Home Page Who is Behind ------------------------------------------------------ The Big Conspirancy of Finance The Invisible Government of the World Protocols of Wise Men of Zion ------------------------------------------------------ The Secret Government An Interview with John Lear http://www.earth-today.com/Lear.htm 25 November 1989 Welcome back. It has been a long absence. L: It sure has. Your absence has the public wondering what happened. L: Well, I was the host for the MUFON Conference in Las Vegas. There were about twelve speakers and we accomplished a lot. There was a lot of information given out. To my absolute surprise and shock I was called into the airline that I worked for, about five days after the conference. I met with senior airline officials and they asked me "You don’t really believe all this stuff, do you?" "Well, yes sir I do", I said. "Why?" they asked. I gave them about a ten-minute rundown on my research in the past three years and they said, "We just can’t have anybody who believes this stuff flying for our company. What if our passengers found out?". I was summarily terminated. It was a great shock to me. I had many, many years of seniority as a captain with this company. I had to get out and hustle for another job. With my qualifications, I didn’t have much trouble finding another one... it was a while before I got my life sorted out. During that time I haven’t had time to get involved, although I have been keeping abreast of the situation. I take it you were refusing any and all interviews during this period.. L: Yes, I was so busy getting into the new job.. Did you feel like you’ve been burned by your belief, in so far as you went public and lost your job? L: No. I just felt sorry for these people who have not keep abreast of the events and who really and sincerely believe that nothing is going on. I really felt sorry for them because they were so ignorant. One thing is absolutely clear. Something is going on. I would guess that you would say, "They are Here"... L: Yes. Beyond a shadow of a doubt. Since I last talked to you I have seen one. I was taken out to a desert test center by a theoretical physicist who worked directly for the Navy, and he told me, "We’re going to flight tonight. Would you like to see it?". I went out into the desert and watched it fly. It was kind of interesting, although it wasn’t a shock to me because I knew they were there. I said "So what else is now?" That would be Robert Lazar? L: Yes. We kept his name confidential for the year that we knew what he was doing. He came public here about a week ago on Channel 8’s two-week UFO special. You worked closely with Robert Lazar for a period of time. How much of that story can you tell us? L: Most all of it. There are some aspects of it that I cannot discuss to the public. You know what I am taking about. Yes. Is that area called Area 51? L: Well, Let me explain that what is known as the Test Site is an enormous area that borders between Caliente, Tonopah and Las Vegas. The very center of it called Area 51. It’s a 10 mile by 10 mile square which is called by various names. It’s called Groom Lake, Watertown, The Area, The Spot... all kinds of different names... the Red Square and Dreamland are two more. A lot of secret testing goes on there. The U-2, the SR-71, and Aurora have been tested there. What about the Aurora? L: Well, the Aurora is the follow-on for the SR-71. It cruises at mach 10 and has a ceiling of 285,000 feet. It is a three man aircraft that was built by General Dynamics. It is methane powered and currently operates out of Groom Lake. There are a lot of other secret programs that go on up there. The area called S-4 is where the saucers are flown. It’s approximately 10 miles southwest of Groom Lake. This is where they kept the nine extraterrestrial saucers that the government works on under a Navy project. Let me tell you. There are a lot more saucers, but they are kept in various other areas. They are working on these specific disks in order to get some of the technology out of them. The technology is so far advanced that there is very little hope of us using any of it. The other saucers are kept at Wright Patterson AFB, Kirtland AFB, Homestead AFB... there are about five other bases that they’re kept at. The last one that they recovered – the one that crashed in the desert in Botswana in May 1989 was taken to Wright Patterson in June and then it was transferred to Kirtland AFB sometime this year. It is now presently at Kirtland. If a reporter wanted really convincing footage of a UFO, is there a place that he could go? L: Yes, they could go to the road to the east of Rachel, Nevada and shoot to the south. It’s at sunset that they fly, and there’s no problem. The problem is that they expect to get things in 15 minutes. Most of the reporters are young and are just getting into this stuff. They show the same films on television that they have been showing for the last 20 years. They often test on Wednesday nights at Groom Lake. Are you familiar with the F-117A? L: Yes, The F-117A is the Stealth fighter. It has been operational since 1981. The first derivatives of the Stealth have been flown since 1981. It is flown out of the Tonopah Test Range , which is in the extreme northwest corner of the test site. It was tested at Groom Lake, but it doesn’t fly much there anymore. What would you see if you went up there? L: You would see the same thing I saw when I was invited up there March 22nd. In the