-Caveat Lector-
----Original Message Follows----
From: Bill Kingsbury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
At 05:40 PM 9-13-1999 GMT, Sean wrote:
>
>this theory has one serious flaw [seems to me]:
>what on earth would the ADL have to gain from this?
According to Internet reports:
Since they were Christian 'Jews' ('Davidians' are Jews) --
and therefore an especially HATED 'Christian Identity' church
-- moving to Israel was obviously 100% forbidden by both the
Israeli authorities, and the predictably- outraged Orthodox Jews
who hold the balance of power.
......................................................................
Now THAT'S interesting AND it leads me to speculate on some other things. I
have involved myself in several online discussion groups on various
religions including Judaism and Christianity [disclaimer: more of interest
than anything - I have also been on pagan lists]. One thing I continually
got flamed about is STRESSING the fact that Jesus [Yeheshua?] was a DEVOUT
Jew. As such he would accurately acuse modern Christianity as heresy,
blasphemy, and methinks would not want any part in his own deification.
According to the very religion that he devoted himself to, it is tantamount
to hubris. As a devout Judaic WORSHIPPER, how could he spiritually lead
ANYONE being so self-centered as to worship himself. If one argues that he
did not worship himself [as many Christians do while not even realizing it]
but worshipped his father, then it would be ancestor worship and would put
him in the same boat as many pagans [we begin to see why ANY reasonable
scrutiny of doctrines threatens ANY orthodoxy].
So an intelligent follower of Jesus, IMHO, could not ascribe to anything but
some form of Judaism, potentially recognizing Jesus as a prophet [let's not
get into the hiearchy of prophets, i.e. Jesus was MORE prophetic than
Muhammad, etc.].
All of the afore mentioned would be a threat to orthodox Judaism, the
dominant brands of Christianity that deny their Judaic/Pagan merger history
[mediated by Emperor Constantine in the 4th century]. Not only that, but it
would be a threat to much of the foundation of what we call HIStory [who's
story?]. In fact, given that religious doctrines are perhaps the thing that
is most fiercely hammered into the heads of the masses, can one doubt that
some controling element deems such to be necessary to the maintenance of its
own position?
Such things would be a major threat to the cornerstone of society as we know
it - which is a complex maze of taught habits that make it easy for the few
to control the many. If the most fiercely hammered doctrines society has
taught us are IGNORED by people, those people can be deemed capable of what
to the controllers would be a threat and to the pioneering - merely
open-minded. If such a group of people actually had the audacity to arm
themselves with the knowledge of the entire community in which they were
nestled and not, as a result, make the community feel in the least bit
threatened, controllers would say that they are getting away with too much.
A statement must be made to that community. As well, a statement must be
made to ANY that would have the audacity to believe as they wish, assume the
prerogative of being able to defend themselves, and, worst of all, actually
get people to listen. Obviously, the feds [or someone above the feds?] felt
that to be that un-orthodox AND to have the tolerance, and in some cases -
admiration, of a whole typically conservative community that the Davidians
had far too much charisma for their own good.
All it takes to tell such would-be seekers to knock it off would be to burn
a bunch of them alive. Can you say WITCH HUNT? Can you say BURN THEM AT
THE STAKE?
There are a whole slew of power brokering elements in the world that would
feel the need to stamp out such naughtiness.
(The Davidians' property was purchased in early 1959 by
Benjamin Roden, the founder of the Branch Davidians. The
Israeli property remained the property of the church when
Koresh assumed leadership.)
CAN and ADL proved their worth on Waco Holocaust day, but it
'appears' they soon dissolved the Cult Awareness Network,
out of fear they would all be implicated in a court of law.
(Scientology's efforts may? also be partly responsible.)
There was also the PROMIS software biz -- allegedly THE target
of the entire Waco Assault. Vince Foster was deeply involved
in both the Waco Crisis and Systematics' PROMIS software.
Systematics had Israeli subsidiaries -- Boston Systematics
and Israeli Systematics...
(From Conspiracy Nation 4.82: "The ramifications of the
Systematics story could bring down the Clinton presidency.
Just prior to Foster's death, Hillary reportedly told Foster
that his spying for Israel was known; that he was about to be
indicted on charges bordering on treason, making him another
Jonathan Pollard.")
And another alleged issue:
Numerous stolen 50 caliber machine guns (and who knows
what else!) -- stolen in 1959 from the US National
Guard armory in Oxnard, California, and hidden at Waco
(NOT stolen by the Davidians) -- that involved the
Israeli Government, according to the following info :
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
From: "NewsHawk Inc." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999
Subj: WACO--We're Now Finding Out HOW... But WHY??
8.26.99
WACO--We're Now Finding Out HOW The Government Murdered Over 90
... But What About WHY??
This email was received today. We have no way at this moment of
verifying the information within but OUR source is credible.
We have received many messages claiming many different "reasons"
for WHY the government slaughtered the Branch Davidians; however
most such messages we receive are long on supposition and way short
on anything resembling hard, factual evidence. For that reason
this material below stands out from the crowd, and so we offer it
at least as "food for thought" and perhaps even more than that.
John Quinn/NewsHawk Inc.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Hi John,
This was sent to me with cautionary words
advising me to use extreme caution to protect
my source and IF I sent it out to protect myself.
Maybe you have already gotten a copy by now.
IF you use it, please protect my privacy though.
Blessings!
= = = = = = = = = = = = = =
From: XXXXXXXXX XXXXXX XXX
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXX
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999
Subject: Fwd: Waco
While Sen. Lloyd Bentsen was Treasury Secretary he secretly ordered
the BATF to destroy Waco to conceal the fact that stolen National
Guard weapons were concealed there and if exposed would reveal
Menachem Begin's part in the burglaries and trace them back to the
Israeli Government. It would also have exposed William P. Clark's
involvement in the burglaries along with Oxnard Superior Court
Judge Jerome Berenson and his partner, U.S. Commissioner Ben
Nordman and U.S. Appeal Court Judges Harry Pregerson and Stephen R.
