-Caveat Lector- <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/">
</A> -Cui Bono?-
Tenorlove,
There was nothing dishonest about it...
I read that you said you are not going to comment about the Talmud, which
is, in my opinion the real sidestep, but it's neither here nor there... if
you care not to comment; and I that's why that was left out of the
original quote. Your entire message was listed below my response for
anyone's reference as to quote.
I took issue with what I quoted you said. That is why that is there...
It's no different than someone saying... """ Tenorlove wrote: """ at the
heading of a response. I just happened to put it in the middle, and put
there what I took up issue with.
You cannot discuss the Pharisees, however, in my opinion, without
including the Talmudic as well as the Mystical... for even the word
'Pharisee' stands for the religious order during a certain period of time.
And for the record, I am not concerned with Roman occupation or
unoccupation... nor am I concerned with who liked them and who didn't. I
am concerned with who and what they really are beneath their actor's
garments... for they are just what Jesus called them, hypocrits, vipers
and progeny of the devil, and so does and is the religion that has emerged
from the bowels of Babylonian Mysticism and the Babylonian Talmud called
"Judaism" today, that was instituted 100's of years ago by apostate Jews.
Truly it is the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel... For how
could Jesus call it that, if he did not find it in that condition? One has
to come to the realization by understanding who and what it is that sits in
the Holy Place, calling itself God.
In all due respect, Tenorlove, I was fair. your full message was attached
as it is to this one.
eagle 1
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tenorlove" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] .... and a point of clarification
> -Caveat Lector- <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/">
> </A> -Cui Bono?-
>
> Eagle,
>
> Please re-read the original message; I left it on the bottom. I
> HONESTLY admitted that "I'm not going to comment on the Talmudic
> aspects of the post because all I know of the Talmud has come from
> secondary sources."
> The ACTION of snipping that part off the quote and then saying about
> the rest: "the comments above seems to have side-stepped the original
> issue [my point] that Jewish Mysticism and Talmudic Judaism has taken
> over [replaced] the original Faith of Abraham" is IMO, dishonest.
> Should I report on a book that I have not read? I prefer, when I can,
> to consult primary sources.
>
> As far as the assumption that Judas was murdered by the Pharisees, I've
> never heard that one before -- interesting, worth looking into. But, if
> Jesus was murdered by the Pharisees, then the Pharisees are really
> Romans, not Jews. The Sanhedrin, the Jewish ruling body, could have
> stoned him of their own accord if they would have had reason too.
> Crucifixion was a ROMAN punishment given for one crime only: TREASON
> against the Roman Empire. Jesus, by claiming to be the Son of God, and
> claiming that he came to fulfill the Law, would indeed have been guilty
> of what Pilate, as the Emperor's representative in Palestine, would
> have called treason.
>
> To reiterate, I called the Pharisees "anti-Roman." The Romans, in
> Jesus' time, were not Christian, they were pagan. There were no
> "Christians" during Jesus' lifetime. The Christian Church did not
> coalesce into a distinct entity until closer to the time of the Jewish
> uprising against Rome in 70 AD.
>
> But I am intrigued by the "Judas was murdered" hypothesis. :-D
>
> Tenorlove
>
> --- Eagle 1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > -Caveat Lector- <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/">
> > </A> -Cui Bono?-
> >
> > Tenorlove,
> > From all the study I've done over the past forty years, I can only
> > find
> > without fail, the facts that the "Kenites" who are the direct
> > descendants
> > or sons of Cain (Qayin), are the ones who stole the seat of Moses
> > and
> > presented themselves as God, [specifically with regard to the Law]
> > and
> > replaced their Babylonian Mysticism with what is now called "Jewish
> > Mysticism" and the Kabbalah. They placed themselves in the judgment
> > seat of
> > Moses, so muchso, that they took upon themselves as a " council " to
> > find a
> > way to kill Jesus and then tried to blame it on their scapegoat,
> > Judas
> > Iscariot, whom we know repented of his misunderstandings and
> > betrayal of
> > Christ, and who was also murdered for what he knew; according to
> > Acts ch 1
> > v18 - "Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity
> > [thirty
> > pieces of silver that betrayed Christ to the Pharisees]; and falling
> > headlong he burst asunder in the midst, and his bowels gushed out."
> > We
> > know from this example alone that Judas did not hang himself, for a
> > hung
> > person does just that, "hangs" there and his bowels don't gush out.
> > This
> > person who is identified in a couple of Scriptures before this is
> > Judas
> > Iscariot who was "numbered among the disciples". To burst assunder
> > and the
> > bowels gush out, would mean one thing and one thing only, that
> > someone or
> > certain people, split his guts open and threw him headlong into the
> > Potter's
> > field of blood. If one hangs and falls, even headlong, his brains
> > might
> > gush out but not his bowels. Judas was murdered, and no doubt by
> > the same
> > who murdered Jesus, the Pharisees, who did not want him to spread
> > the truth
> > about what the Pharisees had done. This example is given to show
> > that the
> > Pharisees are murderous and anti-God, and very anti-christian.
> >
> > Now, with all that said,
> > # 1) I can find nothing about the Sadducees as this culprit who
> > killed
> > Christ or who stole the 'seat of Moses'. The Sadducees were a
> > off-shoot
> > cult in Jerusalem that did not believe in life after death or
> > judgment of
> > God.
