent of that. My
stepfather invented the Bell Helicopter. Larry Bell from Bell Aircraft in
Buffalo saw it and bought the idea. They got a license around the same time
Sikorsky did in 1941. Then I came along - my mother married Arthur in 1946.
Arthur engaged me to make models and another friend of his, a Vice President
of Bell Helicopter and I were invited to go to Dallas. I stayed for ten
years. Union regulations made it very difficult for an engineer to handle a
tool. I worked on the 'convertaplane' that eventually became the Osprey.
Bell Helicopter was largely a commercial company and it wasn't until the
Vietnam war - maybe they used helicopters in Korea - but it was during the
Vietnam War that Bell Helicopter made 40% of the aircraft that were used. So
it was a vital part of the Vietnam War. I was president of the Committee for
Peaceful Solutions in Vietnam. Bell allowed me to show a movie by a CBS
correspondent which looked favorably on Ho Chi Minh. Another high officer
there named Bob Licten, the promotor of the XB-3, was President of the
Dallas American Civil Liberties Union. He died in an automobile accident.
Bell was more liberal than many other companies that made the major part of
it's income from military sales."


After the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, S.A. Hosty questioned
Mrs. Werner R. Grimes about Michael Paine. She informed S.A. Hosty that "on
two or three occasions in the Fall of 1963, Michael Paine requested that he
be permitted to attend a meeting of the John Birch Society of which Mrs.
Grimes stated she was an active member. Mrs. Werner R. Grimes stated she
invited Michael Paine to attend one John Birch Society meeting at her
residence and later, when this meeting was canceled, she was unable to get
in touch with Michael Paine to advise him of this cancellation. Michael
Paine appeared at her residence for this meeting, which was not held. Mrs.
Grimes stated she then tried on another occasion to get in touch with
Michael Paine and advise him of another meeting but she was unable to get in
touch with Michael Paine." [FBI DL 105-1776 3.15.64 Hosty] Mr. Werner R.
Grimes was interviewed by telephone in April 1993: "No, I was not Michael
Paine's friend, I barely knew him. This was a number of years ago, and I was
interviewed by the FBI at the time because I mentioned to a friend of mine
in the Unitarian Church choir that I had met somebody who knew [OSWALD]. My
job at Bell Helicopter was field engineer in high-pressure hydraulics. I met
Paine in that lab. I don't know if this was the initial meeting, or if I
first met him at the church choir." Werner Grimes was a Unitarian because he
and his wife came from differing Protestant backgrounds. Mrs. Grimes died
about 1983. According to Werner R. Grimes: "Mrs. Grimes was not an active
member of the John Birch Society, although she attended several meetings. I
was at that John Birch Society meeting held in my house, I also was at one
other meeting. Otherwise, I had nothing to do with it." Ruth Paine was asked
if her husband joined the Birchers for counter-intelligence purposes? She
laughed and said, "You live in an entirely different world than me. He was
curious about their beliefs and wanted to see what a meeting would be like.
He figured he'd go and make his own judgments. To him, it was a way of
gathering information. Michael's a freethinker. He doesn't always do what is
politically correct." Michael Paine explained, "I was a member of the
Unitarian Church and was quite proud of the fact there was a member of the
John Birch Society in our church, that it could span that much political
spectrum. I didn't realize he had any connection to Bell Helicopter. I was
distressed because there was no conversation between the liberals and the
right-wing. We both said we cherished freedom of speech, but in practice, my
actions and the right-wing were very far apart. So I was going to various
right-wing seminars and groups trying to discover for myself why they didn't
like the liberal point of view. So I was trying to find a bridge, language,
ideas, that would get back to the root where we agreed and disagreed. I
recall talking with LEE. He was likewise going around to - by the way I did
go to a private home of a right-wing group - I don't recall the name. The
only thing I can remember about it, nobody ever asked me what my point of
view was. I wouldn't have lied about it, I can't lie. But I was glad I
didn't have to tell them. I didn't view myself as spying on them. I was
trying to understand what was the real bug under the skin that made these
people feel that way. I wanted to be able to write something about how we
both cared about freedom of speech, yet they didn't want to give Communists
freedom of speech. And I remember taking LEE OSWALD to an American Civil
Liberties Union meeting. I asked him, in my car, if he would like to join
the American Civil Liberties Union. He said, 'No,' he did not want to give
freedom of speech to the right-wing, Nazis. We had mentioned specifically
Walker at this supper where I had mentioned that I was going around sort of
observing right-wing groups, and he was doing it also. I didn't want to
pursue it further, because I wanted to have a pleasant evening with him. I
didn't find out explicitly, but I assumed he was doing it because he was of
the view that America was controlled by a capitalist cabal, who manipulated
the country to its interests. He thought the church, for instance, was just
'an opiate of the people.' He thought it was manipulated and controlled and
put in place by capitalists who were trying to keep the people happy. And he
wouldn't tell me much about them. I think David Rockefeller was the only
name he ever gave. I surmised that when he was listening in on some of these
right-wing groups, that he thought he was listening to the people who were
behind the actions of this country. I saw them as a fringe groups."

An airtel from the FBI Legal Attache in London dated February 5, 1964,
regarding Michael Paine was almost totally deleted. [FBI 105-126129-44] END

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