Reinhardt.
----------------------------------------------
The above statement comes from a well known web site. The current
stories on Waco focus on "HOW" not "WHY" it all happened. The
evidence being leaked is yet another scam to cover the "WHY".
Time will prove that little will be found to incriminate anyone and
a minor uproar will soon lead to the "final" conclusion while still
protecting those involved.
The National Guard weapons mentioned came from the Oxnard,
California armory, stolen in 1959. Among the weapons were
numerous 50 caliber machine guns. Over the years they have been
mainly under the control of William P. Clark.
David Koresh made a trip for a meeting in Hollywood just a short
time before the Waco siege began. Proof of this meeting can be
found in the many books and some videos on the Koresh story.
The meeting was with the California Mafia, headquartered in Oxnard.
He and other high-up Davidians were paid to hide these 50 cal.
weapons at the compound. When he was ordered to move the weapons
he refused and tried to use the weapons for ransom.
Fearing the weapons would somehow be found if Koresh persisted in
his normal flamboyant ways, the order was given to get them back or
destroy the evidence in any manner necessary.
This is why the ATF went after the compound and never tried to
arrest Koresh in town when he was alone.
After Waco, the official ATF Press Release listed all the weapons,
parts and ammo found in the remains. Strangely, no 50 caliber
weapons were mentioned. Yet, in testimony before Congress, the ATF
and FBI stated that the Davidians had and used 50 caliber weapons.
None were produced as evidence, only 50 caliber projectiles or
bullets were held up as evidence. The actual 50 caliber weapons
found at the Waco compound were the Oxnard 50's.
The Texas Rangers and the FBI knew the origin of these weapons and
have concealed their existence to this day. The serial numbers
will prove where they came from.
To much to believe ? Ask yourself this.
[1] Why was such massive force used against a church for the
suspected violation of child abuse ?? Have you forgotten that the
first reason given was child abuse, dutifully played out by the
Texas media just before the initial raid.
[2] How did the Federal ATF become involved in a State of Texas
law involving child abuse ??
There is a lot of digging for the truth. If anyone comes to close
to the "WHY" for Waco you will see an attempt to divert attention
to the "HOW", just what is happening today.
The 50's are the key to it all. Expose the truth here and you have
all the players, including members of Congress.
Check the records to see the information on the 1959 Oxnard Armory
stolen weapons.
Check the records to see the information on Koresh's trip to
Hollywood.
Check the records to see the BATF Press Release to the media on the
evidence found in the compound.
Check the records to see the statements made before congress on the
use of 50 cal. weapons at Waco.
Check the records to see only 50 cal. bullets were shown to
congress.
Check the records to see that the NRA offered to pay for x-rays of
the so called "illegal" weapons and it was refused.
~~~~~~~
From: "NewsHawk Inc." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999
Subj: More on WHY re: WACO
8.26.99
More on WHY re: WACO
JANET RENO AND LOUIS FREEH ARE A DISGRACE TO THE USA.
WE THE PEOPLE MUST DEMAND THEIR IMMEDIATE RESIGNATION AND
INDICTMENT/CONVICTION FOR HIGH CRIMES INVOLVING THE SEIGE
AT WACO. (PREMEDITATED MURDER)
Recieved from a NewsHawk reader--
We may never get the WHY nailed down, but we do know this- the
front door and the roof will have bullet holes going from the
outside in. The government fired first. The survivors were gunned
down as they tried to escape the flames. The CS gas used was
illegal. 17 little children are dead. The NRA DID offer to x-ray
the weapons. The wreckage of the building was BURIED....
We can expect nothing but more of the same as long as the murdering
bastards who did this continue to draw a public paycheck and enjoy
freedom and privilege....
= = = = = = = = = = = =
Subject: Re: WACO--We're Now Finding Out HOW... But WHY??
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:36:01 -0700
From: "CCW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
John Quinn/NewsHawk:
You need to contact Gareth Wean, author of "There's A Fish In The
Courthouse" - he tells ALL concerning William P. Clark, the Oxnard
National Guard Armory break-ins and the theft of the .50 cal
machine guns which Koresh refused to handover and thus set in
motion the destruction of the Branch Davidian Church.
Gareth joined the Los Angeles Police Dept. in 1946 and graduated
from the academy. He later worked as a Detective Sgt. for the
Ventura City Police Dept. and as an Investigator for the Los
Angeles District Attorney's Bureau of Investigation, the Criminal
Intelligence Unit. In September 1966 he became the Chief
Investigator for the Ventura County Public Defender's Office until
1970. His book, "THERE'S A FISH IN THE COURTHOUSE" exposes ALL of
the judicial corruption in the Federal and State Courts in the
Federal Ninth District. Check out his Website at
http://www.gareth.com/ and be sure to read the several linked items.
JANET RENO AND LOUIS FREEH ARE A DISGRACE TO THE USA.
WE THE PEOPLE MUST DEMAND THEIR IMMEDIATE RESIGNATION AND
INDICTMENT/CONVICTION FOR HIGH CRIMES INVOLVING THE SEIGE
AT WACO. (PREMEDITATED MURDER)
/s/ John R. Prukop
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance does whatever is dictated to it."
--Thomas Paine, Rights of Man ("Conclusion")
"All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void."
--Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. (2 Cranch) 137 (1803)
CCW Coalition: Citizens For A Constitutional Washington
John R. Prukop, Executive Director
11910-C Meridian Ave. E., #142
Puyallup, Washington 98373
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
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CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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