-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Linda Minor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, September 13, 2001 8:37 PM
Subject: Political destabilization
>See attached transcripts or radio interviews. Regards, Brian
>
>
>
>
September 13,2001
Note: To hear LaRouche's September 11 morning
interview, go to <www.larouchepub.com>
LAROUCHE: "THIS IS A COVERT STRATEGIC OPERATION AGAINST THE U.S."
- LYNDON LAROUCHE INTERVIEWED ON WGIR-AM RADIO, NEW HAMPSHIRE -
- Sept. 12, 2001 -
WOODY WOODLAND, HOST: Now, we were scheduled to have Lyndon
LaRouche, long-time Presdential candidate, on with us today, to
talk economics, but we're going to talk something else. Mr.
LaRouche, thanks for being with us for a few minutes here.
LAROUCHE: Good to be with you.
WOODLAND: Tell me: You are a man who has travelled over the
entire world, and spent lots of time overseas. What can you tell
us about the possible people behind this terrorism activity?
We're all hearing this Osama bin Laden, I think, mostly because
we don't know any other names. What do you think about this?
LAROUCHE: That's right. This is not a terrorist operation.
This is a covert, strategic, special-operations operation, which
has characteristic similiarities to the militia operation against
the Oklahoma City center some years ago.
WOODLAND: Are you saying that this might have been some
people within our own country?
LAROUCHE: In part, it had to be people within our own
country. Look at some of the facts of the matter: I got on this
case, of course, just about quarter after nine, yesterday
morning, when I was on with Jack Stockwell....
WOODLAND: Out in Salt Lake City, right?
LAROUCHE: Right. And we put this on the website, so people
can see exactly, more or less, a transcription-degree of
accuracy, what Jack and I discussed, with others.
WOODLAND: What is that website?
LAROUCHE: That is, my website is, we put it on
larouchepub.com, that is [spells it]; I think it has also gone on
my campaign website, and, if it has not gone there yet, it will
be there soon.
WOODLAND: Okay.
LAROUCHE: So, we had this discussion, and I must say, that
looking back on it, a little more than a day later, that I didn't
say anything wrong, I didn't get anything wrong. I was taken by
surprise, in a sense, but not surprised by the fact of this, nor
was I surprised by the fact that it was primarily a domestic,
covert, special operation, by people with very high-grade
military special-operations backgrounds. It could not have
happened otherwise.
WOODLAND: Now, what would be the goal of such people, if
that's the case, as opposed to Mideastern terrorists?
LAROUCHE: To create a simulated Pearl Harbor effect to get
the United States to go to war against nations in the Middle
East.
WOODLAND: Well, my judgment is, I think this was an act of
war against the United States by somebody, but it doesn't seem to
be by a specific nation. I mean, there may be some nations -- if
it is Mideastern terrorists, there may be some nations that have
sheltered these folks....
LAROUCHE: No....
WOODLAND: You don't believe that.
LAROUCHE: Take Osama bin Laden: [He] was created by the
U.S., British, and Israeli intelligence services, as a part of
the so-called Afghan operations. He still is a controlled asset
of those interests, which are largely buried in the special
covert operations section. Now, of course, obviously, our
military, top military, had nothing to do with this. But there
are people who are "off the reservation," as we saw reflected
in the Oklahoma City bombing, and there are people off the
reservations who are used, who are deniable....
WOODLAND: Well now, who are the people though, that would,
I mean, are you saying these people are domestic terrorists in
the United States?
LAROUCHE: No, they're not terrorists. These are not
terrorists. They may terrify people, but they are not terrorists.
That is, the idea that this is an international terrorist
operation, is utter nonsense, and it's very dangerous to go
looking for the wrong adversary, and ignore the right one. The
point is, there are certain people, very powerful people, behind
the scenes in various governments: the British government, the
U.S. government, the Israeli government -- not Sharon, I don't
think Sharon would have had anything to do with this -- but, who
are determined to have the United States take the nature of the
conflict between certain people in Israel and the surrounding
neighbors, and use that to involve the United States in a
geopolitical conflict in the Middle East. And some of the
reaction of the suckers, including the President of the United
States, who doesn't really know too much, who was pushed in that
direction yesterday.
WOODLAND: So, you're not buying the conventional wisdom
here, as to this being Osama bin Laden, or anyone else?
LAROUCHE: I doubt that there's any wisdom behind the people
who think so. I think the point is, anybody who understands --
Look, there were certain features of these developments
yesterday, which immediately attracted all of our attention. I
had over the, since then, since yesterday morning, I've been
reaching out to old, high-level military and intelligence people
around the world, including Russia, as well as Western Europe and
elsewhere, and we put together, from the U.S. side, and from
these areas, a very good cross-check picture of what happened. It
could not happen -- Look, the United States could not have done
that to the Soviet Union during the high point of the conflict of
the Cold War. We didn't have the capability to do to the Soviet
Union {then}, what was done to us yesterday.
