-Caveat Lector- i should say that christian identity fits the bill as being an armed of the ops i was involved in...get past some of the biases of the author here and check out some of the details
--- eric stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > http://www.sullivan-county.com/identity/index.htm > > Christian Identity is a Neo-Nazi cult. They refer to mainstream > Christianity as a "Jew religion" and substitute their own occult > beliefs. Willie Martin is a member of this cult who floods > newsgroups and bulletin boards with an endless stream of hate > against Jews and non-whites. > > Willie Martin is in fact a 62-year-old disabled oil worker who > lives in Texas. I have talked to Willie by e-mail and he really > does believe what he says. His justifies his anger and rage at > the > world with a wall of hate painted over with paranoia and endless > conspiracy theories. While I can sympathize with some of his > complaints, advocating armed overthrow of our government, > genocide > and murder/terror as state policy just goes too far. > > What is more shocking to me as a veteran is most of these crazies > are veterans who served their country with honor but for some > reason hate everything it stands for. What is really odd is the > vast majority of these right-wingers who want a war in our own > backyards have never seen combat. (I haven't either, in fact most > vets never do.) Those who I have known to be in combat (two older > brothers in "Nam" etc.) don't want to bring the jungle home and > would rather forget it. It seems the military "revs up" these > people for war, then leaves them hanging. The only problem is > that > some of them are still waiting for that war that never came. > Combine that with the American Christian obsession with > Armageddon > in the Book of Revelation, we have a recipe for tragedy. > > These attitudes towards the world has led to the creation of > monsters such as Tim McVeigh whose hatred and paranoia has led to > the deaths of a 168 innocent victims of "collateral damage" in > Oklahoma City. We also ended up with Randy "Ruby Ridge" Weaver, a > coward who hid behind his armed children to escape the law and > whose paranoid bullshit led to the deaths of his son Sammy and > his > wife Vicki. Let's look into their claims for an idea how > seemingly > normal people can go off the deep end. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > What are their real claims? They are as follows: > > The actual chosen people of the Bible are the Anglo-Saxon white > Europeans descended from the lost 10 tribes of ancient Israel who > have been secretly hiding in Europe. Hebrew is actually the > ancient > tongue of the Germans, Celts, etc. (Jesus was also British) Thus > Europeans are the Jews of the Bible! > > All modern Jews are imposters, descended from a Turkish tribe > called the Khazars that converted to Judaism. Thus Jews are the > gentiles! See Khazars. > > There were really two creations: one for the non-whites, and > another for Adam and Eve, who are also British. (Adam and the > Adamites) Thus the Bible is a lie! See Adamites > Who are the people that Christian Identity and Willie Martin cite > as experts? Communists, atheists, Nazis, assorted 19th century > cults, and their own revelations directly from Jesus/God himself! > > This is what Willie Martin says about Christians: > > "ALL TOO MANY ARE BEING LED TO FALSE GODS, BECAUSE THE CLERGY OF > ORGANIZED RELIGION, EVANGELISTS, AND TEACHERS HAVE FAILED THE > COMMISSION, THEY CLAIM, WAS GIVEN TO THEM BY ALMIGHTY GOD AND THE > LORD JESUS CHRIST; BUT THEIR WORKS PROVE, THAT IS A LIE, THEIR > WORKS PROVE THEY ARE REALLY WORKING FOR SATAN!" > Thus, your local pastor is a Satanist unless they are a member of > the Christian Identity cult. > > Their goal is nothing less than wrapping our Lord Jesus Christ in > a > Nazi uniform and destroying both His Word and the traditions of > this great nation. > > For an alternative perspective on "Christian Identity", check > out: > http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/christian-identity/religion-white-racists.html > > > Let's put these people on trial and decide if Jesus is a Nazi or > the Son of God. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Mr. Martin's opening remarks. > > "Some critics of Identity are simply uninformed regarding the > basic > belief system due to an inadequate foundation of evidence and > education. Others are so brainwashed by the Judeo-Christian false > shepherds, writers, radio and TV personalities, that their > premise > that the Jews are God's Chosen People becomes an almost > insurmountable barrier to open, honest and rational examination > of > the evidence to the contrary. Yes, Identity has become the new > target of the cult watchers, the politically and religiously > correct, and the simple-minded." > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > My opening remarks: > > Like everybody that makes radical claims, they will use anything > to > try to validate their beliefs. They always tend to quote fellow > believers as proof they are right or references nobody can find. > A > good example of this is