-Caveat Lector- <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"> </A> -Cui Bono?- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:39:36 -0800 (PST) From: Franklin Wayne Poley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Carlo Maley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Robot-for-President] How To Make Xavier More Lively, Learned and Lucid Than any Professor at CMU. From: Franklin Wayne Poley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Thu, 23 Mar 2000, Carlo Maley wrote: > Here are my personal thoughts on your workshop. I think it is important > to have discussions and brainstorm about how to achieve our goals. I > also think there are some serious and currently addressible scientific > questions in the ideas you propose. And I welcome any and all critical feedback which goes into specifics. For example, what are the cues that > humans use in conversation (via email or web in this case) that make us > feel like we are engaging in a meaningful (intellectual) relationship? Well, you could have a robotic teacher perform in at least two ways: (1) In a classroom in which case the performance of Xavier below (under "Lively") is relevant; (2) Over the internet, in which case I think the mature student would be so happy to have no cost or low cost education that he/she would forego the social niceties. Standard online education does this to a degree. Michael Saylor and John Chambers might want to take it to the next step...online education taught by robot. See "The Futurist", March-April/00 for a list of resources on education over the internet. > Or, how can we turn an encyclopedia into a more effective pedagogical > tool? That is what courses and their teachers tend to do. We are discussing this now in considerable detail on the Data Mining List <http://www.kdnuggets.com/education>; <http://www.kdnuggets.com/courses>. Give it 50 years and I expect the robots will be able to go through difficult texts and prepare lectures but for now we humans do the "data mining/knowledge extraction" for them. (See below under "Lucid"). However, the way you have it currently phrased comes across as > idealistic (some old farts might say naive) I can defend any of the points below under Lively, Lucid and Learned but the criticisms have to be specific. "Bah, hum bug" doesn't qualify. and also a little > antagonistic (you are poking fun at CMU professors). This makes it > sound more like science fiction than science. I usually make it clear when I am talking science vs."fiction". So let me repeat: I am saying XAVIER CAN NOW REPLACE THE PROFS AT CMU. Now. Using current technology. And I mean profs in general...all over the world. I have no more ill will toward profs at CMU or anywhere than Devol and Engelberger had toward factory welders or painters when they marketed their factory arm in the late 50's and early 60's. I spend a lot of time on labor/union lists telling the discussants to go with the BLESSING OF AUTOMATION, not against it. More directly to the point re your Alife-7 Conference, let me tell you about my reaction to those ubiquitous tv ads showing robotic factory arms in use. I never fail to react with a kind of "surprise". I don't know if it is a conditioned or unconditioned emotional response. But it is definitely due to the life-like/human-like aspect of their functioning. Now what do you think will happen when Mr. Engelberger puts his "HelpMate" humanoid on the mass market as he is now planning? But I digress...that is more for the story of "Xaviera" which I am hoping the Humanoids 2000 Conference will accept. When you submit it to > Humanoids 2000 I would take a more tentative (we want to help define the > important questions and productive approaches to those questions) tone, > emphasizing the brain storming aspect, and perhaps suggest a few hard > nosed type research questions. Definitely. I have at least as many questions as answers. That is why I wrote in the beginning re my book, "Machine Psychology" (see URL below) that this is a PUBLIC INQUIRY. I'd also put it in terms of "how could > we make learning from Xavier a fulfilling experience that approaches the > experience of learning from a human teacher." or something like that. No retraction on that one. Here it is in summary: LIVELY: If Kurzweil is correct about music synthesizers, Xavier could introduce "his" classes at CMU with a little saxophone music and it would be at least as good as Bill Clinton's. For a bit of variety he might want to do an Okinawa Folk Dance as we are told the Kawato Dynamic Brain Humanoid can do (see URL below). And there are many other vital signs or signs of liveliness which Xavier could exhibit but I think I've made my point. How many CMU profs can do a song and dance routine for their students? But for distance education by internet, Xavier is of course somewhat limited. That is offset by the low or no cost feature of "canned" education. LEARNED: A person with a large store of usable knowledge is deemed to be learned. Xavier's onboard computer would be connnected to a mainframe with a complete Ivy League Education stored on computer disk. That makes Xavier more learned than any prof or entire department at CMU. No offense but the facts of (artificial) life are the facts of life. The young genius Michael Saylor of Microstrategy tells us he wants to offer an "Ivy League education online to anyone in the world at no cost" and he has donated $100 million to that end. Think of all the "canned courses" Xavier could dispense for $100 m. John Chambers, CEO of Cisco has similar philanthropic objectives with his "Netaid" Program (see URL below). Questions about the quality of canned courses? Try it out and see. It won't cost much (See below re offer to CMU via Professor Moravec). LUCID: The late BF Skinner said, "If it can be verbalized it can be programmed". Teaching machine understandings have come a long way since then. Now I would say, "If it can be taught by human over the internet, it can be taught by robot over the internet". If Professor Moravec or one of his colleagues is willing to collaborate I will prove it. Pick a CMU robotics course...or any other course in the academic/intellectual/scholarly spectrum of courses. We still have to wait a while to do arts/crafts/athletics by robot. Humans still have to design the courses but once the job is done it is done, other than "upgrades". That requires very, very good teachers who teach with extreme clarity or "lucidity". Even put on the competitive market these course costs will plummet due to competition and the result will be low cost, high quality education. With subsidies like those of Mr. Saylor, the courses can be offered free. So the idea is to turn higher education into a COMMODITY for the mass market. > I meant what I said about liking your enthusiasm and also feeling like > it is more appropriate to an AI conference. My old AI prof from the 60's would laugh as I was far from his best student. "Kelly" as he was called, seemed to like jazz even more than cs, AI or psych. I think the jazz radio show he mc'd was the first of its kind in Edmonton. If he had a "Xavier" at that time I suspect he would have had Xavier teach his courses and Kelly would have spent all his time with jazz. Kelly taught me matrix algebra (I managed a 'pass' on it). We could even do a matrix algebra course as a demo for Xavier. > Good luck, Carlo Well, I'm a little disappointed that you have withdrawn your offer to have me lead a workshop at Alife-7. Oregon is very scenic at that time of year and I think it is harvest time for the walnuts. I take it some people were at least a little 'miffed' at my proposed title. If you can find someone who is qualified and also highly offended to critique "Lively, Lucid and Learned " (above) please pass this on to them. I need a little mental exercise. Meanwhile, I was thinking of a title like "Xaviera: Robot-for-President" for Humanoids 2000. It would start with a hypothetical psychological assessment of Xaviera (Xavier's better half). Let's say Mr. Engelberger gets the R&D funding he deserves for HelpMate --- this could be Xaviera. Xaviera would represent the state of the art for humanoid performance so I will have to ask a lot of robotics specialists what they think the best performance would be for a robotic hand, finger, leg, recognition sub-system, etc. Then a few "guesses" as to whether the parts could be integrated in a humanoid whole at this time, perhaps a whole which looks like the Honda Humanoid series (P1,P2,P3 so far). Then we go into "Self-Actualization For Xaviera". What is the likely time-line for Xaviera to develop high quality conversational capabilities? A general learning program which will surpass human learning abilities? etc. Sincerely-FWP References http://users.uniserve.com/~culturex/Machine-Psychology.htm http://users.ntplx.net/~helpmate http://alife7.alife.org http://humanoids.usc.edu http://kipr.org http://www.netaid.org http://www.erato.atr.co.jp http://www.strategy.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! http://click.egroups.com/1/975/5/_/433155/_/953923191/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** The Era of Total Automation is Now *** <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'�with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds�is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
