-Caveat Lector- Also see this editorial: http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1963-2001Jun29.html THOUGH STILL publicly wavering on whether to support funding for stem cell research, the Bush administration has begun wading into the tangle of issues that accompany the new reproductive technologies. A health official testifying before Congress last month signaled the administration's support for a bill to ban all human cloning. [...] --- Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 10:00:55 -0700 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Banned Research and Raids on "Secret Labs" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Here's an item about the Feds banning certain types of biological research. More evidence that government is flexing its muscles to interfere in research it has decided is not acceptable...or that it is not controlling for its own purposes. I wonder what Thomas Jefferson, a noted amateur scientist, would have thought of the federal government raiding labs and subpoening records when it decided it wanted to? His cryptography research, for example? So much for the real spirit of the First and Fourth, amongst others. (Note: I realize, for you lawyers, that the Fourth was technically met, in that a valid court order was issued for the subpoenas and raids. It still sucks, though, to use a nonlegal term. Warrants and orders are issued freely. Fishing expeditions is what they really are. There's not a single one of us who could not have our possessions and papers sifted through if one of tens of thousands of prosecutors and investigators decided they wanted to. So much for "secure in one's papers and possessions" and "a man's home is his castle.") I'll include a few paragraphs, marked with << >> enclosers. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/010709/usnews/clone.htm <<U.S.News 7/9/01 The God game no more The feds crack down on a human cloning lab By Nell Boyce and David E. Kaplan For Brigitte Boisselier, cloning a human being isn't just good science -it's a religious imperative. As a trained chemist and a bishop of a sect that believes scientists from another planet created all life on Earth, Boisselier and other followers of the "Raelian" religion say cloning is key to humanity's future. Despite warnings from scientists who say such practices are fraught with potential health risks, some Raelians have built a secret U.S. laboratory and vowed to create the first human clone this year. They also believe the feds have no legal right to stop them. Washington, unsurprisingly, disagrees. U.S. News has learned that a federal grand jury in Syracuse, N.Y., near Boisselier's home, has subpoenaed telephone records and other documents in what appears to be an unprecedented probe into the sect's activities. Food and Drug Administration agents visited the lab recently and ordered any human cloning experiments to cease. Says one official: "There's a timeout in force." >> Comment: So, someone who _says_ they are interesting in human cloning can face a subpoenaing of records and documents. Interesting. So much for free scientific inquiry. And what's the significance of the "secret lab" language? Was it just the "U.S. News" reporter's take on the situation, or does having a "secret lab" enter into the gubment's case? How long before we see _crypto_ treated the same way? For example: "For Joe Cypherpunk, developing digital money isn't just good science, it's an imperative. Not surprising, Washington disagrees. A federal grand jury in Sunnyvale, CA has subpoenaed telephone records and other documents. FCC, SEC, and FBI agents visited the secret lab recently and ordered any digital money experiments to cease. Says one official: "There's a timeout in force."" (Oh, so now we have "timeouts" for banned research? So much for another of the rights enumerated in the BOR, the right to a trial. Yeah, I know about temporary injunctions and restraining orders, given exigent circumstances, blah blah. This sounds more like the harassment and road block issue, though. A "crackdown," as the reporter notes below.) << The crackdown marks the first time that investigators have uncovered a secret lab tied to human cloning in the United States, government sources say. >> Oooh, scary! A "secret lab"! What, all labs are supposed to be public, registering with the government? (There is no evidence the lab is using more dangerous chemicals than are normally found in any hardware store, for example, so "public safety" cannot be a justification.) The article goes on to talk about Clonaid and how they are not violating any laws, but how they plan to leave the U.S. to avoid this kind of "raid" harassment. << The federal investigation was prompted by statements Boisselier made this spring, when she said Clonaid was just weeks away from being ready to clone a human being. On March 27, Boisselier received a letter from the FDA, warning that the company might be in violation of FDA regulations. A similar letter was hand-delivered to the office of Panayiotis Zavos, a fertility expert from Lexington, Ky., who also says he plans to clone a human.>> Yeah, and if I "claim" that I am "just weeks away" from being ready to release a digital money system, can I expect a raid? Is there no consideration of common sense, or are prosecutors just flunkouts in science who can't separate speech acts from actual violations of the law? I can see there may be public safety issues in cases where, for example, a credible group--leave the definition of credible aside for now--makes a claim that they are weeks away from completing their own privately-funded atomic bomb, for example. Or weeks away from completing a batch of nerve gas. Some variants of libertarians and anarchists would disagree even with this, but at least the point is arguable. The issue of whether human cloning research is so intrinsically sensitive or dangerous that it requires preemptive raids and fishing expeditions is a topic worth discussing. For now, I'm pointing out some of the disturbing constitutional issues. << UFOs. But it was the Raelians who really got the FDA's attention. For months, Boisselier has told reporters that she has three scientists and a physician trying to resurrect an 11-month-old infant-the deceased son of a former state legislator, whom the Raelians refuse to identify-through genetic regeneration. >> Again, science flunkouts are running the investigations. << Clearly, the agency is trying to flex its regulatory muscle and show Congress that it hasn't been asleep at the switch. FDA investigators have been knocking on the doors of people like Richard Seed, a Chicago physicist who made headlines three years ago when he announced his intention to clone a human. "I think their purpose was to frighten me, and they did," says Seed. >> Yep. So much for the rule of law, and of valid laws. Consistent with crypto actions, as when NSA agents told Jim Bidzos that if he didn't play ball and adopt Big Brother's plans, they could just have him run over in his parking lot. (Threats like this, which are credible and violent threats, are not prosecuted. Meanwhile, Keith Henson faces a year in prison for a joking remark about a "Tom Cruise Missile" aimed at a Scientology compound. Some country we live in, eh?) << ... Alex Capron, professor of law and medicine at the University of Southern California told Congress last month. Capron points out that the FDA is charged with regulating safety concerns only. >> Indeed, and banning research or raiding "secret labs"--especially those with access to classified UFO data from the Greys living in Area 51!--is NOT a function of a regulatory agency devoted to the efficacy and safety of drugs and foodstuffs. << Even if a law were passed in the United States, it could prove difficult to enforce because cloning operations are easy to hide. Zavos, for example, says he knows of at least two other groups quietly trying to clone a human. Would-be cloners need only basic lab equipment. "It's not like it's a magical, secret thing," says Mark Westhusin of Texas A&M University, who works on cloning animals. A ban may also simply encourage scientists to pursue their work abroad, as Boisselier plans to. Zavos says his team has already set up two clandestine labs overseas. >> Yep. All predictable trends. Blacknet has had an active human cloning special interest section for several years. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May [EMAIL PROTECTED] Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. 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