-Caveat Lector- Well, J2, if the complaint is the beatification of Pius, then they should say so instead of claiming that this Pope is hiding things. Please keep in mind that JPII IS POLISH himself and see the link below about how EVERY Polish Catholic Priest along with 3 million other Poles were sent to Death Camps. See link below for info on Poles sent to death camps. And yes, you do so know one Catholic that knows this. And I know many others. We are talking about millions of people here and there are some Jewish people also implicated in various things, too. It is all very complex. And a Catholic is automatically excommunicated if they do certain things. No one has to tell them and no formal declaration is required unless they protest it. I have never checked specifically but believe mass murder of millions might be listed above something like, say, divorce. I do not, nor do you, know the details of who did what and why and so do not care to speculate on who gave what and did what. I find a Polish Pope highly unlikely to be hiding things to protect the Nazis. Maybe he has access to things that exonerate Pius or explain some of his actions. But I think it is a dreadful thing to accuse a Polish Pope of somehow being implicated in or condoning the Holocaust. But by your own rules of Jews only caring about other Jews, ditto Gypsies, etc. then Catholics should not be helping the Jews at all in any way. That, fortunately, is not how most people feel. I am as outraged about the death of Jewish people and Gypsies as I am about Catholics. So by your standards, if they wanna see the papers, they oughta be nice to the Pope for why should he even care about the Jewish people who died. I think he does, however, did not expect to be attacked. ~Amelia~ Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 9:22 PM Subject: BURNING QUESTIONS, a documentary about an American woman retracingher Polish Catholic father's s http://hometown.aol.com/polishfilm/burningquestions.html Amelia wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > No, J2, they were NOT all Poles and Slavs. But then no one counts > except the Jews who were killed, at least not for much to some. > And that may be YOUR 'real' question but it does not address what > is being done right NOW concerning this DEMAND for records and the > CURRENT smear campaign. Are you stating that this is justified as > some sort of vengeance? Then why was this undertaken with the EVIL > Vatican in the first place? > > I have read everything that you have stated many times before but > not even YOUR stating it makes me 'know' it. Amelia, I can prove everything I stated. But I don't want to deal with this right now because there are more important things happening. > I do think there is > some truth in what you say happened but as for your wild > accusations that Hitler was a Catholic, etc. that is your opinion > only and really not possible. He may have been reared a Catholic > but that does not mean me was one until his death for there are > conditions involved which you choose to ignore. He often bragged about his Catholic upbringing and how much it influenced his greatness. > I believe mass > killings would be sufficient to get one excommunicated. But he WASN'T excommunicated was he? Ever. How come? > That means > one is no longer a Catholic, doesn't it? I also do not think Hitler > was under the control of the Pope at the time, either. Hitler was never under the control of the Pope. No one said he was. > Are you > suggesting that he was? Or that the Pope had powers grater than all > the Allied forces? The Pope contributed Vatican moneys to Hitler and the Nazi Party. These are the records the Vatican doesn't want anyone to see. Among others. > That he could have some how stopped it all but > refused because he was 'in on it' and approved? As for your > 'revenge' philosophy, remember not all religions are centered > around that principle. It is well known that the Vatican was > involved in various people escaping Germany after WWII. What is to > hide? It is NOT well known. I don't know any Catholics who are aware of it. > Is this information the REAL reason for the Jewish > participation in this project? To find out any details on what may > have been done to any Jews and Jews only? I don't know. But even if that's true, so what? > Your comments demonstrate perfectly the one-sided perception of the > problem. It was to have been a JOINT effort directed at the crimes > committed against BOTH Catholics and Jews and others. Nothing was > being 'hidden' and I think, unlike you, that the deaths of > Catholics and many others were just as much a crime as the deaths > of Jews. Of course it is. No one says differently. Jews are interested in the Jewish part of this history. Gypsies are interested in the Gypsy part of this history. Serbs are interested in the Serbian parts of this history. This doesn't mean that the rest don't count. > The Vatican does not have to share anything and I > certainly hope that they will not until all life lost in the > Holocaust is shown equal respect. It doesn't matter what excuse you make for them not releasing the letters. They'll never do it. They can't. > It is the current Pope and not > Pius under attack. One Pope is as good as another to blame, eh? > ~Amelia~ HEY BABY. THIS POPE WANTS TO MAKE A SAINT OUT OF PIUS XII THE NAZI POPE. Do you think that anyone who suffered at the hands of the Nazis is going to let the Vatican get away with beatifying Pius12? What a stupid thing to do. His actions are still in the living memory of millions of people. There are documentary records all over the place. There are living witnesses who worked in the Vatican at the time and have gone public. This wouldn't be so important if the Vatican was just trying to cover up their crimes. BUT THEY WANT TO MAKE A SAINT OUT OF HIM. This is one of the dumbest moves they ever made. They should have waited for a few more hundred years like they did for Joan of Arc. J2 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nurev Ind." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:13 PM > <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance�not soap-boxing�please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'�with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds�is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 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