-Caveat Lector-
Then we will liberate Texas! (We remember the Alamo).
POC
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 19:23:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Franklin Wayne Poley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: The Balkanization of BC?
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 19:20:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Franklin Wayne Poley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: "A Message to All Canadians from the Okanagan Nation"
Exact title of 3/4 pager in The Province of Oct. 15/92.
I quote: "No other nation in this world can give us what we already have.
Our nationhood and our sovereignty."
And "...the rights we would allow the white people to have in our
territory."
And "...we were a sovereign people and would remain so within all of the
practices handed down to us...."
And "We have decared this position at the United Nations...."
Now if you know of any official statement of any First Nation in British
Columbia which relinquishes or mollifies sovereignty, you quote it for us.
FWP
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:58:56 +0000
From: Al Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [INGRAM] Re: [nativeamericanlaw] Haida Nation to Launch Title
Lawsuit
You are certainly right, that I don't understand "an option to perpetuity",
even if capitalized and repeated. If you ever find perpetuity, would you
tell me about it?
I am not much interested in exploring an idea that is not on the radar
screen, that would lead to political polarization, and that would provide no
benefits to anyone.
Having once lived in BC I would say that the weirdest political ideas
sometimes seem to get discussed there, as if anythiung were possible, but
the mass of the population seems to vote slightly left or a further right of
centre with unfailing regularity.
>From: Franklin Wayne Poley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Al Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [INGRAM] Re: [nativeamericanlaw] Haida Nation to Launch Title
>Lawsuit
>Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:30:09 -0800 (PST)
>
>On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Al Campbell wrote:
>
> > "What harm would it do ...?" Are you suggesting that it would do no
>harm?
>
>I am stating it very clearly, not suggesting or hinting at it. There is no
>harm in a given First Nation starting the proceedings (if you like that
>term better) to gain a seat in the UN General Assembly and every good that
>will come from it.
>
> > I find this discussion oddly skewed.
>
>There is nothing skewed about it. But First Nations will continue to get
>skrewed around until they establish that one of their FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS
>is FULL and UNCONDITIONAL SOVEREIGNTY LIKE ANY OTHER NATION IN THE WORLD,
>eg a nation with a seat in the UN General Assembly. Have you ever read the
>Okanagan Nation's Declaration on Sovereignty in The Province, 1992 or the
>UBCIC Comprehensive Framework Treaty? I can't find even a hint in either
>case, ie no "suggestion" that sovereignty means anything but 100% and
>unconditional sovereignty to them. What do those documents suggest to you?
>
> > To the best of my understanding, nobody just goes to the UN and makes a
> > request. Somebody seeking independence and international sovereign
>status
> > has first to convince enough world states that they are for real and win
> > recognition. After that, they can apply for a seat at the UN.
>
>There is no standardized method for gaining a seat in the General
>Assembly. If there were, the UN would issue a booklet on it.
>
> > Not so many years ago there were a number of states in s. Africa, called
> > Bantustans, which claimed to be international sovereign states and had
>some
> > of those features. But they could not win recognition in the world
> > community and today they are part of South Africa....
>
>See above...no standardized method. The way the Balkan countries entered
>the UN is not the same as the way Czech State and Slovakia entered, etc.
>
> > If Quebec were to hold yet another referendum on sovereignty, and get a
>yes
> > response, then follow this with a declaration of independence, there
>would
> > be some states which would be quick to extend recognition. But not
>most.
> > Most would wait and see. FNs would have a much tougher time, lacking
>the
> > numbers, financial resources and territory. There might be a few people
> > around who have the fantasy of total independence, on both sides, but it
>is
> > a fantasy.
