-Caveat Lector- <http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000114832908976&rtmo=lvHQkAnt&atmo=gggg g3JK&pg=/et/01/4/27/wclin27.html> Rich knew of pardon 'before US officials' By Philip Delves Broughton THE wife of Marc Rich, the billionaire fugitive controversially pardoned by President Clinton, has disclosed how she and her husband were told of the decision two hours before the Justice Department. Gisela Rich said they were telephoned at their home in Switzerland by the head of the Rich Foundation in Israel, Avnery Azulay. By hiring lawyers who had worked closely with Mr Clinton in the past, Mr Rich received special treatment from the White House, which completely by-passed normal Justice Department procedures. The pardon soured Mr Clinton's departure from the White House and is regarded with contempt even by once loyal Democrats. Mrs Rich's disclosure in an interview with the magazine Vanity Fair further clouds what is already a murky business. Despite Mr Clinton's denials, many suspect that the pardon was granted solely as a favour to Mr Rich's ex-wife, Denise, a friend of the Clintons and generous contributor to their various causes. She has given millions of pounds to the Clintons' political campaigns and to Mr Clinton's Presidential library. Past and present Israeli prime ministers had been lined up to lobby Mr Clinton for the pardon. In her first interview since the scandal, Denise Rich, who also spoke to Vanity Fair, gave few details about her ex-husband's pardon, which she urged Mr Clinton to grant on several occasions. However, she does say that the Clintons' decorator sent a list round to their friends, while they were still in the White House, asking for furniture and gifts for their new home in Chappaqua. Mrs Clinton's office previously denied the existence of such a list in an effort to play down the impression that the couple were trawling for gifts. Since the pardon scandal, Mrs Rich has not heard from her once great friends. Mrs Rich, who is worth more than £150 million from her marriage to Rich and now writes pop songs, says she was persuaded to help her ex-husband, from whom she had a bitter divorce, after their daughter Gabrielle died of Hodgkin's lymphoma in 1993. Rich was unable to see his daughter in America before she died without running the risk of spending the rest of his life in jail. However, her death persuaded Mrs Rich to move on and forgive her former husband. The current Mrs Rich, Gisela, tells the magazine that the pardon was not a quid pro quo for Denise Rich. She says: "She likes the Democrats and she contributed for years and years and years. And that has nothing to do with Marc." Mr Rich fled the United States in 1984 after he was charged with involvement in what investigators described as America's biggest tax fraud. He has since lived in Switzerland, having renounced his US citizenship. His multi-billion-dollar fortune was made in commodities trading. According to Vanity Fair, Mr Rich had been trying to buy a pardon long before Mr Clinton granted him one. Howard Safir, formerly the head of the US Marshals Service, said he attended a spy exchange in the late Eighties when an East German lawyer offered "$250 million on behalf of Marc Rich". Other sources claim that Adnan Kashoggi, the Saudi arms dealer, interceded with Mr Clinton on Rich's behalf. Despite all that has happened, Denise Rich insists that her friendship with the Clintons "went beyond" money. While denying rumours that she and the former President had an affair, she says he is "a very spiritual person". She explained: "He has so much charisma. Who wouldn't be attracted?" I am Larry O'Daniel, author of Missing in Action: Trail of Deceit - and Trails of Deceit. This subject, of course, is not about the books = I just wanted to introduce myself for the following. I have read with interest the accounts of the Kerrey story as portrayed in the NY Times, LA Times, Washington Post, and Washington Times today. I also watched the Kerrey interview "live" on real audio courtesy of the Post on line service. Something drastically is missing here. I am a veteran of the Phoenix Program (Go Cong and An Xuyen Provinces) in exactly the same time frame this story took place. Go Cong, as far as I can tell from the very undetailed maps on the NY Times Website, is just north of this operation. There are important facts missing from this rendition that I believe Kerrey does not want out. He is being shielded also by the liberal media in this way. A - He is described in various stories as being an "inexperienced" officer or combatant, having arrived in Vietnam only a month earlier. Truth - he joined the SEALs in 1966 according to the NYTIMES. That gives him almost 3 years or more on active duty - including SEAL Training and whatever else he did. I arrived in Vietnam in January 1969. Other than 7 years of ROTC training (3 HS and 4 College), I had a total of 5 months active duty - (Infantry Officer Basic - ROTC Summer Camp prior to commissioning - and Combat Intelligence Staff Officer Basic) before I was on the ground in Vietnam and assigned to the Phoenix Program. If he was "inexperienced" - I was a newbie baby - and I faced some of the same moral dilemmas he did and handled them competently, I believe. B - This is described as an operation against a VC District Level meeting in a free fire zone. He said he flew over the area 12 days or so before to make sure no civilians were there. The reality of this I will comment on in point by point as this is complex - to a degree 1. This had to be a Phoenix operation. We were the agency targeting the VCI at this time. (At this particular moment in 1969, I was just attending or just finishing the Phoenix Counterinsurgency School at Vung Tau). It would not be unprecedented for SEALs to lead an attack as described since local ARVN forces were probably scarce. Various forces were sent on Phoenix missions as needed. In my District, we used our own local forces, both Police paramilitary and ARVN regular forces to do our operations. 