distance, it looked like a dancing light. When I looked at it through a Calestron telescope it was definitely a disk. I saw it and others also saw it. They have something up there. L: There’s no doubt about it. Bob Lazar took a lie detector test and he was on Channel 8. He told people what the propulsion was about. It uses gravity amplifiers. When he took us out there one time the security forces caught us. It was legal for us to be on BLM land, but they have these storm troopers out there that work for the government. They come out and harass you. They know they can’t legally kick you out of there but they can certainly make it uncomfortable for you. They made it uncomfortable for us – certainly for Bob Lazar. They terminated his job with EG&G the next day. When he showed up to work one of the security officers put a gun in his hear. It was an unpleasant experience, but that’s the way the government operates. One of the thing that Channel 8 pointed out is that all of a sudden Bob had no school records or records of employment. They had all been erased. L: Yes. He has two degrees from MIT. He attended Pierce College and Caltech. He worked at Los Alamos on the SDI `project. He is a very brilliant scientist. If he attended all these schools, what about diplomas? L: They exist. I’ve seen them. The only news media that has a full copy of all his employment records and all his degrees is the Review Journal in Las Vegas, and they called Los Alamos and received all that information Fedex in May 1989. What happens to Robert Lazar now? He is virtually a non-being. L: He has his own business locally in which he works every day. One time you stated that we have the alien technology and that we have the ability to study it in ome way. How does that jibe with the fact that we appear to be flying these disks? We are obviously mastering some of their technology to be able to go that far. L: Well, we can fly it but can’t build it. It’s as if you took a SR-71 and dropped it into a WWI air base. There are some things that we have built with the technology that we have attained, but these are airplanes that the public has never seen and probably will never see. Much of the media suggests that the alien are warm, fuzzy ET’s that are benevolent. It occurred to me that since they are here and they haven’t gone public, that they could just as easily be bad guys as good guys. L: That certainly what I believe. If they were good guys, don’t you think that the government would want to release information about them after 40 years of contact? Would they tell us why they haven’t cured cancer, etc? If this is going on then the government would want to take advantage and claim credit for advances in science and medicine, but this doesn’t seem to be the case. It is apparent to me that this particular group of aliens that the government made arrangements with are not a good group of people. We are being visited by approximately 70 different races. The government, in 1963, was aware of 17 species according to the Grudge 13 report. Since then, ther have been other species discovered. The ones that the government made the deal with in the late 1960’s, the ones known as the Greys, are the ones that are giving us a problem. What are some of the main types of species that are here? L: The trade of technology was made with the Grey skinned beings about 4 feet tall with oversized heads. They have the almond shaped eyes. They have the armas that come down below their knees. They have four fingers. Two are longer than the others and they’re partially webbed. They have claws on the end. That’s one type. There’s another type that’s about the same height with a more roundish type head and roundish eyes. These are the ones that are supposedly from Zeta Reticuly. We have ones that look like humans. There are all kinds of different ones. I have no doubt that some of those are friendly, but the ones we have the problems with are the Greys. If some of the aliens are bad and wish us ill will, then you could almost understand why the government must be in a desperate search to try and understand and duplicate their technology so that we could defend ourselves. Does that make sense? L: That makes sense, and that’s exactly what’s going on. You have to understand that this is the biggest and most important secret in the history of mankind. The people that are involved in this programs have to sign a security oath and also a piece of paper saying that they agree to give up their Constitutional Rights to a fair trial if they get into the program. That means if they divulge information they can be killed or committed for the rest of their lives to a mental institution. How does that bear on what Robert Lazar has done going public? L: Well, it’s only been a week since he made his statements. We’re waiting to see what happens. Do you think that some guys in black suits are going to walk in and... L: I dont’t know. His friends are worried about him. That’s where it stands. I bought the book "Alien Harvest" by Linda Howe, and its an excellent book that I would recommend to anyone. L: I would too. I spent a lot of time researching with Linda Howe and drove trough Colorado, Arizona and New Mexico with her on some of my research. She ’s a very knowledgeable lady. You mentioned that she had information relating the Kennedy assassination and UFO’s, and I wonder if you could shed some light on that. She really didn’t cover it in the book. L: Well, to disgress a moment, there