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Twenty Questions . . . David Guyatt
RA Kris Millegan©2000


I met David Guyatt through the Internet. An essay of mine about Skull and
Bones was/is posted at www.parascope.com and David ran across it and an
ensuing friendship was formed. Through the years David has shared his
frustrations of researching, uncovering, understanding and then articulating
complex stories for years only to have the rug pulled out from various
projects by the "powers-that-be." David has much personal experience, has
published many articles and has followed  leads where others fear to tread. I
have always valued David’s experiences and insights and am happy to present
this email interview with one the world’s top "conspiracy" researchers into
the netherworld of "reality."


Twenty Questions . . .

1. What is your background?

I am married, have three grown up kids and one grandson.  I live on the East
coast of England with a fine view out over the countryside.

Professionally speaking I spent almost 28 years in stockbroking and
international banking in the City of London.  I worked for a number of what I
now know to be "interesting" firms - but at the time didn't really know the
game was on.

One of these firms was Euromobiliare, an Italian Stockbroker owned by
Agnelli.  Earlier, I also helped set-up the London office of Blyth Eastman
Dillon & Co Limited which was the Eurobond arm of this Wall Street broker. I
also had a short spell with Shearson Rhodes Loeb, London.  Then there was the
three or four years I was with the London office of White Weld & Co., a
blue-blood Wall Street broker that was eventually subsumed into Credit Suisse
First Boston (CSFB).  That was in the early 1970's at a time of great
monetary flux for the emerging Eurodollar/Eurobond market.

I was still young and surrounded by people who later grew to some prominence.
 For example, Stani Yassakovitch was a White Welder who later became Chairman
of Western American Bank, later to become European American Bank.  Then there
was David Potter, just out of university and trading CD's. David later went
on to become Chairman (or CEO -I can't remember which) of Samuel Montagu.
Years later I met up again with him - at a Bond Conference in Helsinki of all
places - when he joined Midland Bank where I was the treasurer in the
Forfaiting division.

I was at Midland throughout the eighties and helped fund a large number of
financing packages for weapon deals - from Mortars for the Planagists in
Lebanon to helicopter gunships for Turkey (but possibly bound for Iraq).  I
also worked on a package for F16's for, but can no longer remember if this
was concluded or not or where they were destined.  The division I worked in
was Midland Bank Aval Limited (known as MidAval) which was wholly owned by
Midland Bank Group International Trade Services (known in-house as
"Mib-Gits").  Weapons financing and discounting Russian government "paper"
were the two most important profit sectors we were involved in.

Interestingly, MibGits was a commercial "cover" for Britain's SIS and SS (MI6
and MI5) and more than half a dozen intelligence officers worked there full
time involving themselves in various international weapon deals and other
forms of spookery.

Back in 1983, MibGits hit the headlines when their Moscow Representative,
Dennis Skinner, a career MI6 officer, was tossed out of the fifth floor
window of his Moscow apartment block.  Skinner had identified a KGB "mole"
working in the British embassy in Moscow and the KGB took their revenge.

One of the more senior MibGits officers was MI5 spook master Sir John Cuckney
and his thug underling Stephan Kock.  Kock has been identified by insiders
(including, for example, Gerald James - former Chairman of the large
armaments firm Astra) to have one time headed Group 13 - a "deniable"
assassination group composed largely of former SAS types who operate – at
arms length - on behalf of Britain's Foreign Office.

Some years after I left the bank, I met up with Gerald in the coffee lounge
of the Institute of Directors on Pall Mall.  At the time I was conducting
research for an article I was writing on Group 13.  More than once, others
sitting close gave us skewed glances as we discussed assassinations, arms
deals and secret services -- not the sort of topic that most IOD members got
to listen to very often.  Gerald's book "In The Public Interest" is an
extremely insightful reflection of Margaret Thatcher's Britain and in it he
typifies Midland Bank (that is to say MibGits and MidAval - since we dealt
with Astra, too) as  "a veritable junction box of the UK establishment's arms
dealing during the Iran-Iraq war."

Midland (or rather HSBC) remains the principal British bank for weapon
financing and is the beneficiary of something like 60% of all Government
backed export credits (ECGD) according to a recent TV programme.

