-Caveat Lector- Once again, if you have something to say about this, send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce H.G. Calder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Your Daily Info Has Arrived" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 4:02 AM Subject: TDI - Guns - 2001-01-11 > Bruce H.G. Calder's January 11, 2001 > THE-DAILY-INFO > > ***************************************************************** > Guns and gun control - Our little debate > ***************************************************************** > > * > * Well I received A LOT of messages from you. More than I can > * fairly go through in 2 days I'm afraid. I will try to read > * each any every one carefully over the next few days, but in the > * meantime, you might be interested in some of them. > * > * Only a handful of responses actually addressed the assertion > * put forward in the last THE DAILY INFO : > * Assertion : "Vermont's combination of plenty of guns and > * ========= few laws regulating them has resulted in a > * crime rate that is the third lowest in the > * nation." > * > * As expected, most of you who wrote generally oppose gun control > * and I found many of the arguments quite convincing. > * Unfortunately, most messages (on both sides of the argument) > * were lacking in objective facts, which to me limits their > * use. I certainly plan on trying to get to the bottom of some > * of them. > * > * In an attempt to explain why Vermont has a low crime rate > * in spite of (not because of) few gun regulations, a subscriber > * wrote : > * "Criminals are usually looking for the > * easy way out - out of responsibility, > * out of debt, out of relationships, etc. > * It's cold enough and rural enough that > * it's too hard to exist for a criminal." > * S.Davis > * > * I personally don't think this is a compelling argument as I'm > * sure the crime rate in Chicago is plenty high and their weather > * might even be worse than Vermont's. > * > * Another subscriber who is against gun control that limits > * ownership but in favor of gun regulation (licensing, tracking) > * disputes the assertion : > * > * "Vermont has a low crime rate because of > * lots of guns. This is a logical fallacy. > * To prove this, we would have to chart > * the crime rates in all states and cities, > * and compare it to gun ownership and > * regulations, and be able to show a > * positive correlation. Such a correlation > * does not exist. Why does Vermont have a > * low crime rate? Because anyone who has > * visited Vermont can tell you that the > * state has a disproportionately large > * number of nice people." Mark S. > * > * However Marshall H. agrees with the assertion : > * "Yes, Dr Lott has done extensive research > * to prove just that. Everywhere that CCL > * has been passed or allowed, crime rates > * have plummetted much faster than in non- > * carry areas. You can also add that in > * those places that PROSECUTIONS have > * become more stringent, crime rates have > * fallen. > * > * Marshall also tells me that the two states with lower > * crimes rates are (he thinks) North Dakota and Montana. > * He also says that Vermont punishes those with criminal > * records who are caught with a firearm more than other > * states, which of course complicates matters further. > * Are criminals avoiding Vermont because of the lack of > * gun control there, or because of better prosecution? > * > * One of the better letters dealing with gun ownership > * and crime came from B.Hoover > * > * "While living in Miami, FL during 1990-1992 > * I remember reading an interview conducted > * with inmates at the county jails. The > * article appeared in the Miami Herald, however > * I do not recall the exact date. The most > * pointed question, or answer, in that > * interview was given by a criminal serving time > * for armed "car-jacking". During that > * particular time "car-jacking" was a major > * problem, particularly in the area near the > * airport. As such, and as he stated in the > * article, he and his friends would wait for > * potential targets on the road leading from > * the airport to the nearest expressway. The > * first thing they did was check the license > * plates on the cars they considered taking. > * Those with Dade County license plates were > * allowed to pass by because (and I quote as > * closely as memory allows) "too many people > * in Dade County have carry permits and guns > * in their cars...why take a chance on getting > * shot when we can just wait for someone in a > * rental car or with out of county/state plates". > * > * Many wrote saying that the various shooting, Columbine for > * example, could have been prevented or minimized had more > * people had guns to defend themselves. I'm not sure how that > * would work in practice...would only the bad guys be shot? > * Would more guns make the situation more dangerous for > * everybody? These are not things which we can conduct > * scientific experiments on. > * > * Then of course I received the standard : > * > * "(More) people die from cars and bicycles > * than guns. I hate hate groups like you" > * > * I hope this person actually sees a difference in driving > * down the street and waving a loaded gun in a crowd. > * This argument was not used by anybody in the anti-gun- > * control camp who sent me a "thoughtful" reply. So I > * assume most of us can agree that this argument against > * gun control can be rejected. If cars and bicycles were > * designed primarily to kill, then we would probably be > * debating your right to drive. > * > * I will continue reading the responses I have received, > * and will receive and try to find some facts with which > * support or attack all of our (yes mine too) opinions. > * > * How am I doing so far? > > > _____ Unsubscribe instructions ________________________________ > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list please do the following : > If your email program is configured with the email address you > are subscribed under in the FROM portion of the messages you > send, you can send a message to ---> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Otherwise, you can use the online form at > http://www.calder.net/subscriptions/subscriptions.htm > and enter the address under which you are subscribed. > > You will receive a confirmation number (normally within two > hours) which must be returned (just click REPLY and then SEND) > to complete your removal. > _______________________________________________________________ > > > _____ Copyright notice ________________________________________ > > © 2000 Bruce H.G. Calder http://www.calder.net/ > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > You may forward this mailing in its entirety, or any individual > item as long as this copyright notice is included. > _______________________________________________________________ > <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 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