-Caveat Lector-
Well then, with all that said...
It stands to reason that the Biblical account of Lucifer's beauty should
also be considered. In Genesis he was called the "Serpent", the most
subtile of all the beasts... (this includes man). "Serpent" in this
instance, is interpreted from the Hebrew to mean "glistening one; one who
enchants and casts spells; one who hisses and murmers".
Lucifer is said to have been created perfect in beauty; therefore, the
antichrist, Lucifer, the Devil, the Old Serpent, the Dragon, "et al",
should be classified as the most beautiful, and so does the Bible give him
such traits, unlike common stories that he is ugly, has horns, carries a
pitchfork, while wearing red long-handled underwear.
He's wants to present himself as God, as is described in the greatest
conspiracy of the Bible and according to "Isaiah 14:12-16", since long ago.
(And he will soon get his opportunity to appear as the Messiah). Ezekiel
acknowledged that he was of much beauty and wisdom, according to the letter
to the King of Tyre, of whom when reading on, we find that the King of
Tyre is merely a type of antichrist to come, according to the book of the
same name chapter 28:1-19
In the same passage, we find that this cherub was not animal or human, but
rather a creature called a 'cherub'. The Bible / Hebrew is very
non-descript of this being. It is not directly defined as to what a cherub
actually is, other than a protector of the mercy seat of God, as described
in Exodus regarding the design applications for the ark of the covenant.
However, information can be gathered from the Bible that indicates that this
being is nothing like anything we have ever experienced in our course of
humanity, either living or dead. Cherubs are called "living creatures" in
the Revelation. Cherubs, contrary to popular belief, are not "angels" or
"messengers", but rather a non-mobile creature attached to the presence of
God, that is relatively and totally different than anything we know of,
past or present on the face of the earth, other than Lucifer's temporary
detachment that caused his demise and judgment which is awaiting to be
fulfilled.
Beauty of the physical entity is not the most desired.
It is more the beauty within that is to be desired.
eagle 1
----- Original Message -----
From: "Das GOAT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 6:34 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Wow. At least two people (notably John H. Taylor and Robert Tatman)
jumped
> in with the correct response, in BALLPARK terms, but NEITHER zeroed in on
the
> RELEVANT passages in the Old Testament regarding the UGLINESS of the
> "Suffering Servant" -- allegedly Jesus Christ, as Biblical "prophecy" sees
> it. And predictably, even the correct passages in Mr Taylor's post, from
> http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/j4j-2000/index.html, SKIP OVER the relevant
> verses, OBFUSCATING the entire issue beneath a numbing smokescreen of
> secondary pious "interpretation" and cross-references. How typical!
>
> Okay, let's look right at the statements in question, used to argue that
the
> "Messiah" or "Christ" was or will be UGLY, and was SHUNNED for his
ugliness
> and/or his "disease."
> (Taylor's post is included at the end, so you can watch our AVOIDANCE of
the
> fact.)
>
>
> Isaiah 52:13-15 and 53:2-6 et seq., KING JAMES translation:
>
> 52:13 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be
> exalted and extolled, and be very high.
> 52:14 As many were astonied at thee; HIS VISAGE WAS SO MARRED
> MORE THAN ANY MAN, and HIS FORM [MARRED] MORE THAN THE SONS OF
> MEN:
> 52:15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; THE KINGS SHALL SHUT
> THEIR MOUTHS AT HIM: for that which had not been told them shall
> they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.
> ...
>
> 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant and as a
> root, out of a dry ground: HE HATH NO FORM NOR COMELINESS; and
> WHEN WE SHALL SEE HIM, THERE IS NO BEAUTY that we should DESIRE
> him.
> 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and
> acquainted with grief: and WE HID AS IT WERE OUR FACES FROM HIM;
> he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
> 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our
> sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and
> afflicted.
> 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was
> bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was
> upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
> 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every
> one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of
> us all.
>
> ________________________________________________________
>
> From the HEBREW (Masoretic text), literally translated into English:
>
> 52:13 Watch, my servant who shall minister wisely will be lifted
> up and held high, greatly -- as (great) as the 'disfigurement'
> [MShChTh] of his appearance among (other) men and of his form
> among (other) human beings -- to the astonishment of many.
> 52:14 Thus he 'sprinkles' [=a "purifying" gesture] many (other)
> nations -- (Because) on (seeing} him, kings will be speechless,
> since they will be witnessing something they had never been told
> about and contemplating (something) they had never heard of.
> ...
>
> 53:2 (He was) without stature or attractiveness that might cause
> anyone to notice him, and without impressive appearance that
> might cause anyone to admire him.