the Afro-Centrist Movement. > > This silly cult claims all of our knowledge from the Greeks, > Romans, etc. was stolen from Africa and everybody is a liar to > claim otherwise. What is their proof? They only quote each other, > scream at anyone that disagrees, and finally reveal their > political/social agenda. Extreme environmentalists, feminists, > and > others also do this on the far left in addition to Christian > Identity, Christian Reconstructionists, Neo-Nazis, etc on the far > right. > > All of these groups operate outside the mainstream and reject > mainstream thought, refuse to present proof of their claims, and > rely mainly on pseudo-science, false authority, and assorted > mystics. They rely especially on each other. > > Truth is about facts. What is fact? What most of our society > considers fact it is based on both reason and experience. Our > legal > system (a jury) bases "fact" on the credibility of the physical > evidence and those who are called as witnesses. When they can't > present proof or reliable witnesses, they use other means. > > The process they use is what I call "self-revelation," a process > of > trying to construct one's desired beliefs/arguments (outside > reason > and empirical evidence.) based selected bits and pieces of the > Bible and other texts, and the revelations of mystics. Then they > claim it's "the word of God," "secret knowledge," "special > revelations" or whatever terms the author chooses to use. The > idea > is to confuse the jury and throw doubt on the facts. In everyday > terms, we call it bullshit. > > When nobody will agree with them, they always resort to > conspiracy > theories, (Jews, Freemasons, New World Order, Popes, Satan, > Christian Right, tooth fairies, etc.) and other assorted > paranoid/irrational nonsense. The evasions and conspiracy > theories > are endless. The proof is up to them. Lacking proof, there is > only > one real chance, discredit the truth. > > Thus they claim everybody else, most Christians included, just > don't understand them. We've been deceived all of our lives and > if > we would just listen, the proof is there. Ok, I'm listening, > let's > look closely at this proof. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > When I asked Willy Martin for list of references for his claims, > I > got the following: > > From Willie: > > The Bible relates that the Khazar (Ashkenaz) Jews were/are the > sons > of Japheth not Shem: "Now these are the generations of the sons > of > Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after > the flood. The sons of Japheth;...the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz..." > (Genesis 10:1-3) Therefore, the Bible proves that the Ashkenaz > Jews > [Khazars] are not the descendants of Shem and cannot be Semite. > My response: The Bible says no such thing. It says only this: > > "Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, > and > Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood. The sons > of > Japheth;...the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz..." (Genesis 10:1-3) > > This pattern of inserting comments and opinions into quotes > doesn't > make them quotes, just comments and opinions. Thus, he keeps > inserting Khazar. The word Khazar is not even in the Bible. So > says > the King James Version Electronic Bible with word search. (see > Khazar and Ashkenaz below) > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The History of the Jewish Khazars, by D.M. Dunlop: This guy is > the > only legitimate reference he cites. The only problem is he > doesn't > say all Eastern European Jews are Khazars. Perhaps Willie would > tell us what page that statement is on. This is what the facts > really are: > > D.M. DUNLOP, HISTORY OF THE JEWISH KHAZARS (Princeton Univ. > Press, > 1954): "It only remains now to consider the theory that the > modern > Jews of eastern Europe, or more particularly those in Poland, are > the descendants of the medieval Khazars. This can be dealt with > very shortly, because there is LITTLE EVIDENCE which bears > directly > upon it, and it unavoidably retains the character of a mere > assumption. ... To speak of the Jews of eastern Europe as > descendants of the Khazars...would be to GO MUCH BEYOND WHAT OUR > IMPERFECT RECORDS ALLOW." (pp. 261,263. Emphasis has been added > to > quotations. Dunlop is a source book for Koestler. Koestler > believes > the theory that east European Jews are descendants of the > Khazars.) > > > Sorry Willie, try again. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Encyclopedia Americana (1985): Encyclopedia Britannica (15th > edition): Academic American Encyclopedia (1985): Encyclopedia > Americana (1985): The American People's encyclopedia for 1954 > Academic American Encyclopedia, Deluxe Library Edition, Volume > 12, > The New Encyclopedia Britannica, Volume 6 > > He presented these on another newsqroup posting and refuses to > quote them "word for word" and keeps inserting his own stuff, > just > like he does with Scripture. He doesn't mean to lie, he simply > believes what he believes and wants to prove it. > > I don't have these editions but the one's I have don't say > anything > about all Jews being Khazars. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From Willie: > > The Jewish Encyclopedia: The Encyclopedia Judaica (1972): The > Universal Jewish Encyclopedia: Jewish Encyclopedia for 1925, The > Encyclopedia Judaica, The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia: > > "According to Ibn Fadlan, Ibn Dastah, and others, ONLY THE KING > AND > THE GRANDEES WERE FOLLOWERS OF JUDAISM. The rest of the Khazars > were Christians, Mohammedans, and heathens; and THE JEWS WERE IN > A > GREAT MINORITY." (Jewish Encyclopedia) > > Also see More on Khazars > > Me: I have no access to most of these. They know most people > won't > find them and they can claim anything they want. I'm sure there's > no statements that most/all Jews are Khazars. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From Willie: > > The Outline of History. H. G. Wells, "It is highly probable that > the bulk of the Jew's ancestors 'never' lived in Palestine 'at > all,' which witnesses the power of historical assertion over > fact." > > > That statement is false. I found a copy of The Outline of History > at a used bookstore in Johnson City, Tennessee. Wells doesn't say > any of the above in his book. This is what he really said; > "Behind > the Hungarians and Bulgarians thrust the Khazars, a Turkish > people, > with whom were mingled a very considerable portion of Jews who > had > been expelled from Constantinople, who had mixed with them and > made > many proselytes. To these Jewish Khazars, are to be ascribed the > great settlements of Jews in Poland and Russia." (P. 530) That is > all he says on Khazars. > > The only problem with this is he suggests the Jews were with the > Khazars from the beginning, thus because those Jews originated > from > the Byzantine Empire, thus Israel, Khazars were mostly Jews to > begin with. Even if they were the only ancestors of > Polish/Russian > Jews, they still came from ancient Israel. > > This isn't even close to what Willie Martin and other Neo-Nazis > are > claiming. On page 659 Wells described (in regards to Spain) as > bigoted the "persecution of Protestants, Moslems, and Jews." And > on > page 666 he described the Jews of Poland as "great masses of very > poor Jews." Hardly the rich Jew bankers of Nazi myth. > > Wells was very critical of anti-Semitism and Hitler. On page 918 > he > describes Hitler's "Mein Kampf" as "either absolute lies or bold > distortions of fact" and as "a confused, illiterate, schoolboy > production." > > H. G. Wells was a great science fiction writer, a socialist, an > atheist, and had a biology degree. He died in 1946 but his book > was > updated to 1945. He has no credentials in theology or history and > his "Outline of History" has been proven wrong on several points. > He never claimed any such credentials. While popular to the > public > in the 1920s on, this book has never been considered a history > text. > > Wells is still one of my favorite sci-fi writers. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From Willie: > > Facts Are Facts, By Benjamin Freedman. > > This guy claims to be a former Jew who spent millions of dollars > to > tell the world of evil Jewish plots. Seems like he wasted his > money, the only place he's got his story out to is hate-filled > Neo-Nazi sites such as Stormfront and from websites of the Arab > assholes who blew up the USS Cole killing 17 Americans. He is no > more Jewish than I am, if he existed at all. > > The Zionist Connection II, Alfred M. Lilienthal > > Appears only on Holocaust denial sites such as the Institute for > Historical Review, and others run by their fellow racists, Arab > terrorists, and Jew-baiters. Why resort to Holocaust denial? If > the > mass-murder of 12 million Jews, Gypsies, political prisoners, etc > didn't happen, National Socialism would become more acceptable. > Thus the Christian Identity version of National Socialism could > become an acceptable alternative to Christianity. > > Nothing again for proof outside Christian Identity. If I'm an > atheist trying to prove God doesn't exist and all I can quote is > the American Atheists, that is proof of nothing. This is why they > rely on each other. I do not accept information from Christian > Identity on this subject anymore than I accept atheist's websites > on God or Jesse Jackson on race relations. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Collier's Encyclopedia, Volume 14 See Khazars below. > > New Catholic Encyclopedia > > The Cadillac Modern Encyclopedia, Never heard of it. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From Willie: The Thirteenth Tribe, by Arthur Koestler > > My Response: > > Copyright (c) 1996 P. F. Collier, L. P. All rights reserved. > > KOESTLER, ARTHUR > > KOESTLER, ARTHUR (1905-1983), Hungarian author of Darkness at > Noon > (1941), one of the most important books of our time, and in some > ways a primer for a generation disillusioned with communism. Of > Russian descent, he was born on Sept. 5, 1905, in Budapest. He > received a scientific education in Vienna but did not complete > it. > In 1926 he went to Palestine as a convert to Zionism. > > (snip) > > In 1931 another conversion brought him to communism and Russia, > and > although he soon found Marxist policy and later the ideology > itself > unacceptable, both marked him for life. > > (snip) Koestler turned from political topics in the late 1950's > to > philosophical analyses of such subjects as art, science, society, > and religion. Notable works in this vein include The Sleepwalkers > (1959); The Lotus and the Robot (1960), an examination of the > contemporary significance of two Eastern religions, Yoga and Zen > Buddhism; > > (snip) > > and The Thirteenth Tribe (1976). Koestler committed suicide in > London on Mar. 4, 1983. > > My response: using a former communist who has no standing in > theology or history is proof of nothing. His suicide after > writing > "The 13th Tribe" shows his mental state near the end of his life. > While I'm sure he refers to the Khazars as a 13th tribe, the fact > many Khazar Jews were Jewish refugees from elsewhere doesn't > prove > modern Jews are not the descendants of the Jews of the Bible. > Talk > about grasping at straws... > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On this "Adam and the Adamite" business: > > From http://www.eschata.com/logos/christ.iden/christ.iden.htm > (This > is a Christian, not Jewish site.) we have the real origins of > this > Adam and the Adamite business: > > Quote: > > For instance, early Identity members struggled with traditional > Christian anthropology; specifically, they wondered how both > blacks > and whites could be descendants of the same original human. > Drawing > upon Victorian science, it seemed clear that, for instance, > blacks > and whites display different physical characteristics, making the > idea of a common ancestor unlikely. > > Drawing on the work of Isaac de la Peyr�re, a 17th century > Calvinist who advocated the idea of two creations (one for > Gentiles, the second for the creation of Adam) and of Dominick > M'Causland, a 19th century Englishman who wrote Adam and the > Adamite, British-Israelism had developed a historical theology of > creation based upon the presupposition that all nonwhites were > descendant from a sub-human, pre-Adamic species. > > Such a development in theological thought also clears up certain > questions that arise from the biblical text. For instance, when > faced with the dilemma of where Cain's wife came from, Identity > theology asserts that she was of one of the pre-Adamic races > (Barkun 1994, 154). > > End quote. > > My response: So here we have writings of a 19th century > Englishman > named Dominick M'Causland who couldn't stand the Biblical claim > that black people might be his relatives. What does he do? He > uses > ideas of a 17th century Calvinist mystic he read about and > concocted this whole business to undo Biblical truths he didn't > like. There is no Biblical basis for two creations. Christian > Identity does not follow Scripture, thus they are not Christians. > They are in fact a cult. > > If it's not written in Scripture, it is opinion at best. The > Bible > warns us again and again of false prophets and this is a good > example of that warning. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From Willie: Alexander Winchell > > Winchell, Alexander, 1824-1891. > > Alexander Winchell papers, 1833-1891. > > From the University of Michegan ( > http://www.umich.edu./~bhl/bhl/franclas/winchell.htm ) we get > this: > > > Alexander Whinchell was a professor of geology and paleontology > at > the University of Michigan He also served as director of the > Michigan Geological Survey and chancellor of Syracuse University. > In his day he was a popular lecturer and writer on scientific > topics. His views on race and ethnicity, though rejected today, > were very much in fashion at the time. His collection includes > correspondence, diaries, field notes, drafts of publications and > lectures, poems, reference files, scrapbooks, and visual > materials > relating to his research and writing in the fields of geology, > paleontology, evolutionary biology, and other fields of natural > history, and to his career as educator and state geologist. > > Me: Note he has no credibility in history, archeology, or > theology. > He is irrelevant to these subjects. This is like hiring a lawyer > to > do brain surgery. Winchell's racist writings are found on > something > called "Christian Defense League" in Arabi, La, another hate > group. > Christian Identity heavily quotes his stuff yet Christians > rejected > this guy in general. Why would anyone who claims to be Christian > quote evolutionists, communists, or an atheist science fiction > writer? > > Cont: > > The United Methodists at > http://www.drew.edu/books/200Years/part3/057.htm had this to say > in > regards to Winchell as it relates to religion vs science: > > Some persons tried to respond positively to these challenges. > Alexander Winchell, a professor of geology at Methodist-related > Vanderbilt University, suggested that Darwin's theory of > evolution > supported belief in God because it offered clear evidence of > design > in creation. Another sort of design became evident in 1878 when > Winchell discovered his teaching position had been abolished. > > Me: Winchell was a prominent geologist and evolutionist who tried > to reconcile science/religion, he failed. > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Let's clear up these Khazar and Ashkenaz ravings once and for > all. > I can find nowhere in any academic circles, any historian, or > encyclopedia that makes the claim "all present European Jews > descended from the Khazars. Nowhere is this said and the picture > is > more complex than that. > > From AN INTRODUCTION TO THE HISTORY OF KHAZARIA > by Kevin Alan Brook, Copyright (C) 1996 > Latest revision: July 2000. > > We have the following: > > The Khazars' dual-monarchy was a Turkic system under which the > kagan was the supreme king and the bek was the civilian army > leader. The kagans were part of the Turkic Asena ruling family > that > had provided kagans for other Central Asian nations in the early > medieval period. The Khazar kagans had relations with the rulers > of > the Byzantines, Abkhazians, Hungarians, and Armenians. To some > extent, the Khazarian kings influenced the religion of the Khazar > people, but they tolerated those who had different religions than > their own, so that even when these kings adopted Judaism they > still > let Greek Christians, pagan Slavs, and Muslim Iranians live in > their domains. In the capital city, the Khazars established a > supreme court composed of 7 members, and every religion was > represented on this judicial panel (according to one contemporary > Arab chronicle, the Khazars were judged according to the Torah, > while the other tribes were judged according to other laws). > > Ancient communities of Jews existed in the Crimean Peninsula, a > fact proven by much archaeological evidence. It is significant > that > the Crimea came under the control of the Khazars. The Crimean > Jewish communities were later supplemented by refugee Jews > fleeing > the Mazdaq rebellion in Persia, the persecutions of Byzantine > emperors Leo III and Romanus I Lecapenus, and for a variety of > other reasons. Jews came to Khazaria from modern-day Uzbekistan, > Armenia, Hungary, Syria, Turkey, Iraq, and many other places, as > documented by al-Masudi, the Schechter Letter, Saadiah Gaon, and > other accounts. The Arabic writer Dimashqi wrote that these > refugee > Jews offered their religion to the Khazar Turks.... > > Me: Khazaria was filled with refugee Jews from "Uzbekistan, > Armenia, Hungary, Syria, Turkey, Iraq, and many other places" and > likely outnumbered any converts. The Khazar rulers didn't require > conversion and tolerated anyone, even pagans. These refugees > certainly included those who ancestors originated in ancient > Israel. > > More information here: > > "Are Russian Jews descended from the Khazars?" > http://www.khazaria.com/khazar-diaspora.html > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia ( > http://www.newadvent.org )we have the following excerpt from > "History of the Jews:" > > It was during this period that the great Kingdom of the Chazars, > which was situated west of the Caspian Sea, and had caused the > Persians to tremble, embraced Judaism (c. 745); its rulers > remained > exclusively Jewish above two centuries and a half. After the > caliphs of the Ommiad dynasty, one of whom had a Jew as his > mint-master, those of the Abassides, till after Harun al-Rashid > (d. > 809), do not seem to have seriously disturbed their Jewish > subjects; during that time, the Babylonian Talmudic schools were > crowded with hearers, and had it not been for their internal > dissension, religious (Karaites) and political (contests for the > dignity of exilarch), the Jews of Babylon would have been as > happy > as they were renowned for their... > > Note: "rulers remained exclusively Jewish" it says nothing about > the whole population converting. This has been true on every > dictionary I can actually find. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Copyright (c) 1996 P. F. Collier, L. P. All rights reserved. > > KHAZARS > > KHAZARS, a nomadic Turkic people who first appeared north of the > Caucasus in the early part of the fourth century. In the seventh > century the Khazars conquered the kingdom of the Bulgars. They > built up a strong and prosperous state, which attained its > greatest > size in the ninth century, when it extended from the Crimea to > the > middle Volga and westward to the Dnepr River. The Khazars > developed > some important commercial cities and carried on trade with Russia > and the Byzantine Empire. The ruler of the Khazars, called the > qaqaan, was also the religious leader. Tolerant of other > religions, > the qaqaans welcomed thousands of Jews from Asia Minor and the > Byzantine Empire, as well as many Muslims and Christians. These > three religious groups vied with one another to convert the > Khazars, who followed their traditional religion. > > Around the middle of the eighth century the qacentury the qaan > and > his retinue adopted Islam, but at the turn of the ninth century > Qaninth century Qaan Bulan declared Judaism the state religion, > changing his name to Obadiah. However, the