2. With the SEAL force described, I find it difficult to believe the low intensity of battle described. The level VC political figure targeted - the nature of the area being infiltrated by the SEALs - dictated that the VC forces guarding the target/ target meeting was a minimum VC Regular Force Platoon to a VC local force company. Of course, once the first shots were fired - and the Seals were discovered - the target/targets was out the door with his own personal bodyguard with him and the forces providing security. If this meeting was with any higher level personnel VCI, there could have been as many as another platoon of "commandos" and bodyguards present. 3. The reconnaissance by air described by Kerrey was useless as far as intelligence of what was there on that night. A status of a village cannot be determined by air alone. By the time the operation came around, 12 days later, it was "stale - in need of updating." I know - I flew air recon missions over areas less hostile and just as hostile during my tour. You had to go on the ground to make sure that no civilians were present. I flew over free fire zones and personally gave the orders to fire at targets on the ground - and crossed my fingers hoping I remembered the borders correctly, had the proper intelligence that the "friendlies" had left, hoping the pilots plotted our location correctly, etc. This was a weighty decision to make on the spot for a 22 year old 2 LT. 4. I believe that Kerry does not want to be associated in any way with Phoenix - for obvious reasons as a liberal Democrat. His supporters on that spectrum would drum him the way they drummed a friend of mine - Tom Pauken - 20 years ago during his confirmation hearings to head of ACTION - and it turned out he was not even in the program (We still joke over him taking the blame for my "misdeeds" - We sat next to each other for 7 weeks at Ft. Holabird and have been in contact off and on for the past 33 years. He is the former Chairman of the Texas Republican Party as I am the former Chairman of the La Paz County Republican Party) 5. The facts - all of them have to be brought out - and tough questions asked and answered - which they have not to this day. I am tired of taking the blame - as a known and proud veteran of the Phoenix program - for atrocities - real or imagined - that I would have been court- martialed for had I commited them. I can sleep soundly at night over what I did or did not do in Vietnam. I did not assassinate - kill indiscriminately - or torture VCI suspects. I did not kill women or children. I have an application in for an OSD appointment (even if slim chances exist I get picked) in Special Operations - and I would have to answer questions about my Phoenix experience - prominently listed in my resume - that would get tougher than anything Kerrey has faced to date on this incident. I expect a sitting (or former sitting Senator) politician aspiring to the White House to do the same. 6. If some of the activities described actually happened - the civilians rounded up and shot - this is a war crime - in my view. They were no hinderance to getting out - The VC already knew they were there - from the shots fired 15 minutes or so earlier - and the SEALS should have been out or getting ready to go at that time. I can be contacted - if wanted by you - at below - and I will answer any questions - no dodging hard ones - This needs to be investigated - not swept under the rug like Kerry (MA) and McCain (AZ) want it to go away. Operations like this - alleged atrocities - were not part of the everyday common story (as alleged by Kerry of MA) that I lived and worked in - a veteran of the so called alleged "assassination bureau" of Phoenix. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.goldencoastpublishing.com 520-859-4128 (office and fax) 520-859-3819 work and 24 hour contact number [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am Larry O'Daniel, author of Missing in Action: Trail of Deceit - and Trails of Deceit. This subject, of course, is not about the books = I just wanted to introduce myself for the following. I have read with interest the accounts of the Kerrey story as portrayed in the NY Times, LA Times, Washington Post, and Washington Times today. I also watched the Kerrey interview "live" on real audio courtesy of the Post on line service. Something drastically is missing here. I am a veteran of the Phoenix Program (Go Cong and An Xuyen Provinces) in exactly the same time frame this story took place. Go Cong, as far as I can tell from the very undetailed maps on the NY Times Website, is just north of this operation. There are important facts missing from this rendition that I believe Kerrey does not want out. He is being shielded also by the liberal media in this way. A - He is described in various stories as being an "inexperienced" officer or combatant, having arrived in Vietnam only a month earlier. Truth - he joined the SEALs in 1966 according to the NYTIMES. That gives him almost 3 years or more on active duty - including SEAL