-Caveat Lector- Original thread: > I went into the local gun shop Saturday just to stash up on some good earplugs > for sleeping. I was listening to the > conversation, and they said that Jan 1 01, all guns are outlawed in Canada but > single shot hunting rifles. Is that true? Any > thoughts on what Canadians will do? The folks in the shop expect serious > resistance. > > I asked the old guy who owns the shop what he thinks will happen if Gore wins, > and he said he expects guns to be outlawed > very quickly. If so, would we probably still be allowed to have single shot > rifles too? I realize a lot of you plan to get your guns > burglarized very quickly and not have them around any longer to turn in, so > sad, but I'm wondering what might still be legal for > self defense in the home. TimeBombY2000 ... TimeBomb2000 ...... [gvt] gun question Subject: Re: [gvt] gun question Posted By: ExCop (Registered User) Posted At: 9/25/00 12:36:06 pm From IP: Where do we go from here? By Mark Donges, a proud KABA member www.keepandbeararms.com/n...icleid=607 During the war of the revolution, the people of the 13 colonies were about evenly divided into thirds. Those who were loyal to King George, those who longed for freedom and were willing to do something about it (my Minute Man ancestor), and those who were not engaged at all. Fast forward to the present, and we see similar groupings of the populace. Those who love America and the Constitution, those who would subvert them both in the name of good feelings and the Democrat party, usually for some gain in wealth or power, and those who either don�t or can�t care. (by virtue of their association with the Government School System or via some kind of chemical impairment) As I pondered this strange and frankly frustrating situation I realized that we are losing sight of some key issues. First, we are talking about America and its very survival as a nation. Once you change the contents of the Constitution, the fact that the title on the paper is �The Constitution of the United States� is of little concern. You have lost at that point. Second, we are fragmented amongst ourselves. There are so many groups that claim to work for the American and his/her values, but there is no cohesive task force, no consistent message. The largest, the NRA, with nearly 4 million members has begun to advocate laws that sound very much to me like an infringement on the second amendment. Other groups do have a posture of no compromise, but they are just one of many. At best these organizations have only slowed down the rate of decay. The patient still has cancer. Third, if the experience of a large number of Americans is to be believed, the Judiciary has been turned and is now the possession of persons intent on perpetrating evil on America. Fourth, the major media in America has also been corrupted and is now an organ for those aforementioned evil forces. All pretense at objectivity have been dropped. Fifth, and perhaps most disturbing, a significant percentage of the populace of America has been, in 1930�s Germany fashion, deceived by the evil which now occupies our government. Know thy Enemy The excellent discussion, �Two Roads for America� by a Texan (Never mess with Texas!) clearly and accurately stated who the enemy is. I�d like to add insight into the attributes of what I consider to be the three major groups in America that I think will ultimately be involved in whatever solution is attempted. Lets begin with the group I identify with. We are patriots. We love our country. Some were called to service, others were not. The sight of the flag and the national anthem cause an emotional response. We love liberty. We respect each other and the bounty that God has provided us, and we acknowledge and thank Him. We do not suffer fools gladly, but we try to see the other guy's point of view. We use logic and facts to make our points and win our debates. We generally behave as gentlemen. We exercise restraint and moderation, usually too damn much. The second group, whom I�ve labeled as Un-Americans (since they are such strong supporters of hyphenated Americans), consists of people who are very active in the political process at all levels, believe that there are more rights than Carter has liver pills, want equality for all, with themselves being a bit more equal, will dominate the agenda with lies, distortions and frivolous law suits designed to strip Americans of their citizenship since the ends justify the means. These folks believe that government knows best and that big government is the only solution to the problems of the world. And, of course never let facts (or laws) interfere with the conduct of their business. The Un-American can only survive if they are in positions of authority and completely control the lives of their subjects. They do not believe in compromise, except where it allows an incremental advancement of their agenda to replace individual rights with a Marxist style of social order. The third group is almost not worth wasting time on. They have no passion. They have no opinion. They only respond to discomfort. They are intellectually fat and lazy. Unwilling to think for themselves, they swallow the lies the major media outlets put forth with zero effort to verify the supposed �facts.