Meanwhile, it turns out that during my years at White Weld & Co London, the
firm was one of the principal players in the 1973 Oil price hikes and David
Mulford was the WW man who was in charge of investing the huge Saudi Monetary
Agency (SAMA) dollar surpluses (soon to be tagged in the media as
"Petrodollars") in London, thereby kickstarting the Eurodollar market into
the largest bond market outside the US.

Interestingly, European American Bank (EAB) would also soon become known to
the media when it took over the assets of the gutted Franklin National Bank,
then owned by Mafia & Vatican financier, Michele Sindona.

The short time I spent at Shearson Loeb Rhodes was also interesting.
Shearson's offices were situated (unusually for an investment bank as they
were miles away from the City) only a stone's throw from the US Embassy. This
was at a time when Sandy Weill was the head honcho - years before he became
Chairman of Travellers Corp.  There was a guy in the office who was a high
flying executive concerned with peddling very large syndicated loans to
already over-indebted third world countries.  I can remember him shuttling
off to close a jumbo loan of $500 million to Brasil at a time when it was
clear to everyone that Brasil was going belly-up.  Interestingly, he was a
former Green Beret in Vitenam.

2. What is The City?

The City is the financial district of London that houses the principal
indutsries of banking and finance, insurance, shipping.  However, it is
unlike Manhattan or Frankfurt or Zurich in that it really is a chartered city
within a city in the sense that its borders are defined, it is governed by
its own council and Mayor (at present the only Mayor of London is the Mayor
of the "City" - with powers confined only to the City not the rest of London)
and has its own police force distinct from the Metropolitan police who are
responsible for the remainder of London.  An example of the City's
independence and that of its police force, occurred some years back when the
Commercial Union Building (St. Mary Axe) and Nat-West Tower were bombed.
Shortly after those events, the City police independently established a
"cordon sanitaire" around the City of London with roadblocks on every access
point.  This just happened one morning and, of course, was played up by the
media.  The then Prime Minister, John Major, was angered because he hadn't
even been consulted.  This might not be such a big thing in the US but
remember this is a small island that has always been run centrally and so it
caused headlines.

It is also abundantly clear that the hand that rocks England's political
cradle is the City.  This has always been true of the Conservative party who
have been the favourite sons of the financial and foreign policy
establishment.  Historically, the labour party has been seen as the enemy but
that has now all changed, too (if it were ever true?).  The first decision
Chancellor of the Excheque, Gordon Brown, announced on being elected to
government was to make the Bank of England independent.  In my view this was
very clearly part of a pre-arranged deal with the City that provided the
Labour party with funding and media approval - both of which led Labour being
voted into power.

2a. What is a Freeman of the City of London?

A Freeman is someone who has been given the "keys" to the City.  It is a
ceremonial honour. I think (I know one or two and they ain't special...but
see below), but tends to be given to those who have worked in the Ward Clubs
etc.,  --  which in themselves are often used as recruiting grounds for
Masonry -- I was a member of a Ward Club and more than once offered
membership to Masonic Lodges and I still know many Masons up to and including
33rd degrees (most are comparative dunces, I think, but I have to be careful
as my father was also a Mason and "in the Chair" when he died (not literally)
and I have the greatest respect for him as a genuine, honest, caring and
generous person).

But I diverge.  The Ward Clubs form the backbone of the City political
process and are also stepping stones to membership in the Livery Clubs which
is where businessmen, power-brokers and politicians come together socially.
For example, Goldsmiths, one of the top Livery Clubs has many bankers and
included such figures as G C H Mathey (Johnson Mathey Bankers) and J H Hambro
(of Hambros Bank).  Margaret Thatcher was also (and probably still is) a
member of the "Poulters"  and the Queen Mother is a member of the "Merchant
Taylors," while Princess Juliana of the netherlands is with the "Carpenters,"
and the Duke of Edinburgh is the Master of the "Air Pilots & Navigators (I
like the Navigators bit of the title particularly), where he was joined by
Sir A Tuke of RTZ and Barclays Bank.

But this short list is way out of date now.  As one researcher put it, the
Livery Clubs appear to be an "officer class" to the more numerous membership
of masonry.  Seems a sensible enough conjecture, I think.

