Subject: Dr J Mack & Bud Hopkins dialogue 1/2 Are all of these people who are experiencing sleep paralysis having completely identical hallucinations? Do all of them suffer from identical hallucinations... or dream about identical figures which do the same thing to them every time? To accept these beliefs is much more improbable than the simple hypothesis that these people have experienced an alien abduction." -- Johannes Fiebag, Ph.D. http://www.alienjigsaw.com/Part_II/victor.html The Abduction Experience: A Dialogue In Boston by Victor Viggiani, B.A., M. Ed. � Copyright March 1997 This is a review of the discussion on Alien Abductions between Dr. John Mack and Mr. Budd Hopkins in Boston, Massachusetts, March 7, 1997. It was always told to me that just because the sun rose today and for a billion times in the past doesn't necessarily mean it will rise tomorrow. The sun does however, rise each morning and there is a very high probability that it will again rise tomorrow morning. This is our constant reality. I was in Boston Massachusetts to listen to a dialogue between Budd Hopkins and Dr. John Mack on the abduction experience not fully realizing how this experience was to alter my view of reality. Anticipation It is a cold and very windy March evening. The Boston night sky is as clear as the sound made by the crack of a bat hitting a baseball. The stars seem to be spectators as crowds of people make their approach along Berkeley street in downtown Boston to the John Hancock Hall were the dialogue is to take place. A group of us meet at the Legal Seafood Restaurant not far from the convention center for calimari, raw oysters and Boston Beers. As we leave the restaurant to join the crowd walking toward the convention center, a strange thought comes to mind. I find it somewhat ironic that just mere weeks after reading about the Toronto Blue Jays abducting the legendary Roger Clemens from the Boston Red Sox line-up, I found myself in that same city attending a conference on the reality of Alien Abductions. Being from Toronto I felt somewhat like a thief returning to the scene of the crime. I had the indelicate urge to stop at the next busy intersection and shout "Hey Boston! We got Clemens now!" However, prudence being the better part brashness, I remained reserved and continued my trek toward the conference hall with the throng this brisk evening. No sense disturbing Boston's baseball reality any further. The evening is filled with anticipation. The sky is still clear as we enter the hall. The stars are looking downward as if they too, wish to enter the conference center, but realize they have their place far beyond in their own reality. The Boston Dialogue on the Alien Abduction Experience between Dr. Mack and Budd Hopkins is set to begin at 7:30. It is sponsored by P.E.E.R., Program for Extraordinary Experience Research founded by Dr. John Mack in 1993; in conjunction with The Intruders Foundation (IF) founded by Budd Hopkins in New York in 1989. The John Hancock Center is a massive building of stores, hotel rooms and quaint restaurants. The press, local visitors and those from parts unknown mill about surveying literature, pamphlets and familiar faces in the carpeted foyer. The stairway to the auditorium releases upwards into the expansive hall. The auditorium seats 1000. We enter with the crowd joining an audience of over 600. The auditorium reveals rows of padded seats leading to a large stage with a soft wooden floor, heavy blue curtains and backdrop. A blue haze of video cameras flicker on elaborate tripods; floor microphones and a light oak podium to stage left allude to sumptuous preparations which hope to capture the moments ahead. Center stage is interestingly set. Upon a large patterned carpet, three comfortable red cushioned antique armchairs with pillows are positioned; two of which are separated from a moderator's chair by a small table and brass lamp with a soft white shade. The lighting is subdued. In front of the chairs on a casual, but tasteful coffee table rest a carafe of water and three glasses. The stage appears set. A representative from P.E.E.R. assumes the podium microphone. She introduces the proceedings. The videos begin to roll. After words of welcome on behalf of P.E.E.R. and the Intruders Foundation she introduces the evening's moderator Christopher Lydon, a local broadcaster on WBUR Boston's National News station. Mr. Lydon is a print, radio and television journalist having contributed to the New York Times, Boston Globe and Columbia Journalism Review. In turn, the P.E.E.R. representative introduces Budd Hopkins and Dr. John Mack. The basic premise of the evening's dialogue is to present two differing views of the Alien Abduction Experience through the perceptions of two individuals engaged in work with people reporting anomalous experiences with alien beings. Amidst initial problems with poor sound, microphone placement and frequent ear piercing feedback, the evening begins. Some in the audience are less tolerant than others and shout their displeasure at the poor sound. Most of the audience appears to be patient in allowing the sound technician to adjust the microphones to the proper level. This presents more of a challenge than he is capable of handling. In spite it all, things press on. Technical glitches seem to pale in the face of this immensely engrossing topic. The evening's moderator addresses the audience. He freely admits to being a relative novice on the evening's topic, but feels his role is one to facilitate and guide the dialogue. Mr. Lydon sets the stage by calling for an open dialogue and discourse on the issue. He freely admits that the "reality question," "is this real or not?" is a question that will not be settled, but rather explored. He contends that this is not about "belief," but about listening and