� They have no linkage to America and her culture and really could not and should not be considered American citizens. The majority of their knowledge of history was obtained via Disney movies. Where do we stand in relation to each other? We can ignore the lazy group. They will not object unless the TV is turned off or Monday Night Football is canceled. They are foolish enough to be easily stampeded, and as such can be minimally useful to either of the two remaining groups. They owe allegiance to no one and are owed none. So, this leaves us with the two groups who have strong feelings. The Un-Americans will not give up their pattern of destruction of America and all it stands for. They cling to some undefined goal, perhaps a large Cuba, although none of the other socialist experiments has worked so one has to wonder why this would be an objective. It is my belief that these people have never considered failure as an option. What will they do if their plan succeeds and after they are no longer useful, find themselves in the same boat as the people they helped to oppress? By then it will be too late for them as well as us. They ignore history - to our collective peril. The Patriots on the other hand are slow to anger and cautious in responding. They are determined to play by the rules they love so dearly. Rules that are incapable of addressing an amoral people. Patriots have a blind spot where the rule of law is concerned. They play by the rules, even when those who would use the rules to pervert the law into a system of governance that would make King George giddy with possibilities do not. This blind spot has allowed our nation to sink to such a base level that it is very nearly fantasy to think that the tools of the legislator could bring back American justice and liberty. It is of the American that I am critical, for they have the �it can�t happen here� mind set coupled with a civility that is not due the opposition. The big unknown is: will the Patriot surrender to the Un-American? This, I must confess is my biggest concern. Where is the line beyond which an American will not be pushed? Will the crossing of that line produce a passionate, forceful and patriotic response, or that of someone cowed by a bully? If there is a Patriotic response, how many will answer the call of lady liberty? I see these two groups on a collision course. I don�t see them living together in harmony, and given the gulf between their respective philosophies, why should they? It is apparent to me that ultimately this will be a winner take all outcome in a contest that has no rules, and is not limited to the discourse of gentlemen. We are once again on the verge of an internal struggle for the security and preservation of our nation. Conflict Resolution 101 (our options) So given that a conflict is inevitable and guaranteed to escalate, how will we resolve our differences? Which is the most likely solution? Will we: present facts to alter someone's position? This tactic has produced very little results with the Un-American and Lazy groups. Gun owners are beginning to see the light, slowly. This option can�t succeed since the Un-American agenda will overtake this tactic. present logic buttressed with facts to alter their position? This tactic has produced similar results to the first. Discard this one too. Classify it under the category of too little too late. make emotional appeals to alter someone's position? This tactic also has produced similar results to the first for the Patriot, but is a favorite tool of the Un-American, and generally yields acceptable results. Patriots will lose here. Discard this one also. compel someone to a new position by legal means? This tactic has produced good results for the Un-American. Patriots don�t do this one very well since we tend to compromise our values all too often. Again the rate of attrition will make this an untenable option. We are well behind the power curve. Discard this one too. compel someone to a new position by means of economic benefit? This tactic has produced good results for the Un-American. Taxes on firearms, taxes on land we can�t use all serve to legitimize their agenda by hiding it in laws. Patriots don�t do this one very well since we don�t generally believe in taxes and compromise our values all too often anyway. Discard this one too. compel someone to a new position by means of force? This tactic has produced good results for the Un-American, particularly (and most notably) in the Ruby Ridge, Waco, and Gonzalez events. Since most of the persons directly involved were killed and the remainder are attacked with the full weight of the federal government, there is little chance of justice for an individual or small group. This is the fastest and most thorough method of bringing about change. The Un-American excels at this, the Patriot is still wrapped up in the rule of law which the current government conveniently ignores. Conclusion... I have read the posts of many brilliant people who are incredibly well informed, and who possess a commanding knowledge of history and the ugly side of human nature. I�ve been very satisfied with them, but as I look around I see that all of the brilliant arguments are wasted energy. Fully two-thirds of America is either unwilling to listen and understand or is incapable of same. The eloquent and fact-rich arguments are pearls before swine. Appeals to our American heritage are scorned. The reply consists of treasonous and unconstitutional laws and midnight raids on children and their parents. I�ve concluded that America will cease to exist within the very near future unless men and women of patriotic virtue stand up to the forces of evil. My belief is that unless this victory is overwhelming we will not have a second chance. My conviction is that unless we throw out ALL of the corruption we have no hope of seeing another 200 years as Americans. We are fighting an alien philosophy, a clear and present danger that threatens American shores. Our ability to combat that philosophy has been countered by the dishonesty of the free press and the schemes of the educational system. How will we remove 22,000 illegal gun laws? How will we eliminate the informal standing army of the BATF and their ilk? How will we bring the task of governance back into its constitutionally defined boundaries? How will we stop people from committing treason by giving away our military and corporate advantages to countries that are, or soon will be America�s enemy? How will we stop the dissemination of half truths and outright lies to our society, and in particular our children? How do we get people to begin to be sovereign citizens again? How do we stamp out the curse of victimhood, multi-cultural thinking, the lack of self-reliance, and the need to hide their heads in the sands of life? I believe our ONLY recourse is to relocate the enemy to foreign shores or dispatch them where they stand upon their refusal to leave. Short of that we fail, and America dies <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. 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