> 53:3 (He was) despised and rejected by people, a man of woes,
> having much experience of pain. Others averted their eyes
> from him in disgust, not seeing anything worthwhile in him.
> 53:4 (But) even while we regarded {him} as (one whom) God had
> punished (as if) with the plague and misforune, (it was) really
> OUR pain he held high and OUR woes he carried around.
> 53:5 He was humiliated by OUR misdeeds, (he was) tormented from
> OUR wickedness. In him (there existed) an offense to our peace
> of mind, so by 'whipping' HIM, (we) felt OURSELVES 'restored.'
> 53:6 (We are) all like sheep gone astray, (every) man having
> turned aside his eyes to {pursue} his (own) course -- but through
> HIM, YHWH has made us encounter the wickedness in all of US.
>
> _________________________________________________________
>
> KJV 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened
> not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a
> sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
> KJV 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who
> shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land
> of the living: for the transgression of my people was he
> stricken.
> KJV 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the
> rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was
> any deceit in his mouth.
> KJV 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him
> to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he
> shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure
> of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
> KJV 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be
> satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify
> many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
> KJV 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great,
> and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath
> poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the
> transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession
> for the transgressors.
>
> ___________________________________________________________
>
>
> Was the ugliness --the "disfigurement," hence a PRONOUNCED
> ugliness-- of the "Suffering Servant" described herein merely
> metaphorical, only symbolic? (Since the entire passage is now
> read by Messianic Jews as well as by Fundamentalist Christians as
> a symbolic description of "God's People," FIGURATIVELY maimed and
> afflicted by historic circumstances, awaiting the "redemption" to
> be brought them by the coming of the Messiah or Christ.)
> If his ugliness is "only symbolic," then logically, the
> OTHER "literal" descriptions here of the life of the "Suffering
> Servant" --his capture, his imprisonment, and his disgraceful
> death-- must be "only symbolic" TOO, right?
> No? Then only PART of the "prophecy" is LITERALLY true,
> while the REST of it must be UNTRUE, just "figurative"?
> A case of SELECTIVE "literalness" ... So, Christians get to
> "pick and choose," deciding what, by their own judgment, they can
> "believe" and what they NEED NOT believe written in "God's Word"?
>
> The "out" for LITERALIST Jews is to attribute the foregoing
> description of the "Servant" to MOSES, who was always referred to
> as "My Servant" AND who was described, in one place in the Old
> Testament, as more or less "disfigured," since, after seeing God
> on Mt Sinai, Moses found it necessary to cover HIS face with a
> veil, lest others see its condition. (Some have speculated that
> he suffered leprosy-like "radiation burns" from that encounter!)
>
> More reasonably, according to Biblical scholars (see, e.g.,
> "The Oxford Companion to the Bible"), the "Suffering Servant"
> description MIGHT apply to ANOTHER historic figure -- either
> Jehoiachin or Jehoiakim of the House of David, the last heirs to
> the throne of Israel, who were imprisoned (and possibly tortured)
> in Babylon after the Fall of Jerusalem ca. 58X BC. The king in
> exile --as representative of Israel, punished LITERALLY for the
> "sins" of his people by the King of Babylon, and held hostage as
> an example to them all-- assumed near-legendary status among the
> Jews left behind in Jerusalem, who believed that God would set
> him free and he would return in glory to Jerusalem, a "Messiah."
> (Such hopes, leading to popular "prophecies," are mentioned in
> Jer 28:3-4.) He did in fact return and re-assume the throne of
> Israel (but under the thumb and watchful eye of foreign rulers)
> but, oddly, the Old Testament OMITS noting what happened next ...
> Only Josephus, in his "Antiquities of the Jews" (x:97), tells us
> what the historical record said -- he was killed and his corpse
> thrown over Jerusalem's city walls. His death had in fact been
> predicted by Jeremiah, whose COUNTER-prophecies in opposition to
> "court prophets" of the House of David were not believed until
> too late, and who HIMSELF was arrested, imprisoned, and scorned.
> In that case, the argument goes, the "Suffering Servant"
> could have been the King (Jehoiachin or Jehoiakim) returning "in
> glory," for awhile leading a revival of faith in God's mercy --
> but afterward, embarrassingly, FAILING in his "mission" and
> coming to an ignominious end, which led to him being "deleted"
> from Biblical history. Nevertheless, some of the "prophecies"
> regarding him survived and were edited to be less SPECIFIC and
> more GENERAL in their rebuke and their "Messianic" message ...
> The portion of the Book of Isaiah (Isaiah lived in the 8th
> Century BC) which is referred to by scholars as "Second Isaiah"
> is often attributed to a "disciple" writing in the 6th Century BC
> -- just coincidentally, the time of Jehoiachin and Jehoiakim ...