were two times that the Government was going to tell the people about the existence of flying saucers and aliens. The first time was in 1972 when MJ-12 contracted Grey Advertising in Los Angeles and had them write a documentary which was called "UFO’s are Real". Robert Emmanegger was the man who wrote it, and he was taken to Norton AFB and shown still photos of the original film of the landing at Holloman AFB in New Mexico which occurred ........................................................and narrated by Rod Serling. It was essentially a whole history of UFO’s and at the end of the documentary they were going to have the actual footage of the saucer landing and the aliens getting out. What happened was Watergate. The powers to be decided that the public could not handle two traumatic experiences at one time, so they cancelled the release to the public, They did however, release the documentary. At the end they replaced the motion picture footage of the actual event with drawings. Rod Serling says, "let’s consider an event that may happen in the future or already may have happened". Of course it had happened. The second time the Government was going to let the public know some of what was going on was in 1983 when they contacted Linda Howe. Linda Howe was the go-between between MJ-12 and Home Box Office (HBO). She was to have access to 68,000 feet of motion picture film of disks, landing, etc. She was also to meet one of the aliens, designated EBE-II, who was kept at Los Alamos National Laboratories in New Mexico. I have since talked with a scientist who worked there and who verified that it was approved for her to meet the alien. For some reason, all of this did not come off and the project was cancelled. During the time that Linda Howe functioned as the go-between between MJ-12 and HBO, she was talked in more or less an effort to let her know how serious this was, that the powers to be had to eliminate President Kennedy because he wanted to release the information on the disks and the aliens in 1963. Since then, we have talked to people to have heard the recording made in the Oval Office when Kennedy pounded his fist and told the representatives of MJ-12, "you guys better get your stuff together because I’m going to tell the public". There are people who would suggest that this is just why he was assassinated. L: There were several reasons why he was assassinated. One was the Bay of Pigs fiasco, another was that he had threatened to "shatter the CIA in to a thousand pieces". A third reason was because he threatened to pull our all Americans from Vietnam by 1965. The fourth was that he intended to expose the alien-disk cover-up. A lot of people may not understand what MJ-12 is. L: ............................................................................ ........................................................................Pres ident Truman by Executive Order on September 24, 1947, approximately two months after they recovered the first disk near Roswell, New Mexico. Their job was to report to the President on the technology and maintain the cover-up. The group has been in control of every major decision in the United States since that time. Why has it been so long since a major incident like Roswell has come into the public eye? L: It shows the extent and effort put into the cover-up. They’ve done one hell of a job. How far have we flown the craft that we have? L: I don’t know for a fact. I assume from what I have heard that we have gone to the Moon and several of the planets. I say that because a friend of mine has seen photos taken on mars which indicate that there are cities, with buildings, doors and windows. Recently there was a reported sighting in the Soviet Union where several entities approximately nine feet tall emerged from a spacecraft. Where do these people fit in your catalogue of fuzzy people? Who in the Government appoints MJ-12 successors? If Mr. Lazar is committed by the government for telling what he knew, are the psychologists there sworn to secrecy too? L: I’m sure the Soviet sighting is credible. I have personally never heard of entities that are nine feet tall, although that does not mean they don’t exist. The last questions demonstrate some little knowledge of how the government works. MJ-12 appoints their successors. All of the original MJ-12 are dead. The last to die was Gordon Grey around 1983. We don’t know all the names of the current MJ group. I can give you some names of people who are heavily involved in the cover-up. One is Edward Teller, the so called "father of the H Bomb", who hired Robert Lazar to work at the Test Site. Dr. Teller is in charge of the disk program up at the Test Site. He’s also the father of the Star Wars program. How does that fit into all of this? Brilliant pebble. L: I don’t know anything about the Star Wars except that it does what it was designed to do but was finished in 1984. All the money that is being appropriated for Stars Wars at this moment is being diverted to other programs including the programs at S-4. If that’s so, it points to the desperate nature of the work going on at Area 51. L: That’s right. In answer to the last question about Robert Lazar if he was committed, the people who would do that would not employ people who would reveal the information. One of the persons who......................................................................... ...time is Paul Bennewitz. We all know that he was the father of exposing all