> > #2) Here is what was said by Tenorlove:
> > >>>
> > > Back in the time of the
> > > Pharisees, Rome occupied Palestine. The occupational government
> > could
> > > be compared to the Vichy government in France during the Nazi
> > > occupation. The Jews were split into several factions. The
> > Pharisees
> > > were one of them. They were legalistic to a fault, putting the
> > letter
> > > of the law above the spirit. However, they were also strongly
> > > ANTI-Roman; they wanted independence from a tyrannical occuping
> > force.
> > > IMO, that tilts them closer to the "good guy" side than the "bad
> > guy"
> > > side. Now the SADDUCEES were the truly genuine "bad guys" the
> > Quislings
> > > of Roman-occupied Palestine. In return for a luxurious lifestyle,
> > they
> > > collaborated with the Romans, to the point of ratting out freedom
> > > fighters. The New Testament, as we know it, is a product of both
> > first
> > > and 4th century editing and/or censorship designed to "sell"
> > > Christianity to a Romanized audience. Hence, the Pharisees are cast
> > in
> > > the role of villains that should more accurately be reserved for
> > the
> > > Sadducees.
> > <<<
> >
> > This, to me, the comments above seems to have side-stepped the
> > original
> > issue [my point] that Jewish Mysticism and Talmudic Judaism has taken
> > over
> > [replaced] the original Faith of Abraham. Jewish Mysticism and
> > Talmudic
> > Judaism is nothing more than the Babylonian Mysticism rewritten and
> > carried
> > to Jerusalem by apostate Jews whose ancestors previously had no
> > desire to
> > 'return home'. Today, you have the Mystery Babylon, comprised of
> > Babylonian Mysticism and the Babylonian Talmud, by default, and is
> > same
> > song second verse, but is today being called "Judaism"; (whose
> > tenents are
> > taken up by various factions of Jews, specifically the Hasidics,
> > and other
> > religions who have a need to show some kind of 'signs and wonders'
> > and thus
> > practice the arts of mysticism, though perverted, through their
> > religious
> > doctrines). There are several organizations who practice mysticism
> > openly.
> > I don't think I need to mention any denominations.
> >
> > Anyway, in a nutshell... Does anyone believe that the Pharisees of
> > Jesus'
> > time were simply scapegoats for the Sadducees or were they any time
> > following Jesus' ministry and death? And does anyone believe that
> > they are
> > any different today, and why? I am open to researching
> > suggestions... but
> > I need documentation, not just words of discrepancy.
> >
> > I simply don't buy into the description above as the Sadducees being
> > the
> > "bad guys" who made the Pharisees some sort of scapegoat for their
> > wrong
> > doings. It seems that Jesus spent an awful lot of time with the
> > scribes,
> > the scripture lawyers, and the Pharisees of that THAT faction, those
> > who
> > dealt directly with the temple and it's religion, just as the
> > Hasidics do
> > today, and it was of these [Pharisees] who became what we know as
> > the
> > ""elders"" today.
> >
> > ANY COMMENTS?
> >
> > eagle 1
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tenorlove" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 6:45 AM
> > Subject: Re: [CTRL] Tarot: The Royal Path. About those links.... and
> > a point
> > of clarification
> >
> >
> > > -Caveat Lector- <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/">
> > > </A> -Cui Bono?-
> > >
> > > Reference: http://www.lambsheart.com/fourwinds/whore.html
> > >
> > > eagle 1
> > >
> > > For more information about the Kabbalah:
> > > http://www.kheper.auz.com/topics/Kabbalah/Kabbalah.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > Of greater concern than "here we go again" (my first thought when I
> > > read Eagle's post) is that, when I checked out these 2 links, the
> > > second one is dead, and the the first my computer refused to open,
> > > citing a security hazard.
> > >
> > > At any rate, I'm not going to comment on the Talmudic aspects of
> > the
> > > post because all I know of the Talmud has come from secondary
> > sources.
> > > However, I would like to clarify something. Back in the time of the
> > > Pharisees, Rome occupied Palestine. The occupational government
> > could
> > > be compared to the Vichy government in France during the Nazi
> > > occupation. The Jews were split into several factions. The
> > Pharisees
> > > were one of them. They were legalistic to a fault, putting the
> > letter
> > > of the law above the spirit. However, they were also strongly
> > > ANTI-Roman; they wanted independence from a tyrannical occuping
> > force.
> > > IMO, that tilts them closer to the "good guy" side than the "bad
> > guy"
> > > side. Now the SADDUCEES were the truly genuine "bad guys" the
> > Quislings
> > > of Roman-occupied Palestine. In return for a luxurious lifestyle,
> > they
> > > collaborated with the Romans, to the point of ratting out freedom
> > > fighters. The New Testament, as we know it, is a product of both
> > first
> > > and 4th century editing and/or censorship designed to "sell"
> > > Christianity to a Romanized audience. Hence, the Pharisees are cast
> > in
> > > the role of villains that should more accurately be reserved for
> > the
> > > Sadducees.
> > >
> > > Tenorlove
> > > __________________________________________________
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