asking questions. Mr. Lydon asks how this reality is different from the religious or philosophical realities which have confronted humanity over the ages. How "real" is this? He asserts that this subject matter is extra-ordinarily "unconventional" and as such, there should therefore be extra-ordinary efforts to explore it as well as extra-ordinary evidence as to its reality. Mr. Lydon asks how the material of this evening differs in fabric from ways rendered to us in the bible about God speaking to humanity. The major issues upon which he will challenge the two speakers this evening will be: Is this phenomenon a Transformational or Traumatic event for experiencers? Is this experience a Physical reality or Spiritual reality? It is clear from his comments that this evening's dialogue is not structured as a debate, but rather, as an exchange of views and an exploration of a very perplexing phenomenon by two of its finest pioneers. Budd Hopkins Both men are introduced. They take their seats ceremoniously beside one another in the antique armchairs. The moderator injects pleasantries and then invites Budd Hopkins to be the first to assume the podium for introductory remarks. Hopkins rises to the occasion amidst the generous applause of an eager audience. In a statement limited to about 15 minutes Budd Hopkins begins to outline the parameters of his perception and experience with the abduction phenomenon. Hopkins is rather informal, speaking quickly yet relaxed and comfortably. His style is anecdotally spontaneous, yet convincingly direct and instructive. For Budd Hopkins the abduction experience is the most important event in the history of humanity. The often portrayed as "good" or "bad" aliens are to Budd Hopkins neither good nor bad, but representative of a realm beyond the altruistic polemics of "good" or "bad." Hopkins describes three aspects which he believes characterize the alien presence in abductions. His experience with abductees (experiencers) has illustrated to him that these three aspects of the alien presence reveal the nature and purpose of the alien intervention into our reality. First, he describes the aliens as deceptive in their operation among humans. Screen memories, that is, fabricated illusions, often portray the aliens or their agents as one thing or another. Hopkins feels these screen memories hide the true intentions, physical appearance and genuine nature of these beings. Creatures such as owls, deer or other manifestations often mask the alien identity to experiencers. Figures can change in mid stream. It may come through the eyes of the beings in episodes of staring, long intense moments of looking into the eyes of experiencers; or through some type of telepathic mind transfer. At one time, or level of experience, the beings appear to be one thing, but can change to another during the abduction. Even within the same experience, another image or screen of perception is presented to the abductee. Hopkins feels the aliens have the ability to input images into the human brain which are deceptive and are thus, further cause to postulate that the abduction experience is, on the surface, an irrational and totally illogical experience. Hopkins believes that the aliens, whoever they are, cannot be trusted based on what they are showing us at the present time. They may be portraying themselves as one thing, but in reality, their agenda is hidden or screened from the perceptive capacity of humanity. Secondly, Hopkins has come to believe that psychological trauma is a resultant outcome of the abduction experience. In his work with psychologists it has been found that abductees generally have low self esteem, dissociative behavior and low levels of trust in others. These, he is quick to point out, are similar to the characteristics of rape victims. Thirdly, Hopkins suggests that our plane of reality yields evidence that the intrusive nature of the experience seems to present itself on a physical as well as paranormal level. They seem to enter our reality with craft of some sort which leave behind physical evidence of their presence. They also appear to leave marks on the bodies of those whom they take. On a paranormal level, they seem to engage in telepathic communication, move through solid walls and create feelings or perceptions in humans which are beyond the confines of "normal" perception and self awareness. Hopkins believes that in some manner, the aliens, whoever or whatever they are, represent a different paradigm of reality. They appear to exist separate from our level of consciousness. John Mack, M.D. Following these remarks the moderator invites Dr. Mack to the podium to provide his perspective on alien abduction. Dr. Mack's figure is subtle yet imposing. He unfurls notes onto the podium from which to speak. He begins slowly and deliberately referring to his notes. His tone and delivery attest to his academic background. In a perplexing manner he launches into a deeply synthesized analysis of his work with people who have directly encountered the abduction phenomenon. Initially, Dr. Mack makes it clear that there really does not appear to be any deeply rooted psychological reason why people are saying what they are about their experiences with alien beings. In a humorous manner, he indicates that what is being reported about what this phenomenon "is" or "is not," is not the investigator's fault. "Don't shoot the messenger," seems to be implied by his comments. Dr. Mack continuously stresses the idea that we must begin to ask questions about the phenomenon, not simply to find "yes" and "no" answers, but to gain a deeper understanding and develop a deeper level of curiosity about alien abductions <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance�not soap-boxing�please! 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