this stuff in 1979. He ran Thunder Scientific Corporation, who made temperature monitoring equipment for the Air Force. He leaves in Albuquerque, New Mexico. His house faced toward the Manzano Weapons Storage Area. He was the first one to get pictures of disks taken off and landing there at Kirtland AFB. He took this photos down to Kirtland and said something like, "hey you guys, look at what’s going on!". They were so shocked that it took them about six years to get him in an asylum. He has not done much since he emerged from there. If Robert Lazar has worked with this disks and he has signed a Security Agreement, as well as made the information. If they come to him in any way at all right now, won’t they just lend credence to his story? L: That’s what we would think. That’s what we are hoping – that he’ll be safe by making this statements. It will be interesting to see what will be happening in the next few weeks with Bob. Do you know if S-4 pumps out any frequencies that we can listen to? L: All communications there are done on VHF and UHF. If you go up there with a frequency counter and a scanner, you can find out what frequencies they’re transmitting on. The guards, up until last friday, transmitted on 138.3 but when they changed it when they found out that it was public knowledge. If you go up there and monitor UHF, you can actually hear them talking from the ground to the disks at 220 Megacycles. Have you seen an alien? L: No Sir, I have not. Have you seen a disk? L: Yes, I did see the one that government flew on march 22nd, and that’s the only one I‘ve ever seen. How big it was? L: Well, it was about three miles from where we were standing to the Groom Lake area. I’m not very good at sizes, but I would imagine that it had a diameter of from 30 to 50 feet. Is Tesla technology involved in this? L: I’m sure it is, but like I said, I’m just an airplane pilot and I don’t know about that stuff. What can you say about Forrestal? L: Forrestal was the secretary of Defense. He was one of the original MJ-12 team put together by President Truman. They say he committed suicide in 1950 but that was not the case. In fact, he was thrown out the hospital window with his arms tied behind his back. Who did it? L: Your guess is as good as mine. Can humanity handle all this? Wouldn’t religion and the economy be disrupted? L: It probably would, and that’s probably why it’s is a secret. Everybody that I have talked to about this...when they realize that this information may be true, their first question is, "well what about God?". After the George Knapp special and the Lazar thing, I haven’t heard of any suicides around Las Vegas. On November 24th NASA announced plans to have a manned mission to the moon for 30 days in the year 2001, and to establish a nuclear powered base on the moon as a stepping stone to a Mars flight. Comment? L: I hate to dissapoint you, but most of us are not going to make it to the year 2001. Why? L: If you listen to the tape made by Dr. Strecker on AIDS, which was created by government, seventy-five percent of the earth’s population, will be dead by 1996. They are going to try to keep the earth’s population at 25%. Look at the tape. It will tell you how and when the AIDS virus was made. Contact the Strecker Institute in Los Angeles for more information. The government will stop the virus when the population reaches 25 percent. How do you reconcile flying saucers and the idea of God? L: Well, if UFO’s are real, either God had something to do with it or He didn’t. If God have something to do with it, who built the flying saucers? If God didn’t have anything to do with it, who built the flying saucers? I know more about this, but it may be something the public should not know at this time. Do you mean we’re not ready to know it? L: No I don’t think so. It would be very frightening to most people, to say the least. The public has a hard time grasping the idea of flying saucers – how are they going to grasp the absolute.................................................................... ...........................................? I was stationed at Kirtland AFB in Alburquerque, New Mexico? L: What year, sir? Between 1951 and 1953 L: Those were very interesting years. I had a minor administrative position, but I was stationed with a unit that was dealing with flying saucers while I was there. My position didn’t allow me too much exposure, but my best friend who was stationed with me was involved. The thing I wanted to tell you was that I talked to a Tech Sergeant that was involved in the B-29 atomic program there. He told me that during the Second World War he saw a flying saucer disassembled at Norton AFB, and he was subsequently transferred to Aniwetok Island in the Pacific after it was discovered that he knew it. L: Norton AFB was a very important facility. It was the repository of most of the motion picture film that the government has on UFO’s and there were a number of disks kept there. The organization that I was with had thousands of feet of film that showed different kinds of flying objects. L: That’s very interesting. 