Training and whatever else he did. I arrived in Vietnam in January 1969. Other than 7 years of ROTC training (3 HS and 4 College), I had a total of 5 months active duty - (Infantry Officer Basic - ROTC Summer Camp prior to commissioning - and Combat Intelligence Staff Officer Basic) before I was on the ground in Vietnam and assigned to the Phoenix Program. If he was "inexperienced" - I was a newbie baby - and I faced some of the same moral dilemmas he did and handled them competently, I believe. B - This is described as an operation against a VC District Level meeting in a free fire zone. He said he flew over the area 12 days or so before to make sure no civilians were there. The reality of this I will comment on in point by point as this is complex - to a degree 1. This had to be a Phoenix operation. We were the agency targeting the VCI at this time. (At this particular moment in 1969, I was just attending or just finishing the Phoenix Counterinsurgency School at Vung Tau). It would not be unprecedented for SEALs to lead an attack as described since local ARVN forces were probably scarce. Various forces were sent on Phoenix missions as needed. In my District, we used our own local forces, both Police paramilitary and ARVN regular forces to do our operations. 2. With the SEAL force described, I find it difficult to believe the low intensity of battle described. The level VC political figure targeted - the nature of the area being infiltrated by the SEALs - dictated that the VC forces guarding the target/ target meeting was a minimum VC Regular Force Platoon to a VC local force company. Of course, once the first shots were fired - and the Seals were discovered - the target/targets was out the door with his own personal bodyguard with him and the forces providing security. If this meeting was with any higher level personnel VCI, there could have been as many as another platoon of "commandos" and bodyguards present. 3. The reconnaissance by air described by Kerrey was useless as far as intelligence of what was there on that night. A status of a village cannot be determined by air alone. By the time the operation came around, 12 days later, it was "stale - in need of updating." I know - I flew air recon missions over areas less hostile and just as hostile during my tour. You had to go on the ground to make sure that no civilians were present. I flew over free fire zones and personally gave the orders to fire at targets on the ground - and crossed my fingers hoping I remembered the borders correctly, had the proper intelligence that the "friendlies" had left, hoping the pilots plotted our location correctly, etc. This was a weighty decision to make on the spot for a 22 year old 2 LT. 4. I believe that Kerry does not want to be associated in any way with Phoenix - for obvious reasons as a liberal Democrat. His supporters on that spectrum would drum him the way they drummed a friend of mine - Tom Pauken - 20 years ago during his confirmation hearings to head of ACTION - and it turned out he was not even in the program (We still joke over him taking the blame for my "misdeeds" - We sat next to each other for 7 weeks at Ft. Holabird and have been in contact off and on for the past 33 years. He is the former Chairman of the Texas Republican Party as I am the former Chairman of the La Paz County Republican Party) 5. The facts - all of them have to be brought out - and tough questions asked and answered - which they have not to this day. I am tired of taking the blame - as a known and proud veteran of the Phoenix program - for atrocities - real or imagined - that I would have been court- martialed for had I commited them. I can sleep soundly at night over what I did or did not do in Vietnam. I did not assassinate - kill indiscriminately - or torture VCI suspects. I did not kill women or children. I have an application in for an OSD appointment (even if slim chances exist I get picked) in Special Operations - and I would have to answer questions about my Phoenix experience - prominently listed in my resume - that would get tougher than anything Kerrey has faced to date on this incident. I expect a sitting (or former sitting Senator) politician aspiring to the White House to do the same. 6. If some of the activities described actually happened - the civilians rounded up and shot - this is a war crime - in my view. They were no hinderance to getting out - The VC already knew they were there - from the shots fired 15 minutes or so earlier - and the SEALS should have been out or getting ready to go at that time. I can be contacted - if wanted by you - at below - and I will answer any questions - no dodging hard ones - This needs to be investigated - not swept under the rug like Kerry (MA) and McCain (AZ) want it to go away. Operations like this - alleged atrocities - were not part of the everyday common story (as alleged by Kerry of MA) that I lived and worked in - a veteran of the so called alleged "assassination bureau" of Phoenix. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.goldencoastpublishing.com 520-859-4128 (office and fax) 520-859-3819 work and 24 hour contact number [EMAIL PROTECTED] ================================================================= Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT FROM THE DESK OF: *Michael Spitzer* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends ================================================================= <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. 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