Hi Nessie,
I suppose it all boils down to whether one has to be pragmatic and perfect
to believe a simple concept such as is revealed in the Bible to Abraham who
is considered
the patriarch of the Holy Promise... that is, the hope in the Messiah, for
Salvation, specifically.
Then there are people who question it's validity should follow the
historical record,
to learn the truth of the matter. But most people are too lazy and don't
have
time to do this, and would rather believe a bunch of "crap" they've been
told,
because it's easier, and less time consuming...
OR...
If people willingly choose to consistently find errors in the Bible, then
that is what they will find. I find that the problem with people who feel
that the Bible has a lot of "crap" in it... are looking to find "crap" and
errors. These same types of people don't want to believe what the Bible
says to begin with, so basically, it's a waste of time.
Sure, various men wrote the Bible, but it all hinges on whether you believe
that GOD is great enough to preserve His own written work, regardless of
men's interpretations. If you don't believe that God is great enough to
preserve His Word for ever... or by divine inspiration... then you will
focus on the errors and mistakes of men and never trust that God is able to
do all things, even down to providing you with the TRUTH, *IF* (notice
the condition) you so desire.
I personally choose to believe as Jesus taught in John 16...
as my faith commits:
"... when the Spirit of Truth, is come [unto you], He will guide you into
all truth:
for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that
shall He
speak; and He will show you things to come.
He shall glorify Me [Jesus Christ]; for He shall receive of Mine, and
shall
show it unto you.
All things that the Father hath are Mine; therefore said I that He shall
take
of Mine, and shall show it unto you."
~John 16:13-15
I do not have time for petty arguments about the Bible...
not speaking necessarily of this list... but at any time...
because of this statement by Jesus through John, alone.
For IF the Spirit of Truth shows you that the Bible is full of
"crap"... then so be it. That is what it would have you to believe. This
is
another reason why I do not care what people believe or why. But I believe
that people have the right to express what they believe, and if someone
disagrees, they should be willing to give valid documentation, not just a
shallow argument/debate. OR they should just plainly say, "I do not
agree".
However, it is a fact that God has sent out many 'lying spirits' and strong
delusion to those who do not want to believe or quest for the real truth...
and so it is documented in 1-Kings ch 22:15-40
"...And the Lord said, 'Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall
at Ramoth-Gilead?' And the Lord said unto him, 'Wherewith?' And he said, 'I
will go forth and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his
prophets.' And he said, 'Thou shalt persuade him [Ahab], and prevail also:
go forth, and do so.' Now therefore, behold, the LORD HATH PUT A LYING
SPIRIT IN THE MOUTH OF ALL THESE THY PROPHETS, and the Lord hath spoken evil
concerning thee.' "
It happens in the last days also...
"... for this cause GOD SHALL SEND A STRONG DELUSION that that should
believe a lie..." ~2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
People must have a strong love for the truth, and that is literally, a
strong DESIRE for the truth... for God knows the hearts and the reigns of
all. The desire must be genuine and valid before it is given to them.
That is just the way I see it... and is also grounds for the reason Jesus
said that the gate to truth was strait and narrow and there would be few who
find it.
You want to talk about "love" in the Bible? The way I see the love of God,
certainly is not the way I perceive it from various so-called Christians I
know... I would take that saying... "What would Jesus do?" and change it
to "What Jesus wouldn't do." ... (if so-called Christians even know what He
wouldn't do), and it would make more sense.
There is nothing that I can find in the Bible about reincarnation, but
rather a continued life of the soul that eventually comes to judgment,
which simply means reward or punishment.
I do not speak for all Christians, only for myself regarding
homosexuality... As far as I'm concerned, it was forbidden in the Bible
for very good reasons. I maintain that those reasons are as valid today as
they were in the beginning. However, I see the sin of homosexuality a
flesh / carnal sin... and I see spiritual sin as carrying much more weight
in judgment. Everyone does something with the flesh that is not healthy...
that really doesn't matter. Once the flesh dies, it returns to dust. It
is the spirit and soul of the person that God is concerned with. If you
have experiences with so called Christians that thump on people for
homosexual reasons... they simply do not understand that it is a carnal
sin, not a spiritual sin. But because as long as we are alive in the flesh
body, we must deal with the carnal... it's simply my opinion and belief
that I choose not to agree with homosexuality, but I do not wear it on my
sleeve, nor will I condemn anyone for their actions, because it's
ultimately between them and God in the final analysis. Forcing someone to
change because "God says so..." only causes further animosity than is
probably already there. Most homosexuals know the taboo that the Bible puts
on that aspect of the carnal. It's none of my business to try to convert
them. However, it does not mean I have to agree with homosexual tenents or
the lifestyle.
eagle 1
----- Original Message -----
From: "nessie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Facts and Statistics About Fags
> eagle@OK PLUS.COM,Internet writes:
> No wonder so many people feel that the Bible is full of " it "....
>
> I'm not a believer, and I have a lot of problems with a lot of what is in
> the Bible. But in all fairness, I must say that the Bible also contains
> some truly great literature and more valid philosophy and morals than
> anyone really needs. I read mine. It also contains a lot of crap. The
> problem is that it was written over a long period by a variety of men.
> Each and every one of them had his own personal axe to grind. Then there
> were the editors. This thing as been censored and amended repeatedly.
>
> Let's look at one example. Reincarnation was once part of early Christian
> dogma. It was voted out at (I think it was) the Council of Nicea. All
> references to reincarnation in scripture were stricken. But the censors
> missed one. At one point Jesus asks his disciples who the people think he
> is. Peter answers "Elija." There are many, many such inconsistencies in
> scripture which can be directly related to the enormous changes it went
> through when Christianity was adopted by the Roman empire as a tool of
> state social control, and the state censors got ahold of it.
>
> The other problem with the Bible, and also with the Koran, and the
> Bhagavid Gita, and to a lesser extent the Pali Sutras, is that they all
> contain enough vagaries and contradictions that ambitious and amoral
> people can manipulate them to their own political ends by selectively
> choosing those passages which reinforce their own opinions and prejudices
> which they wish us to adopt. How many, I wonder, of these people who are
> so worked up about Leviticus keep kosher? How many religiously avoid
> wearing garments made from more than one kind of thread? How many grow
> beards with unrounded corners? Those that don't, and yet denounce
> homosexuality, are hypocrites.
>
> The very essence of Christianity is supposed to be love. Where is the
> homophobes' basic Christian love? If in fact sin is a valid concept at
> all, does not their own Bible admonish them to "love the sinner and hate
> the sin"? If in fact Christians, Jews and Muslims are right and the
> Creator and Creation are separate, then the only reason imaginable for
> Creation to exist is the Creator's love. The god of Christians, Jews and
> Muslims is, by their own account a loving and merciful god. So emulate
> him, already. And if he is also a just and vengeful god, does it not make
> sense to avoid ticking him off by disrespecting some of his creations?
>
> And where's the conspiracy angle in all this? Simple. The tiny handful of
> men who rule this planet don't want us talking about what they're up to.
> The want us to talk about something else. Sex is an easy distraction.
> Everybody like to talk about sex. So we did, as soon as it was brought up.
> And if we want to talk about it some more, the Net is full of places to do
> it. But this list isn't one of them. So let's get back to the topic of
> this list and talk about that here and talk about sex somewhere else.
.
>
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