1952 was a very interesting year. They flew over the White House during a two week period in the year. I have gotten ahold of a copy of the book called MATRIX. How much of that do you believe is true? L: There is a lot of very interesting information in that book. A great deal of it came right off my desk. If you could ask me about a specific document? How about the Krill papers? L: The Krill papers were written by the same person who wrote the MATRIX, and both he and I have done a tremendous amount of research, and he just used the name Krill because he works in a very sensitive position and didn’t want his name known. Those are basically his ideas. With the MATRIX and some of the others books I have been reading I think that it’s pretty scary and that some of it should be kept under wraps. I don ’t think that the general public is ready for what I have been reading, anyway. L: Well, I agree with you there. This keeps coming back like a bad dream. There is something so dire and scary that the public can’t know. Is there a time in the future when you can tell it all? L: I don’t think we have much time for people to understand what’s going on. People should enjoy their life. The whole program of the extraterrestrials was the Organize and Pacify. Remember those two words. There is so much going on that there is no way to bring everyone up to speed. Is there more to the abductions than people report? What kind of trouble are we having with the Greys? Are they good or bad? L: The ones that the government is dealing with are the bad guys. There are good ones here, but apparently they aren’t directly a parte of what’s going on. If the ones were dealing with are good, why did they murder 44 scientists and 66 military members at one of the bases? I know someone who read that document; a document that discussed that particular incident, which happened in 1979. I presume this has been covered up. L: Certainly. I know one of the families of one of the people that was killed – Dr Gary Henderson, who testified before Congress. He worked for General Dynamics, and in 1979 he disappeared off the face of the earth. He was involved in that division of General Dynamics which deals with UFO’s. We looked for him and found out that he had been attached to a Top Secret detachment that was stationed up at the Test Site. He was one of those 44 scientists. The Government has a way of going to families and giving them money to "help them over their problems". Isn’t the Government murdering people by introducing AIDS into the general population? L: Well, yes sir. We can’t do anything about this? L: No sir. Will the earth be taken over by the aliens? L: I don’t know. One of the problems in this research is that I wish I had all the answers. All I’m telling you is that I know to be true. I will also tell you when I am speculating. As far as the AIDS things is concerned, I know that to be true. There’s nothing we can do about it? We just sit back and die at their leisure? L: Yes. It wouldn’t even remotely occur to people that people as high as the Joint Chiefs of Staff were involve in the murder of Kennedy – how are they going to understand the AIDS problem? I want proof. If we’re all doomed because of AIDS, there has to be way to reveal this, and once revealed begin to do something about it. You have to take steps. You say they have a way to cure it. L: Yes. Then there has to be a way to bring pressure to bear so they will bring out the cure before Genocide occurs. L: It’s not in the plan. The overall plan is to get rid of 75% OF US. You can’t go agains’t the plan. That’s what we have to put up with. Is there any approach to change this? L: You can tell people, but they are not going to believe you. They don’t even believe in flying saucers. How are they going to believe that? It would seem like people with such advanced knowledge as some of these aliens would be benign in nature. Apparently, I’m wrong. L: Yes sir, you certainly are wrong. As far as interchange between species is concerned, do you go out and talk to cows and try and relate with them and teach them mathematics, or do you just use them for food? Well, I don’t go out and talk to them, and I don’t use them for food – that much. L: What if I were to tell you that the planet Earth was just a farm. Ok, I can see that. Have they been doing genetic experiments with humans? L: Well, yes. In fact we are just one big genetic experiment. You don’t seriously believe that we came from the fish in the sea and just evolved in 16 billion years to what we are now. The chances of that happening are 20 quadrillion to 1. It just couldn’t happen. Astronomers have recently located an object in space... a pulsar...which they believe is hundreds of billions of years old. The discovery of this pulsar throws a monkey wrench into every theory of evolution. L: It certainly does. I can’t help wonder if they’re trying to get around to tell us the truth, but I doubt it, knowing what the truth is. How does the Secret Government stay in control and keep a lot of the wealthy people from knowing what’s going on? L: It’s a complicated question. The 13 major banks. The Rockefellers and Rotchilds – they know what’s happening. The Council for Foreign Relations knows. How do they keep the flying saucer thing secret? They do it with drugs and hypnosis. It’s very very sophisticated. It was developed starting in 1955. They do it by first drugging the person who is brought into the program in combination with hypnosis. They structure it so that when a person works in the project, he’s totally knowledgeable and conversant, but when he leaves, the memory leaves with him. The main reason that we found out what was happening to Bob Lazar was that we were probing using regressive hypnosis. He could remember going up there and coming back but he couldn’t remember some of the things that went