WOODLAND: I'm sorry we have to run, but I appreciate
hearing from you. Maybe we'll talk at a longer time soon. So,
thank you, sir.
LAROUCHE: Okay, good.
WOODLAND: All right. That's Lyndon LaRouche. That's a
different view, but he usually does.
-30-30-30-
LYNDON H. LAROUCHE INTERVIEW WITH CFRB RADIO, TORONTO, 9/12.
(Tape begins in mid-sentence)
LaRouche (mid-sentence): -- and contacts I have around the
world, as well as in the United States. You know, years ago, I
was on anti-terrorism activities, and the SDI, and similar
things. So I have a lot of old friends who are very well-placed,
and very good judgment.
What the picture that has come through, is this, is that
what happened to the United States yesterday, was not an act of
terrorism in the conventional sense of terrorism, but was a
covert strategic operation, with a strategic purpose, which was
principally based, as a statement by John Ashcroft, the Attorney
General, has tended to confirm, by personnel inside the United
States.
In other words, we're looking at something which has some
aspects of the Oklahoma City bombing some years ago. That there
were people inside the United States, including people who were
willing to go to suicide, who were willing to fly planes in the
way they flew them, with a high degree of military skill. You
don't pick this up by practicing with Lear jets in a private
airport.
And the thing was done very meticulously, very precisely.
Four planes were involved. There's an indicated targetting of
the White House, which has been referred to. My information
coincides with that, that the Pentagon blow was originally aimed
at the White House.
So, what we have here, is somebody is playing strategic
games with this so-called special warfare, special operations
capabilities, which uses primarily U.S. nationals, but may have
international collaboration and various kinds of sheep-dipping.
So, this is -- and furthermore, when I go through the whole
list of things that happened, as I said earlier today, what
happened to the United States yesterday, is something that the
United States, with all its power, could not have done to the
Soviet Union during the period of the Cold War.
So there's no little country off there in East Podunk, which
has done this. The responsibility lies with a very capable
machine inside the United States itself. There might be other
factors, but that's the thing we have to worry about.
And this is not necessarily the end of the problem.
Oakley: Let's work backwards, then, as they do -- again,
criminal investigations always wonder, well, who benefits? Who's
got the motive and the methodology or the resources to pull this
off? If we were to work from that perspective, whose bidding
could this possibly have been, and to what end?
LaRouche: Well, you get in a situation, in history, when
you have major crises, or you're on the edge of a war -- major
financial crises, a financial breakdown crisis, where people with
great power, or some of them, lose their nerve. And they get the
idea of setting up a dictatorship.
Now, we had a case of that in Germany in 1933, where Hermann
Goering used a dupe, this von der Lubbe (phonetic), to set fire
to the Reichstag. And Goering and company moved on the basis of
the burning of the Reichstag, to set up a dictatorship
immediately under Hitler. And Hitler was not nominally in a
secure position at that point.
So, when you get to a point of crisis, you have to watch out
that somebody will pull a coup, or start a conflict, or something
else, as a power manipulatoin.
Now the international financial system right now, is in the
process of collapse, and this is what all this stuff means.
There are solutions. But some people, rather than consider the
solutions, would rather take desperate actions. And they have
to be very powerful people to do something like this.
In other words, you can have a rogue operation, operating
inside countries or across national borders. But to pull
something like this, this is not something that could be pulled
by some small country.
This is something -- you'd have to say almost, you'd have to
tap into some of the most sophisticated GPS and other
capabilities of the United States to do what happened yesterday.
Oakley: So, there are agents perhaps acting at the
interests that are not necessarily of a sovereign state, or an
identifiable terrorist organization, who have manipulated or
perpetrated these acts yesterday. Is this what you're
suggesting, even based on American soil?
LaRouche: Absolutely. With this -- this is what's called a
coup d'etat in some countries.
Oakley: Now, a coup d'etat, not for political purposes, if
I'm understanding you. You see this as a de facto attack on
capitalism, then.
LaRouche: No, I don't think so. No, because we're trying
to save the system. The people -- the thing that's closest to
this -- most motivation -- of this particular operation, is
something that was scheduled to occur in Washington at the end of
this month, which is this planned riot, which started in Seattle,
went by way of a conference in Porto Alegre, Brazil, and then
turned up in Genoa. Really violent.
And something much more serious was being built up around
Washington, D.C. over the past two months. We've tracked some of
it. We've seen some of it. It's really deadly.
