-Caveat Lector-
I'll bow to what appears to be superior knowledge of Sumerian; given the
role of Sumerian as a trade language, it wouldn't surprise me if loanwords
showed up all over the Fertile Crescent. Your point about a possible
Sumerian origin for the Phoenicians is interesting and deserves serious
investigation. And I do know that Hebrew and Arabic weren't created *ex
nihilo*--this is a notion found in both Sufism and Kabbalah at an early date
(see Idries Shah and Gershom Scholem, respectively, for commentary). The
kabbalistic belief was picked up by German scholars in the 18th century,
some of whom tried to derive every known language from Hebrew--there are
still vestiges of this school lingering in odd corners such as British
Israel.
Now to the meat of the mystery (and I apologize for dragging in
Sitchin--that was a bit of polemic on my part): where the heck did the
Sumerians come from? As you note, they were clearly invaders...but they
don't seem to be related to any of the surrounding peoples. The most
intriguing proposal I've seen is that they were colonists from the Indus
Valley (Mohenjo-Daro) civilization--there is definite evidence of trade
contact, and it's not too much of a stretch to visualize an expedition
traveling along the coast of the Indian Ocean and Persian Gulf from India to
Mesopotamia.
Now: more speculation--the pre-Vedic population of the subcontinent (mostly
Dravidian) definitely worshipped a mother goddess; this worship was
syncretized into the Hindu pantheon as Kali/Durga and spread widely as part
of tantric practices, which influenced assorted religions from India to
China and beyond. Shiva, as Lord of the Hunt, is also pre-Vedic, and bears a
strong resemblance to the horned figure (seated in either half-lotus or
tailor's seat) on the Gundestrup cauldron, who is usually identified as
"Cernunnos" or "Belenos" (the Celts were maddeningly vague about their
gods). Conclusion? I honestly don't know. That far back, the "mists of time"
rise up around us and make it next to impossible to discern the truth...
We've probably gotten about as far with this thread as we should, out of
deference to the rest of the list, but I'd be more than willing to continue
the discussion off-list.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Das GOAT [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 5:34 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] [Fwd: Danite Irish]
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 99-10-14 18:19:09 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> >and there is no evidence, as far as I know, that it was ever used as the
> >common speech even in *Sumer*! Was it an artificial language, created ex
> >nihilo as both Arabic and Hebrew were supposed to have been?
>
> As far as I know, Sumerian WAS used as "common" speech in Sumer, at the
> earliest period. In fact, Sumerian had a whole DIALECT specifically for
> commoners, just as it had one for women -- sorta like Japanese in that
> respect. Of course, "common" here may only mean the lower classes among
> the
> conquering race, since the Sumerians were INVADERS in the Persian Gulf,
> and
> there were indigenous people, and immigrant Amorites, Akkadians, etc.,
> aplenty in the same area, each with their own language.
>
> Hebrew and Arabic ex nihilo? No way. Both derive from a "proto-Semitic"
> tongue, of which the best example is Akkadian -- which is nearly IDENTICAL
> to
> early Hebrew.
>
> BTW, I never intended to bring Sitchin into the picture here ... I
> thought
> it interesting, though, that the PHOENICIANS were international traders
> long
> before there were any "Israelites," and amusing that the tribe of "Dan"
> --sea-farers, with territory BORDERING
> Tyre and Sidon-- has somehow been credited with "founding" outposts in
> places
> where the PHOENICIANS already travelled. You know, those swarthy,
> big-nosed,
> dark-haired
> people who show up in Canaanite/Phoenician monuments -- hailed as Celtic
> "Aryans"! One shouldn't be surprised, though, that blue-eyed blondes
> travelled those routes ca. 1500 BC or later, since the "Philistines" of
> Canaan were only Mycenaean Greeks who made a living as mercenaries
> fighting
> for the Egyptians and Phoenicians, and as hired hands of the latter, they
> had
> access to the same (originally Phoenician) trails inward into Europe and
> to
> Ireland via "Tarshish" and Spain. But there's STILL the question of where
> the Phoenicians got their commercial acumen and navigatory knowledge,
> which
> were not evident in either Egypt or mainland Canaan, the two places
> usually
> suggested
> for their origin. I propose SUMERIAN origins for the Phoenicians, for
> several reasons:
> (1) EARLIER, Sumerians were famed as seafarers (Egyptians hated the sea)
> AND
> as traders, (2) the Sumerians also had a reputation as "builders," with a
> distinct "priestly" stone-mason caste (the Egyptian god Ptah of Old
> Kingdom
> times is believed by some to be of SUMERIAN origin), and (3) the Sumerians
> DID found "colonies" as far northeast as Anatolia, not far from Canaan ...
> Why, then, should "Phoenicia" be an exception?
>
> And back to "Dan" -- in Sumerian, the root-word *di(n) means not just
> "judge," but as in Canaanite/Phoenician, and exactly as in HEBREW, it
> originally referred to a SPECIFIC
> kind of "judgment," related to TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE -- and the Hebrew word
> for
> "knowledge," DA'ath, is a truncated form of an original DAN-ath, root D_N,
> just as the Hebrew word for "truth" [which ALSO had a more precise
> meaning,
> being "correctness"
> and "accuracy" in measurement, i.e., a "technical" word] is Ameth, a
> shortening of the original AmeN-eth, as shown by the survival of the
> related
> adjective "Amen," "true-ly."
> (Don't take my word for it -- any good Hebrew etymological text mentions
> the
> latter as the prime example of what scholars call the "vanishing N" in
> Hebrew
> as it developed..)
> Even the linguistics here suggests a people "knowledgeable" in a TECHNICAL
> way, as befits the "Hermetic" engineers/scientists who designed and built
> Solomon's Temple ...
> So what's implied here is intriguing enough WITHOUT invoking Sitchin or
> his
> "aliens" ...
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==========
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
> propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing! These are sordid
> matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
> outright
> frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor
> effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
> readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> ========================================================================
> Archives Available at:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> ========================================================================
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Om
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
========================================================================
Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
========================================================================
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Om
