-Caveat Lector-
On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 00:40:43 -0500, in
internal.mailing-list.independent.ctrl you wrote:
> At 08:56 PM 11/28/01 , you wrote:
> >In a message dated 11/28/01 4:32:32 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >
> ><< Funny how people who are not in heaven are so confident in their
> >judgment of other people who are also not in heaven. >>
> >
> >Could it be that we are confusing wishful thinking with condemnation? THEY
> >say they are consigning people to the eternal flames, but it reality, it is
> >just wishful thinking.
>
> I think you miss the point. The fags are condemned by their own
> actions. They sicken and kill each other and spread killer diseases
> and morons stick up for them.
According to history, AIDS was first spread by a straight man.
> They have unnatural sex and enjoy putting their penises up the rectum
> of those of the same sex. To put it bluntly, they screw feces. Not
> to mention other unmentionable activities. If you think that is ok,
> then you are one sick MF. If you jump off a ten story building you
> get what you deserve. You commit homosexual acts you get disease and
> die.
Everyone dies.
> Not to hard to figure out. People who stick up for fags need to have
> their heads examined and should not be trusted with kids or be in any
> positions of authority. Politically Correct fag lovers make me sick.
> Everywhere and every time, when the elite powers want to destroy a
> nation and a people, they unleash homosexuals on society to degrade it
> and create anarchy.
Actually, the appearance of homosexuals on the scene only brings out the
preexisting hatred in a society. All the gays I've ever known have been
peaceful, caring and fun loving people.
> History shows that the rise of and acceptance of homosexuality always
> occurs, without exception, just before a nation is destroyed.
...by people who refuse to tolerate the fact that homosexuality exists.
Matthew Shepard didn't hurt anyone, yet two straight men tied him to a
fence and beat him to death.
> Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity,
> to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they
> exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the
> creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen.
>
> For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their
> women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise
> gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion
> for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving
> in their own persons the due penalty for their error.
The meaning of these verses is debatable. It all depends on your
perspective. I prefer the older King James Version because, to me, it
actually makes more sense:
ROMANS 1 - [27] And likewise also the men, leaving the
natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one
toward another; men with men working that which is
unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence
of their error which was meet. [28] And even as they
did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave
them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which
are not convenient;
Well, let's break that down some.
Romans 1:27 - and receiving in themselves that recompence of their
Romans 1:27 - error which was meet.
A recompense is an amends, award, or payment. An error is false knowledge
or the result of false knowledge, or a belief that unintentionally
deviates from what is correct, right or true. The word "meet" was used as
an adjective. The only use of the word "meet" as an ajective is defined
as "fitting and proper".
To continue with our little breakdown:
Romans 1:28 - [28] And even as they did not like to retain God in
Romans 1:28 - their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate
Romans 1:28 - mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Let's look at the noun "mind" which is modified by the adjective
"reprobate". Used as an adjective, "reprobate" means to be morally
unprincipled or shameless. In my opinion, in this context, "mind" is
referring to a collective mindset, such as "the public mind". If a
particular political figure is widely known to be corrupt and
untrustworthy, then one could make the statement:
The governor's recent actions have left a negative impression on the
public mind.
Remember that this is 16th Century English. The word "convenient" in that
time meant "fitting and proper" or "suitable".
So basically, the gist of what happened in these two verses is that some
people were caught doing some "things". God gave them over to a reprobate
mind... a public mind that was already morally unprincipled, Romans 3:10
through 12:
ROMANS 3 - [10] As it is written, There is none
righteous, no, not one: [11] There is none that
understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
[12] They are all gone out of the way, they are
together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth
good, no, not one.
So God wasn't giving "straight people" permission to judge. God was
simply noticing what was true and accepting it--accepting the fact that
the world consists of all the types of people described in verses 29
through 32:
Romans 1:29-32 - [29] Being filled with all
unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness,
maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit,
malignity; whisperers, [30] Backbiters, haters of God,
despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things,
disobedient to parents, [31] Without understanding,
covenantbreakers, without natural affection,
implacable, unmerciful: [32] Who knowing the judgment
of God, that they which commit such things are worthy
of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in
them that do them.
And Romans goes on to say:
Romans 2 - [1] Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man,
whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou
judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that
judgest doest the same things. [2] But we are sure
that the judgment of God is according to truth against
them which commit such things. [3] And thinkest thou
this, O man, that judgest them which do such things,
and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment
of God?
So a man who is gay is judged by a murderer, who is judged by a backbiter,
who is judged by a boaster, who is judged by the unmerciful, who is judged
by a hater of God, who is judged by a gossiper, who is judged by the
haughty, who is judged by the deceitful. Is any one person better than
the other? Does any one have the right to judge another when we're all
part of the same reprobate mind? I can answer that one by requoting
something from above:
ROMANS 3 - [10] As it is written, There is none
righteous, no, not one: [11] There is none that
understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
[12] They are all gone out of the way, they are
together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth
good, no, not one.
Damaeus
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