So that there is a -- from people associated, who are behind
the use of these groups, and they're big -- is an actual
terrorist-type capability, which is aimed at pulling a coup, a
global coup.
So you have some global interests, like the famous James
Bond kinds of things. Somebody's got this kind of idea of making
a coup.
Oakley: Well, Lyndon LaRouche is our guest on the line from
Leesburg, Virginia. The publisher of the Executive Intelligence
Review. Would you care to speculate or name names? I mean, when
you talk about groups that are big, it's obviously then just not
some disaffected Middle Eastern cell. You're talking about maybe
a quasi-type governmental agency here.
LaRouche: Absolutely. We've created these things. We've
created it in the Iran-Contra operation. We've created it in
other ways.
Now, look. Take the case of the Oklahoma City bombing. What
do you have? You have a thing which comes under the headline of
"militia." Now, militia is a broad category of organization.
But you have people in the military, young fanatics who
probably think like SS Hitler people. They think they're on a
mission. And they're willing to die to carry out the mission --
suicide.
So, you don't have to go to the Middle East to get a suicide
bomber. We had them, in fact, in the case of Oklahoma. We never
got to the bottom of that. People rushed to close the thing off
and clean the mess up. Make a blanket statement. But they never
got into the fact that that operation in Oklahoma City could not
have been pulled off by one or two men.
Oakley: Right. Maybe the best evidence, sir, of what this
-- or who's behind this, and what their motives are, are still to
be seen in the aftermath, and how things transpire from here.
LaRouche: Well, what I've done, is first of all, insist, as
I did yesterday, and again today, the first thing is don't panic.
Don't go into flight forward. Don't go out and threaten to kill
everybody. Don't say I'm going to bomb somebody tomorrow.
Government has to show restraint, like a commander in the
worst situation of warfare.
Oakley: I'm going to ask you about your response had you
been President, and how we guard against any such further attacks
or future attacks. And if you're up to it as well, take some
calls. There's people chomping at the bit to have their say as
well. Are you good for that?
LaRouche: Good for that.
Oakley: Lyndon LaRouche with us on the line from Leesburg,
Virginia, the publisher of the Executive Intelligence Review.
We'll come back. He's saying some rather provocative things.
(Break)
Oakley: Welcome back. The John Oakley Show continues with
the aftermath of the horrific attack on America yesterday. Our
guest on the line from Leesburg, Virginia, is the publisher of
the Executive Intelligence Review, and a Democratic Presidential
candidate several times over, Lyndon LaRouche, a name known to
many amidst of course controversial standing in the eyes of some.
We're talking about what this all means, how to sort of
disseminate the information. I notice that of course the likes
of Osama bin Laden has been demonized, certain states. It seems
almost like textbook staging. There's a consensus here, the
public spoiling for a fight.
Is that all sort of a canard, a smokescreen, maybe a red
herring? And you're saying, you know, look elsewhere, there may
be bigger fish to fry.
LaRouche: Well, Osama bin Laden, by no stretch of the
imagination, has any of the capabilities to do or to organize
anything like what happened yesterday. So therefore, he also --
he was a creation of the Anglo-American-Israeli operations, which
we came to know in the United States as Iran-Contra at a certain
point.
So, he is their creation. He's still kept in place. They
curse him. They may kill him some day. But he's still there.
And they do have a lot of controls over him. He's not capable of
doing that.
Oakley: Are we talking about somebody then to point the
finger where you are, akin to a military-industrial complex, or a
powerful economic interests?
LaRouche: Powerful probably international interests. But
basically, this thing was done very sensitive. So most of the
people who were collaborating in setting it up, didn't know what
they were involved in.
If you started to track this thing, you'll get false trails
all over the place. Because the people who did this -- look,
they really knew what they were doing. They were using the GPS
in a military fashion, not in a way that the average person can
get at it. They were running very sophisticated operations.
The training of the guys who were willing to commit suicide
as pilots, who took over these planes -- this was a very
sophisticated operation.
How do you get a highly skilled, highly trained pilot to
train to kill himself as a suicide bomber from among an American
population? Remember, this guy had to go through security
screens, which may not have been perfect in places like Boston
and elsewhere.
And what they pulled off, as an immediate, coordinated
takeover of an aircraft after it had taken off, indicates they
were able to get through all the screens just like that, probably
with things like plastic knives. I mean, those kinds of fellows
who have that kind of training.
Take over the thing, kill the pilot, sit in the pilot's
seat, and take over. And run the whole operation, which involved
some very JTURN (ph) kinds of operations, especially when it came
to the Twin Towers in New York. That was a very tricky
operation.
Oakley: And not coincidentally, just within the half-hour,
the U.S. Attoreny General, John Ashcroft, did admit that these
pilots had been trained domestically, in America.