on up there. He has very clear memories that were not affected by the hypnosis and the drugs of looking inside the disk at S-4, of seeing it flies, of working with the technology. There are a lot of other things that he was privy to that didn’t come out until we did the regressive hypnosis. We have live aliens up at Area 51? L: Beyond the shadow of doubt. If they are not necessarily friendly, and we are trying to discern what their technology is about as we fly their craft around...have we put the thumbscrews to these guys...have we even tried to communicate with them? L: We can communicate with them. We’ve had three over the years...EBE1, EBE2 and EBE3. They were named by Doctor Detlev Bronk, who was on the original MJ-12 team. EBE stands for Extraterrestrial Biological Entity. We’ve learned that they recovered one more live alien from the Kalahari desert in South Africa in may 1989. I have a five-page report from the South African Air Force that someone managed to steal from the country. They sent two C-5ª’s to.........................................,and the one live alien. Both C5A ’s operate out of Wright Patterson. One has a controlled environment built inside the airplane. They can change the air to accomodate the aliens. The other C-5ª is equipped to transport the disks. Are you in a position to release any of the South African information? L: Its out there. Its been in the Nevada Aerial Research report. Have you seen Barbara Honnegger’s book, "October Surprise"? Do you agree with that? L: I not only agree with her...I sent her some of the information I has when I was flying in Cairo that supports what she’s saying. It’s beyond a shadow of a doubt that in october of 1980 the Reagan political group, before they were elected, cut a deal with Komeini in Iran to delay the release of the hostages for 76 days in return for the arms shipments. The reason I know that is I was part of the shipments in 1980 and 81. They sabotaged the helicopters that were sent in to ‘rescue’ the hostages, too, didn’t they? L: They certainly did, but that’s only part of it. If there was even the tiniest shred of proof, wouldn’t the Democrats have used that to win the election? L: Well, there are certain reasons why they can’t do that. Some of them were part of it. I was there, and I was part of the arms shipments, other than running the guns themselves, so I know that it happened. You said that 75% of the population is scheduled to be eliminated by 1996. Is that by an AIDS virus contrived by our government? L: Yes. Our Government created the AIDS virus. It was introduced by the World Health Organization into Africa in 1972. The public is being told that there are 20,000 cases a year when in fact there are 5,000,000, and in fact that doubles every year, so by 1996 it will have reached 75% of the worlds population. Was this WHO thing part of a vaccination program? L: Part of the final vaccination series which ..............................., also introduced the AIDS virus. Could you elaborate about the face picture in Mars? You said at one point that there were buildings up there? L: Yes, I get my information from Dr. Brandenburg, who has been involved in the research that covers that area on Mars. He was initially hired by NASA to research that area. They terminated the research for some reason and he went on with a group that did it on their own. Its called the Mars Research Project. He gave a paper at the MUFON convention in July which was very very interesting. What he says is that it is clearly evident that those are not natural formations, that indeed they were formed by some intelligent group, and in fact that the city that lies to the southwest about 10 or 15 miles is and was a city for some kind of race that lived on Mars. He has quite a bit of documentation to prove it. and on my own end, I have somebody who actually saw some pictures that the government keeps secret that clearly shows that it is, in fact, a city. If the Star Wars program was finished in 1984, and they are still allocating money for it, why doesn’t someone tell them? L: You have to understand that there are two realities here. The reality of what’s really going on as far as the planet Earth is concerned, and there’s the reality that you are involved in, where you believe in Congress and you believe that they run the United States, and you believe in the branches of government and that they make the laws, etc. What you’re saying probably explains their behavior than anything else. You mentioned a couple of books one time that were important. What were they?. L: One is called Majestic. By Whiteley Strieber. The other was the MATRIX, which is no longer for sale. I don’t think there are any copies in existence other than the ones that were first published. Another book is "On the Trail of the Assassins" by Jim Garrison, about the Kennedy assassination. Is it possible that the aliens only see us as a source of food? Are there tanks with body parts at Groom Lake? L: The tanks are not at Groom Lake. They are at other underground bases, one of which is near Dulce, New Mexico. It is possible that some of the aliens see us as a source of food, but I don’t think that is the whole story. Are you hesitant to talk about this aspect? L: Yes. It is true that you are castigated by most of the so-called rank and file UFO researchers because of your statements about the negative nature of the aliens? L: They don’t like what I have to say. The rank and file of the