Khazar state continued > religious tolerance. It was finally overthrown in A.D. 965 by a > coalition of Russians and Byzantines. The Khazars soon > disappeared, > either fleeing westward or intermingling with other peoples in > southern Russia. The last vestiges of the Khazars in the Crimea > were destroyed by the Byzantines and Russians in 1016. > > FRED C. HAMIL > > This confirms the other Khazar articles above. > > Me: There is no mention anywhere of all or even most of the > people > of this region converting to Judaism. Even if (not likely) every > Jew in Eastern Europe came from Khazaria, they still would likely > have originated from the Middle East and Asia Minor. All of these > people and all Europeans are mixed anyway, and many Jews were > converted or assimilated, so these Christian Identity arguments > about the "exclusive Khazar" Jews have no merit and neither does > these Adamite revelations. > > This excerpt on Polish Jews from Copyright (c) 1996 P. F. > Collier, > L. P. All rights reserved. > > The ultimate fate of the Khazars and the extent of their > representation in the Polish Jewish population have been debated > by > historians to this day. The views on this matter range from the > great 19th-century historian Heinrich Graetz's insistence that > the > Khazar conversion to Judaism had almost no effect on subsequent > Jewish history to Arthur Koestler's book The Thirteenth Tribe , > in > which he argues that a majority of Ashkenazic Jewry is descended > from the Khazars. Most modern scholars of Jewish history believe > that, over the course of the 14th and 15th centuries, many > Khazars > were assimilated into Poland's already established Jewish > community, which was overwhelmingly of Franco-German origin. > > So much for communist Arthur Koestler who committed suicide. He > is > often quoted by Christian Identity to prove Jews are gentiles so > they can claim to be the people of the Bible. > > I'll send the complete article to anyone who requests it. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > How about the term "Ashkenaz" as used by Christian Identity? > > Colliers again in ASHKENAZIM: > > The term Ashkenaz originally denoted a people and/or country in > the > Armenia-Upper Euphrates area (Genesis 10:3; I Chronicles 1:6; > Jeremiah 51:27). Scholars have offered varying suggestions as to > how the word became associated with Germany, but in any case > Ashkenaz had become established as the accepted Hebrew term for > Germany by the 11th century. At that time, the Rhineland was the > main center of western Jewish culture north of the Pyrenees. > However, the Franco-German Jewry was nearly wiped out by repeated > Christian massacres during the epoch of the Crusades and the > Black > Death (12th-14th centuries). > > Some scholars have suggested that the term Ashkenazi was already > in > use as a self-identification among the Khazar Jewry, because the > tenth-century spiritual leader of Oriental Jewry, Saadiah Gaon, > had > identified the Khazars with the biblical Ashkenaz. > > Me: So this term was never applied to Jews at all in the Old > Testament and didn't mean Jewish anything until after the 10th > century, if then. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Final word. > > Willie Martin is the victim of a cult that feeds on the anger and > frustrations of others. Like many Americans he is angered at > social > and economic changes he doesn't approve of or doesn't understand. > They told him whom to blame then supplied the reasons why. I'll > bet > Mr. Martin has never read "History of the World" or believes in > Winchell's evolution. What these people do is hunt for anything > to > degrade Jews no matter how trivial or where it comes from. He > could > be a founder of this cult on the basis of the massive amount of > material he floods the newsgroups with. > > It is up to you the reader to check out the facts for yourself. > Do > not allow these bigots to hide their hate behind the Bible or > allow > them to infiltrate your churches. God is the one judge that > really > counts! > > I'm not Jewish but he can put me on Jew Watch hate page if he > wants > to. On second thought, according to them, I'm Jewish after all. > > If anybody has verifiable proof from reputable and disinterested > scholars on this, please send it to me. Please don't quote > anymore > communists, atheists, Nazis, Arab terrorists, or science fiction > writers as experts on history or theology. > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A> > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > ========== > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing > propagandic > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance�not soap-boxing�please! These > are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'�with its many half-truths, > mis- > directions and outright frauds�is used politically by different > groups with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time > and thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of > posts, and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. 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