Let's take a call or two with Lyndon LaRouche, our guest
from Leesburg, Virginia. Kevin, you're on CFRB. What do you
make of this?
Q: Well, I was listening very intently. Everybody likes a
good conspiracy. Until I started to look at some of the comments,
like GPS -- I mean, I know for example that I can go to Radio
Shack and buy a GPS receiver. I can go to an airport, I can
punch an away point. I can go to another location, punch
an away point.
While I'm in the airplane, I can punch in a button that will
take me right back to that location that I programmed. What is
so difficult that these people did, that someone armed with an
aircraft schedule, a flight schedule, with common sense -- when I
want to blow something up, I want to have enough fuel in it to do
the job.
Why -- I just don't see where any substance has been put to
this argument, (inaudible) realities.
LaRouche: First of all, to use the GPS the way it was used,
you can't do it by going to --
Q: Well, how was it used?
LaRouche, Well, a military system was put in to prevent
people from doing just exactly that.
Q: I use the GPS all the time. I use a GPS every week when
I go --
LaRouche: You don't get a kind of GPS information which
does exist in the system, which you couldn't --
Q: The GPS is a programmable compass. I can tell a GPS that
I want to go --
LaRouche: You're misinformed. You can't do that any more.
You could do that when the thing was first put in, but you can't
do it any more.
Q: I'm sorry, sir, but you're wrong. And you're un-credible
in my eyes.
LaRouche: Fine. That's your problem.
Oakley: Let's continue on with calls, questions, and/or
comments concerning what Mr. LaRouche has said. If you are the
President, what would your response be at the time or how to
forestall this, you know, from happening ever again?
LaRouche: I think the best thing is what I did yesterday. I
was on this radio show with Salt Lake City. And the question
came up, and I said what I would do. I said, the first thing, of
course, is don't panic. No flight forward. No wild screaming,
no threats, no nothiing.
The first thing you have to do is realize that the
population of the world, and especially the United States, is in
a state of denial. They're in a state of denial about the
financial crisis, they're in a state of fear.
Now, you don't take a population which is in a state of
fear, like people in a crowded theater that's got a fire started,
you don't scream and say, "Panic!" What you do, is say,
"Let's march slowly to the door, get out of here in good order.'
Now, that's the first thing you have to do. Now, I know a
lot about this. And I would have immediately said, as I said
then, the president should not declare martial law. The
President should immediately, quietly but effectively do certain
things in terms of security, beefing up security, take certain
precautions, and go in certain directions.
But don't run to the door. The first thing you have to do
in a crisis, is act like a commanding general whose forces have
suddenly been hit by a surprise attack. Don't lose your nerve.
Take the actions calmly, and lead people, with confidence, into a
significant plan of action.
Oakley: Is it your feeling, Mr. LaRouche, that this is a
manufactured crisis, so that the cure that would be effected
stands to somebody's benefit?
LaRouche: Absolutely. Somebody who wants a war in the
Middle East, wants the United States to go into the Middle East
and start pounding the Middle East and other places.
Because the effect of doing that, the way it's programmed
now, would be to unleash what Brzezinski and his friend
Huntington have proposed as a geopolitical clash of
civilizations.
That is, to start a chain-reaction fire of violence
throughout the one billion Muslims in the world, that is not
always a unified force, but even among -- against each other, as
we see in the Taliban case in Afghanistan. To get that as a
chain reaction, which makes Eurasia generally -- plunges it into
a state of chaos, where nobody's going to start anything which
would unify Eurasia, in economic cooperation.
That appears to be the target. That's what Brzezinski has
insisted upon. It's what he's committed to. And you have a lot
of people in the United States, and somewhere else, who agree
with that. You have people in Israel, who agree with it, and
some who disagree with it.
So you do have a geopolitical nightmare being cooked up by
some desperado types like Brzezinski, who personally is a nut.
You give nuts like that some power, you give them secret
organizations to control, you build up military groups which run
covert operations, ever since particuarly the Vietnam War, and
you've got lying around there the capability of trying to pull
a coup.
Oakley: Certainly provocative. As I said earlier, Lyndon
LaRouche, our guest from Leesburg, Virginia, the publisher of the
Executive Intelligence Review. Do you have a website for those
who wanted to follow up more thoroughly?
LaRouche: Yes, we do. You have first of all, there's
-- let me just get this thing right. We have larouchepub.com.
Larouche, name, pub.com. We also have a campaign telephone
number, an 800 number, 800-929-7566. And we also have another
one, which is LaRouchein2004, all one word, .com.
Oakley: Fair enough. I thank you for your time this
afternoon, and your rather provocative statements.
LaRouche: Good.
Oakley: Have a good afternoon.
LaRouche: Thank you.
-30-30-30-