Lastly, there is the "Honourable Company of Freemen of the City of London of
North America" which meet in Toronto and New York and which was founded in
1979, the year Thatcher came to power.  It is reckoned to be an UKUSA
"Special Relationship" sort of group

3. What led you into the heretical field of conspiracy research?

I think my background in the City prepared me to dig deeper into some of the
things I already knew about and to learn a great deal more about those things
I didn't know about but wanted to learn of.  Also, there were a number of
books I read in the two years following my decision to leave the City that
really opened my eyes.  One of those was the book written jointly by Robin
Ramsay and Steve Dorrell about all the dirty tricks that happened to former
Labor Prime Minister Harold Wilson.  That really was a wake up call.  Another
book that set light to my interest in these topics was Aarons & Loftus
"Ratlines" and another was about P2, the Vatican bank (IOR) and the Banco
Ambrosiano scandal.

4. How has conspiracy research effect your life?

It keeps me poor, which is what I imagine is intended in a social engineering
sense (rather than me personally).  Be "good" and get a reward, be "bad" and
be punished.  Researching reality is one thing (and for some it is little
more than a hobby), but trying to place segments of this reality in the
public domain earns few brownie points - and even less money.  In a world
where money holds almost total sway it is only to be expected that it is also
the means of reward and punishment.

5. What do you account for the non-discussion in the media of conspiratorial

Power and greed has to hide its true colours since deep down it fears the
people it is fleecing will one day wake up.  The best description I have read
about this aspect of things are the observations made by Walter Lippmann who
believed that society should be divided between a great vulgar, ignorant mass
we call the "public," and the "elite" who would determine what was in the
"national interest."  This elite would form the national or state bureaucracy
- the political/government class - who would dedicate themselves to the
interests of private power and private wealth, making sure that their special
"relationship" should never be revealed to the general public who, Lippmann
said, "wouldn't understand." Damn right they wouldn't understand.  Being
daily ripped-off and perpetually lied to has a tendency to raise people's ire
- and rightly so.

Nowadays, the media have become the new political class who debate issues on
TV and in our daily newspapers for us all to see.  They are responsible for
managing the news agenda of what can and what cannot be discussed or
revealed.  Very many honest and good journalists are aware of this as they
have experienced the pressures that confine "sensitive" issues and have seen
them thrust on the editor's spike.

6. What has been your experience in presenting conspiratorial stories to
mainstream and other media outlets? Do you get honest reasonings?

No honest reasoning that I have ever experienced and as for presenting such
stories to the mainstream press  - it is a virtual waste of time.  In the
past I have worked on TV documentary projects for months, and in some
instances for years, but all to no avail.  It was not that the producers and
directors I was in contact with lacked interest or ability, but getting
"commissioned" by a broadcaster on topics which are sensitive is an uphill
struggle and rarely succeeds - at least in my limited experience of these

7. What is the general British population acceptance of conspiratorial ideas?

It measures somewhere between zero and nil.  The is mostly due to the
influence of the press and media, I think.  There is a subtle awareness by
many people that all is not right, but fear for the loss of their job or
social standing - and just plain old fear - deters them from seeking answers.
That's all it takes, really to keep the lid on things.

8. Are you considered a kook or . . . ?

I have no idea how I am considered except by my family and their view is the
only one that counts in my book.

9. As you know the field is rife with all sorts of mis- and dis-information.
How do you deal with information?

With great difficulty.  So much of what is available cannot be proved and so
many people who come forward with "inside" stories do so because they have
their own personal agenda or else just wish to add to the white noise for
reasons only known to them.  The only antidote to this is to absolutely
attend to the detail during research.

There is also an increasing dependence to rely on documentary evidence to
support a story under investigation.  However, Sir William Stephenson
(Intrepid) of WWII S.O.E. once observed (and I am paraphrasing) that
documents (especially government documents) are the most easily contrived and
the most to be distrusted.  My experience in banking exactly parallels
Stephenson's observation.  I have seen vital papers manufactured to satisfy
audit requirments or backdated to provide later support for action taken.  I
am also aware that other vital papers have disappeared in the blink of an
eye.  Auditors and inspectors certainly are aware that this happens but so
long as they are not made directly aware of it they choose to remain
unseeing.  The same will be true with regard to government records.