>
> "Second Isaiah" is distinguished from the rest of Isaiah by
> semantic differences, under the standard literary criteria for
> authorship applied by scholars, as well as certain differences in
> CONTENT which set it apart from the genuine writings of Isaiah,
> the prophet who "anointed" King Hezekiah (his son-in-law, by the
> way!) as future Messiah, just as John the Baptist chose Jesus.
> Under the tutelage of Isaiah, Hezekiah REFORMED the Judahite
> Temple-religion, purging it of Northern Israelite practices, and
> succeeded in "saving" God's Chosen People when under siege by the
> Assyrian Empire. For these accomplishments, many JEWS accept
> Hezekiah as having truly been MESSIAH -- "a," not "the," Messiah.
> In ISAIAH's "prophecies," the "Messiah" is described in
> different terms than those preferred by "Second Isaiah" (perhaps
> a grandson of the prophet) in descriptions of HIS "Messiah,"
> although --both being in the "Messianic" spirit and both being
> written in the same century-- there ARE common denominators TOO.
> The precise distinctions and similarities are too technical to
> merit an incursion into Biblical exegesis, OFF-TOPIC on CTRL.
>
>
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> This is the modern Jewish view
> http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/j4j-2000/index.html
>
> ISAIAH 53
> At JEWS FOR JUDAISM, we frequently encounter questions from Jews who are
> involved in or considering Christianity. Among the questions, one chapter
of
> our Jewish Scriptures keeps coming up: Isaiah 53. Wasn't the Prophet, in
> fact, referring to Jesus in this chapter? And didn't all Jews before the
> Middle Ages recognize this chapter as "messianic"? We hope to assist you
in
> interpreting a chapter which has become a cornerstone of Christian
> evangelism to Jews.
>
> <snip>
>
>
> C. ISAIAH 53
> In the original Hebrew texts, there are no chapter divisions, and Jew and
> Christian alike agree that chapter 53 is actually a continuation of the
> prophecy which begins at 52:13. Accordingly, our analysis must begin at
that
> verse.
>
> 52:13 "Behold, My servant will prosper." Israel in the singular is called
> G-D's servant throughout Isaiah, both explicitly (Isa. 41:8-9; 44:1-2;
45:4;
> 48:20; 49:3) and implicitly (Isa. 42:19-20; 43:10) - the Messiah is not.
> Other references to Israel as G-D's servant include Jer. 30:10 (note that
in
> Jer. 30:17, the servant Israel is regarded by the nations as an outcast,
> forsaken by G-D, as in Isa. 53:4); Jer. 46:27-28; Ps. 136:22; Lk. 1:54.
> ALSO: Given the Christian view that Jesus is G-D, is G-D His own servant?
>
> 52:15 - 53:1 "So shall he (the servant) startle many nations, the kings
will
> stand speechless; For that which had not been told them they shall see and
> that which they had not heard shall they ponder. Who would believe what we
> have heard?" Quite clearly, the nations and their kings will be amazed at
> what happens to the "servant of the L-rd," and they will say "who would
> believe what we have heard?". 52:15 tells us explicitly that it is the
> nations of the world, the gentiles, who are doing the talking in Isaiah
53.
> See, also, Micah 7:12-17, which speaks of the nations' astonishment when
the
> Jewish people again blossom in the Messianic age.
>
> 53:1 "And to whom has the arm of the L-rd been revealed?" In Isaiah, and
> throughout our Scriptures, G-D's "arm" refers to the physical redemption
of
> the Jewish people from the oppression of other nations (see, e.g., Isa.
> 52:8-12; Isa. 63:12; Deut. 4:34; Deut. 7:19; Ps. 44:3).
>
> 53:3 "Despised and rejected of men." While this is clearly applicable to
> Israel (see Isa. 60:15; Ps. 44:13-14), it cannot be reconciled with the
New
> Testament account of Jesus, a man who was supposedly "praised by all" (Lk.
> 4:14-15) and followed by multitudes (Matt. 4:25), who would later acclaim
> him as a prophet upon his triumphal entry into Jerusalem (Matt. 21:9-11).
> Even as he was taken to be crucified, a multitude bemoaned his fate (Lk.
> 23:27). Jesus had to be taken by stealth, as the rulers feared "a riot of
> the people" (Mk. 14:1-2).
>
> 53:3 "A man of pains and acquainted with disease." Israel's adversities
are
> frequently likened to sickness - see, e.g., Isa. 1:5-6; Jer. 10:19; Jer
> 30:12.
>
> 53:4 "Surely our diseases he carried and our pains he bore." In Matt.