>
>Anything we have in mind which is not actualized, is a fantasy by
>definition. In 1995, the Quebec Government and BQ had a fantasy of
>seceding from Canada. At the same time the Northern Cree had a fantasy
>that they would pull the Cree Nation out of Quebec if Quebec seceded from
>Canada and they voted 95% for that fantasy, thinking there was no harm in
>doing so and every good. Plant stated on VOBC that FN's do take their own
>referenda on various issues and that is quite lawful. It is equally lawful
>for them individually or in aggregate to vote on seeking a seat in the UN
>General Assembly. I have no idea how this vote would turn out. But I do
>know that the FN published declarations I referred to above are 100% clear
>that this is not some kind of oxymoronish "sovereignty with dependence"
>that they are talking about. And if they do not exercise FULL SOVEREIGNTY
>with attendant acts like taking a seat in the UN today, it is AN OPTION TO
>PERPETUITY. I'll say that again because you don't seem to get it:
>
>IT IS AN OPTION TO PERPETUITY.
>
>That being so, NO settlement like the Nisga'a settlement is final and
>David Ingram, for all his good wishes to both sides is 'whistling dixie'
>if he thinks such settlements are going to convince business and
>investors that the future will bring no changes in borders or rights.
>
>FWP
>
> > - Alastair Campbell
> >
> > >From: Franklin Wayne Poley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: Franklin Wayne Poley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Subject: Re: [INGRAM] Re: [nativeamericanlaw] Haida Nation to Launch
> > > TitleLawsuit
> > >Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:33:00 -0800
> > >
> > >What harm would it do if a given First Nation were to take its request
>for
> > >a seat in the General Assembly to the UN? It wouldn't require that
>other
> > >FN's follow suit but it would be a precedent for the OPTION and it
>would
> > >set the BC and Canadian governments straight on what the limit of
> > >Aboriginal Sovereignty really is...IT HAS NO LIMIT.
> > >FWP
> > >
> > >On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Michael Posluns wrote:
> > >
> > > > Rights that are guaranteed in the Constitution, particularly those
>that
> > >are
> > > > guanrateed several times over, are not subject to referenda. No
>doubt,
> > > > however, on the eve of the Trail of Tears when Andrew Jackson was
>about
> > >to
> > > > drive the Cherokee nation into a forced march that would kill the
>vast
> > > > majority of its citizens, a referendum of the white Americans
>entitled
> > >to
> > > > vote would have supported their president.
> > > >
> > > > Likewise, many 20th century leaders might have won a referendum on
>the
> > >eve
> > > > of similarly destructive events.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Michael Posluns.
> > > >
> > > > Franklin Wayne Poley wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, brent rooney wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I am very surprised that Canadian Indian supporters are not
> > > > > > voluntarily turning over land title of their own property to
>Indians
> > > > > > right now.
> > > > >
> > > > > I wonder how many non-FN's would accept it if FN's drafted a
> > >referendum
> > > > > unilaterally and put it forward to the province as a whole. I
>wonder
> > >if
> > > > > more people would mail in ballots to that referendum than to the
> > > > > unilateral Campbell referendum?
> > > > >
> > > > > FWP
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > If we knew where knowledge goes when it evaporates, perhaps we might
> > >learn
> > > > to recover what we have lost and to reconstitute it as distilled
>wisdom.
> > > >
> > > > "How long will you judge unjustly, and show partiality toward the
> > >wicked?
> > > > Do justice to the poor and fatherless, deal righteously with the
> > >afflicted
> > > > and destitute. Rescue the poor and needy; save them from the hand
>of
> > >the
> > > > wicked." (A Psalm of Asaph, The Psalm for the Third Day.)
> > > >
> > > > How can we be sure that the unexamined life is not worth living?
> > > >
> > > > Michael W. Posluns,
> > > > The Still Waters Group,
> > > > Parliamentary Relations & Public Policy
> > > >
> > > > Daytime: 416 995-8613
> > > > Evening: 416 656-8613
> > > > Fax: 416 656-2715
> > > >
> > > > 36 Lauder Avenue,
> > > > Toronto, Ontario,
> > > > M6H 3E3
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> >
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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