An equally important consideration for a researcher, I think, is deciding
whether to investigate a particular new allegation that could be
disinformation but which might also be pure gold.  It often comes down to
instinct or intuition -- a sense that says this might be true... check it
out.  I have spent months investigating certain stories only to trash them as
fakes or as being too unreliable to continue.  Other stories that appear
genuine but which cannot be corroborated have to be filed away until such
time as other information emerges in support of them.

10. Have you ever visited the US? If so what are your impressions? And if you
haven't? What are your impressions?

No one likes a foreigner to speak ill of their country and the immediate
response is "what the hell does he know," or something similar.  I,
therefore, tread with care.

However, I have visited several times both on business and on vacation and
have formed the opinion that America is a paradox.  On the one hand it has a
profoundly impressive constitution (at least for Brits who have no written
constitution at all), and numerous other important acts, like the FOIA.  At
the same time it is a society where crime is prevalent and society is divided
along the fault lines of wealth.  I have to say that I do not much like the
prevailing spirit of success that acclaims only the winner but treats the
also "also rans" as absolute nobodies.  This, for me, is social engineering
on a grand scale and is in urgent need of a detox.

11.  I know you have been looking at the question of gold and its place in
the world. What led you to that field of inquiry?

I was contacted by someone who read an article I wrote about the Bank of
England cover-up of the crash of Barings bank.  This person had been involved
in several gold transaction with Imelda Marcos as well as individuals in
Indonesia.  He had been arrested in England and charged with passing
fraudulent papers.  After a number of meetings and access to his files I
believed what he was saying - that he was being set up.  I began speaking to
numerous contacts he had established in what can only be called the "black
market" which is where "unofficial" gold is routinely transacted. That was
four years ago and one thing led to another.

12.  Does gold rule the world?

I personally believe that greed rules the world.  Gold just has the uncanny
ability to spark off great gobs of greed.

If, however, you mean does Gold rule the world financially, then I have to
answer that I don't know.  Yet.  But it is very, very significant player.
Meanwhile, the US dollar backed only by the good name of the United States is
the world's reserve currency.  The dollar is so pumped up on debt that it is
beginning to fracture in a thousand places and, I think, a furious battle is
taking place to shore it up behind the scenes. The US stock market survives
as a bloated bubble supported by unseen hands engaged in unseen manipulations
 to keep it afloat.  Insiders who know these support manipulations are taking
place can predict what movements will occur and armed with this intelligence
can engage in their own "manipulations" for their own financial benefit.

13.  How large is the black-market in gold? And is there any "official"
recognition of it?

A couple of years ago I asked the Mining Correspondent of the Financial Times
about the black market in gold.  He answered with complete assurance that
there was no such thing, that it was a myth.  Since I had only just put down
the phone with somebody else who makes their daily living dealing black gold
and had been hot on the trail of numerous large transactions, I couldn't help
but snort in derision.  In my office I had numerous copies of signed
contracts, bank account details, names of bullion officers at major
international banks who were involved in black bullion transactions -- in
short the whole "nine yards."

What exists in reality is a two-tier system for trading gold that is governed
by a pricing mechanism designed to rig the gold price.  Officially, however,
the black market in gold doesn't exist - just as the CIA doesn't deal dope.

14.  Will all these oblique games of gold have any effect in the "real world?"

They are already having a real effect, it's just mostly eclipsed from public

15. There seems to be quite the buzz on now about short sellers and the fed
or ESF funds have been used to influence the market. What do you make of
these "rumours?"

Hardly rumours anymore.  Fed Chairman, Alan Greenspan, has recently
acknowledged that foreign central banks are engaged in manipulating the
market to keep the gold price depressed.  He says the Fed are not involved
since they don't have any gold.  The US Treasury does have gold, though -
over 8,000 tonnes - but Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers is not answering
questions.  Estimates vary but I believe somewhere in the region of 14,000
tonnes of gold has been leased by central banks and gold banks.  The leasor
sells the physical metal and invests the cash flow - approximately $150
billion.  I think the rest is back to the second part of the answer I gave in
question 12, but the picture hasn't clarified just yet and hence this is
speculation on my part.

16.  Does black-market gold surface or are there just some "underground

There are two entirely distinct markets, one official and one that is
politely called unofficial.  Black market gold virtually never surfaces as
transaction are always consumated on a private basis – usually between two
bank bullion officers acting for their bank clients.  In this sense it is an
"underground" market.