researchers, MUFON and the like, they like to go out and drink a cup of tea and talk about UFO’s, but they really don’t want to know what’s going on. As I understand it, there is speed more than the speed of light. Can you comment on this? A second question would be whether the aliens can target whom they wish? L: Yes, you can travel hundreds of thousands faster than the speed of light without breaking the basic laws of physics. Bob Lazar could explain it perfectly. It basically involves thew folding of time and space. On the disk, or at least the one Bob was working on, they have gravity amplifiers. They pull one side of the universe closer, and then they turn it off and you ’re there. It’s a difficult concept for most people to grasp. As far as aliens targeting a certain individual, we have evidence that they can and do. There is supposedly this thing where they have to have your permission to invade your privacy and most people apparently willingly give it. How much the Congressmen and Senators know about this stuff? L: Congress knows relatively nothing. How about the President? L: Our current President knows more than the rest because he was director of Central Intelligence in 1976. He was also involved in the Agency as early as 1960. So he has a little bit better input than Carter or Reagan. Carter couldn’t fulfill his promise to make UFO information known. Reagan has mentioned "what if we were attacked by alien species from outside the planet...wouldn’t it get us all together" five times in different speeches. Are all the governments included in this problem? L: The soviets know a little bit. They were invited to S-4 to learn a little. As Bob Lazar has said. For some reason, they were kicked off the program. He doesn’t know why. Gorbechev has said the same thing in his speeches about the threat from space. What about the idea that the government is trying to disarm us? L: My personal opinion, if I were a cynic, would be that they are in fact trying to disarm the public, so that when they make their final move that there will be no resistance. I have heard that there is film that distinctly shows a mining process going on on the other side of the moon. What do you know about that? L: That’s for sure. I know a person in Houston who flew on of my dad’s airplanes. He was shown by a NASA photographer one of the frames taken by Frank Borman on the back side of the moon on Apollo 8 of the mining equipment. The way he described it is that it was about three hundred feet long and it was shaped like a "T". It appeared like it was kicking up dust, like it was moving when the shot was taken. Who do you think would be involved in the mining? L: I don’t know. Presumably either the government or some aliens or a consortium? L: Possibly. To be told that there is this massive threat and then to be told that we virtually can do nothing about it absolutely wears on me. L: Well, come up with a suggestion. What would you like to do about it? Where would we start? I don’t know. L: In order to solve a problem, you have to understand the problem. If you can understand that our government was usurped and taken over by this small group of individuals starting in the early ..............................................we can get going. The problem is that most people still believe that Congress makes the decisions and the President runs the country. As long as they believe that, there is nothing we can do. Until they accept everything, they can’t start down the road to recovery? L: That’s right, and I don’t believe there’s any way you’re going to get the majority of the people to accept it. They’re too busy watching ‘Wheel of Fortune’ and being Organized and Pacified. Why do you continue to expose yourself, despite the fact that you lost a job and open yourself up to ridicule? L: I wish I had the answer to that question. I really do. I’m not on a crusade. It’s certainly nothing I wish to continue. Could you elaborate on the 44 scientists that you say were killed by the aliens? L: Yes. It was a story that came to me from two sources about two years ago. It was confirmed by someone who read a document up at the Test Site. Apparently in the late 1960’s we made a deal with whoever it was that we would receive highly advanced technology in return for covering up the existence of the aliens and what they are doing. We thought that we would get advanced weaponry that we could use against our enemies, but in fact it turned out that we did get a lot of technology that was non-weapon oriented. These scientists were working at a highly classified facility, and in 1979 they collectively came upon information which indicated that something really really bad was going on. What it was, specifically, I do not know. Maybe they found out about the AIDS plan. It became necessary for the aliens to eliminate these 44 scientists. Whatever it was that happened, 66 Delta troops were sent in and ended up being killed along with the scientists. The document my friend read was dated 1981, and that’s all I know. I’ve been told that 35% of the people in Africa are infected with AIDS. L: It’s more like 100%. That’s where it started. Africa’s gone. Were we in essence hoodwinked? L: I believe that to be true. Yes. So, we are stumbling around up at Area 51 trying to get something useful from the saucers. Do you have any information as to whether we’ve have actually realized anything of any use at all yet? L: No, because it’s too far advanced. It’s maybe 100,000 