8:17,
> this is correctly translated, and said to be literally (not spiritually)
> fulfilled in Jesus' healing of the sick, a reading inconsistent with the
> Christian mistranslation of 53:4 itself.
>
> 53:4 "Yet we ourselves esteemed him stricken, smitten of G- D and
> afflicted." See Jer. 30:17 - of G-D's servant Israel (30:10), it is said
by
> the nations, "It is Zion; no one cares for her."
>
> 53:5 "But he was wounded from (NOTE: not for) our transgressions, he was
> crushed from (AGAIN: not for) our iniquities." Whereas the nations had
> thought the Servant (Israel) was undergoing Divine retribution for its
sins
> (53:4), they now realize that the Servant's sufferings stemmed from their
> actions and sinfulness. This theme is further developed throughout our
> Jewish Scriptures - see, e.g., Jer. 50:7; Jer. 10:25. ALSO: Note that the
> Messiah "shall not fail nor be crushed till he has set the right in the
> earth" (Isa. 42:4).
>
> 53:7 "He was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he did not open his
mouth.
> Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, and like a sheep that is silent
before
> its shearers, so he did not open his mouth." Note that in the prior
chapter
> (Isa. 52), Israel is said to have been oppressed and taken away without
> cause (52:4-5). A similar theme is developed in Psalm 44, wherein King
David
> speaks of Israel's faithfulness even in the face of gentile oppression
> (44:17- 18) and describes Israel as "sheep to be slaughtered" in the midst
> of the unfaithful gentile nations (44:22,11).
>
> Regarding the claim that Jesus "did not open his mouth" when faced with
> oppression and affliction, see Matt. 27:46, Jn. 18:23, 36-37.
>
> 53:8 "From dominion and judgement he was taken away." Note the correct
> translation of the Hebrew. The Christians are forced to mistranslate,
since
> - by Jesus' own testimony - he never had any rights to rulership or
> judgement, at least not on the "first coming." See, e.g., Jn. 3:17; Jn.
> 8:15; Jn. 12:47; Jn. 18:36.
>
> 53:8 "He was cut off out of the land of the living."
>
> 53:9 "His grave was assigned with wicked men." See Ez. 37:11-14, wherein
> Israelis described as "cut off" and G-D promises to open its "graves" and
> bring Israel back into its own land. Other examples of figurative deaths
> include Ex. 10:17; 2 Sam. 9:8; 2 Sam. 16:9.
>
> 53:8 "From my peoples' sins, there was injury to them." Here the Prophet
> makes absolutely clear, to anyone familiar with Biblical Hebrew, that the
> oppressed Servant is a collective Servant, not a single individual. The
> Hebrew word "lamoh", when used in our Scriptures, always means "to them"
> never "to him" and may be found, for example, in Psalm 99:7 - "They kept
his
> testimonies, and the statute that He gave to them."
>
> 53:9 "And with the rich in his deaths." Perhaps King James should have
> changed the original Hebrew, which again makes clear that we are dealing
> with a collective Servant, i.e., Israel, which will "come to life" when
the
> exile ends (Ez. 37:14).
>
> 53:9 "He had done no violence." See Matt. 21:12; Mk. 11:15-16; Lk. 19:45;
> Lk. 19:27; Matt. 10:34 and Lk. 12:51; then judge for yourself whether this
> passage is truly consistent with the New Testament account of Jesus.
>
> 53:10 "He shall see his seed." The Hebrew word for "seed", used in this
> verse, always refers to physical descendants in our Jewish Scriptures.
See,
> e.g., Gen. 12:7; Gen. 15:13; Gen. 46:6; Ex. 28:43. A different word,
> generally translated as "sons", is used to refer to spiritual descendants
> (see Deut. 14:1, e.g.).
>
> 53:10 "He will prolong his days." Not only did Jesus die young, but how
> could the days be prolonged of someone who is alleged to be G-D?
>
> 53:11 "With his knowledge the righteous one, my Servant, will cause many
to
> be just." Note again the correct translation: the Servant will cause many
to
> be just, he will not "justify the many." The Jewish mission is to serve as
a
> "light to the nations" which will ultimately lead the world to a knowledge
> of the one true G-D, this both by example (Deut. 4:5-8; Zech. 8:23) and by
> instructing the nations in G-D's Law (Isa. 2:3-4; Micah 4:2-3).
>
> 53:12 "Therefore, I will divide a portion to him with the great, and he
> shall divide the spoil with the mighty." If Jesus is G-D, does the idea of
> reward have any meaning? Is it not rather the Jewish people - who
> righteously bore the sins of the world and yet remained faithful to G-D
(Ps.
> 44) - who will be rewarded, and this in the manner described more fully in
> Isaiah chapters 52 and 54?
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