Also, gold banks are, according to what I have learned, often are big players
themselves.  I also know of examples where black gold -  in this case gold
plundered during WWII  - has been "leased" for 10 or 20 years to central
banks and used to stabilise their currency or similar... some Marcos gold for

17. Are Sterling Seagrave's amazing revelations in "Yamamoto’s Dynasty" being
discussed in the British Press?

No.  When Sterling was in London last October to launch his new book, the
whole British media was entirely consumed by the Paddington train crash story
and many of the book launch media engagements didn't work out.

Besides the review I wrote for him I know of only one other.  He has had
better luck in France, but overall I don't think things are going as well as
hoped.  This might change for the American launch but you never know.
Interestingly, I told Sterling some months before his launch that I doubted
the media - and especially the US media - would give the book its deserved
prominence. It was my view that there was (and is) too much going on in the
world of gold to allow a frank discussion to take place.

18.  Who do you see as the "power" factions today? Are these economic
alliances also?

I am no expert on this subject, and can only express a personal opinion which
is that money invariably creates alliances and that these are often later
followed by treachery.

Organised crime is very clearly a far more powerful factor than most people
give credit for.  This was recently summed up in a post to the cia-drugs list
by Brian Downing Quigg who quoted a paragraph from former DCI, Bill Colby's
investment newsletter written shortly before he was suicided: "Strategic
Investment Newsletter - Sept. 1995: "The Latin American drug cartels have
stretched their tentacles much deeper into our lives than most people
believe. It's possible they are calling the shots at all levels of

There is also a extremely powerful fraternity of insiders at work in all the
financial markets, I believe.  These people are influential enough to rig
markets, bring down national economies or spark off a stock market bubble.
And, if necessary, they will kill to keep the wheel spinning to avoid others
discovering that the game is rigged.

The most scorn I have, however, is for the media who repeatedly forego honest
investigation and engage in the most disgraceful partisan relationships with
government and big business.  This is wholly to the detriment of the citizen
who has a right to expect the media discharge their function to inform
honestly and fully.  Lacking access to solid and reliable information
obviously inhibits the ability of all of us to form clear judgements.  The
result is confusion and the splintering of opinion - in other words a de
facto mechanism of control.

19. What do you see for the future?

I really don't know but if the Swiss psychologist, Carl Jung, is correct,
then things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.  His essays
on the personal and collective shadows are the most insightful I have ever
read.  I just don't see many people volunteering to stare at their shaving
mirror each morning to see their very own demon blinking back at them. Until
this happens to a sufficient number of people, Jung believed, then the
collective shadow will just keep puffing itself up bigger and bigger as it
draws more and more sustenance from each one of us, to the detriment of our
clarity, values and the will to do anything about it.

At the same time I see tremendous benefits accruing from the internet.  The
free circulation of information and the ability to communicate with others so
rapidly is a great advantage.  I think it is true to say that most people
know they are being lied to by politicians and the media but the problem is
that they don't really want to deal with that because of fear or sloth...or
both.  If they see others taking a stand it may make taking their own next
step to reality a little easier.

20.  What have been the most interesting, convincing and astounding
realizations that you have encountered on your journey along the conspiracy

The gold story when it is finally made public is, in my view, of considerable
significance because it is a shining example of how a great secret can be
kept hidden from the public for so many years and because it is central to
the history of the last fifty years and more.

I also think the continuing revelations regarding the CIA's decades long
involvement in narcotics peddling and their on-going close relationship with
organised crime syndicates has been vital.  That this has been conducted by a
virtual handful of mostly private citizens -turned investigators/writers -
who are absent of any real funding but are driven by a commitment to ensure
that the truth is told, is a remarkable achievement.  For me this shows that
a few people of integrity can take on the might of government and big
business and against all expectation, beat them.

Also a  big realisation for me was that the cold war was an artificial
construct that lasted fifty years and which resulted, not in freedom,
democracy or other social growth, but in a pervasive fog of fascism that
shackles freedom, despises democracy and represses social development at
every opportunity.

Thank-you, David.

Aloha, He'Ping,
Om, Shalom, Salaam.
Em Hotep, Peace Be,
All My Relations.
Omnia Bona Bonis,
Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
Roads End

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