to 500,000 years in advance of our technology. Bob Lazar talked about the fuel, which is Element 115. Our periodic table of elements only goes up to 103, and we can only produce that element for microseconds using enormous amounts of power. For us to even think of making Element 115 is absolutely impossible. What is element 115? L: This is what fuels the basic power source. It drives an anti-matter reactor, which drives the gravity amplifiers, which supplies the propulsion. We can’t even figure out how it can possibly be made, but there it is. We have 500 pounds of it. These aliens are using our planet. How does that relate to the universal mind? L: You’re pretty close to what Paul Davies, a brilliant British physicist said. He said: "a major assumption which goes into discussions of space colonization and interstellar communication is that biological intelligence in societies represent the supreme example of organization and complexity of matter. We have to face the fact that we may only belong to a transient stratum in a whole hierarchy of levels in organization and development". What about cows? Don’t we raise them and keep them happy just to eat? Why would we think that we would be any different for a higher level? Because so much of what you say probably scares the hell out of people, and then when you say that you can’t reveal the rest of the information, try to get us to understand why. L: Well, all you are talking about revealing is really the ultimate of what is going on, and there’s no reason to do that because most of the people don ’t even believe the beginnings of it. It is somehow tied to religion, isn’t it? L: Absolutely. You say it is ultimate. Is it because you feel that the public wouldn’t understand it? Because you feel it wouldn’t do any good? That it would just stir up trouble? L: It’s just too incredible. If I blurted it out now and told you what I feel to be truth, it would be ridiculous. You’d say, "Oh, well that can possibly be, because of this and that". In other words, you feel that the truth is so far out of sight that people would discredit everything you would say. L: That’s basically it. I appreciate the explanation. How can people protect themselves if the aliens decide to take them? L: There’s no way to protect yourself. Can we pray? L: I don’t think that would do very much good. You have said that some of these beings are evil. L: Well, what’s evil? Is it evil that we raise cows to eat? Is there a forum somewhere in which you could reveal the information that you cannot now reveal? L: I doubt it. Things are happening so fast. I’m not involved in this any more. In other words, it’s such a done deal that there’s absolutely no point in revealing, pursuing it or anything else because there is nothing that can be done? L: I would say that that is an accurate statement. Damn. L: Can you tell me about some of the alien races? Could we look to some of the good ones for help? If this is as bad as it seems, it seems to me that our race and the governments that lead us would think about destroying the world before they would let us be food for somebody else. There are at least 70 alien races that we know of. There are millions more. Carl Sagan, when he was part of a Presidential panel, estimated that there are at least 1 million races similar to ours in the universe. Why can’t the good ones help us? We made our deal with the bad ones and apparently there is some kind of agreement of non interference. In other words, we .........................., and we can’t make a deal and then say, "oh, we made a mistake, can you help us out?". Apparently, that doesn’t work. Would the government consider blowing up the earth to keep us all from dying? All I’m going to tell you is that I’m laughing inwardly because I know something you don’t and I’m not going to tell you about it. This must be very frustrating for you. L: I got to the point where I knew what was happening and I thought, "what should I do? Should I try and tell people? So I tried to tell them for a while, and it doesn’t work. To be in that 25% that will survive, do you believe that if we don’t have sex or only have safe sex that we will survive? L: Absolutely not. It has nothing to do with sex or venereal disease. Some will be spared and others will not? L: That’s exactly right. Are you considering any personal survival plan? L: No, all I’m doing is spending time with my family and just enjoying life. Are you the only one who knows the truth? L: Well, all the people involved in the cover-up know. There must be at least 100,000 people in the government. You have the secret government police force, which is the Defense Security system... there are probably 10,000 people in that group, which was originally for defense security... believe me they do al lot more. I have a couple things to say, and tell me if I’m wrong. The being that we know as Christ is an alien. The star that we celebrate at Christmas was a space ship. The Earth is already on a self-destruct mission with that Jupiter probe. The trip to the moon in 2001 that NASA was talking about will be for the survivors of this planet. L: Some of those comments are correct. Some of them I won’t comment on. I guess everyone will have to deal with what you’ve said and deal with it in their own way. L: Right. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- [WHO IS BEHIND] <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. 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