-Caveat Lector- Just the FACTS will stand in this case. And the world will JUDGE, not a bunch of yankee shit heads dressed in black, as to whether the court has addressed the FACTS and only the FACTS to resolve this case. POC
On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, thew wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > We have been over this > > 1 - the meridian building was entirely different building style > > > 2 the steel did not melt - it deformed > > > on 8/23/02 3:55 PM, Party of Citizens at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > -Caveat Lector- > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 12:50:20 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Party of Citizens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: [BCPOLITICS] One trillion $ worth of 9/11 FACTS, 1/2 > > > > Then there were the facts put forward in a one-hour documentary on Vision > > TV. The lawyer interviewed by CTV News this week said this case rides on > > the FACTS. It will be interesting when all those FACTS are assembled in > > one venue. So far it looks like they do not clearly point to a single > > perpetrator. When they are all put together for those judging the case, it > > will be necessary for the lawyers to set out two or more possible or > > probable perpetrators. Who will they be? > > POC > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:15:49 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Ronald Hudlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: David Ingram at the CEN-TA Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [INGRAM] World Trade Center Collapse - were there other > > eplosions? > > > > Now a trillion dollar law soot hangs on the FACTS, dudes. So what ARE the > > facts? > > The Red Menace > > > > On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, David Ingram at the CEN-TA Group wrote: > > > >> Kevin's other attachment follows about the World Trade Centres Collapse > >> > >> Interesting reading. > >> > >> Feds Withhold Crucial WTC Evidence > >> By Christopher Bollyn > >> American Free Press > >> 8-8-2 > >> > >> Evidence debunking the official explanation for the > >> collapse of the World Trade Center is being kept > >> secret by > >> the U.S. Dept. of Justice on a flimsy pretext. > >> > >> The U.S. Dept of Justice has ordered secrecy measures > >> to > >> keep the contents of a 'lost tape' of firefighters' > >> voices > >> at the World Trade Center from being made public. The > >> reason for the secrecy surrounding the 78-minute > >> audiotape > >> is because it evidently debunks the accepted > >> explanation > >> that intense jet fuel fires melted the towers� steel > >> beams > >> and caused the collapses. > >> > >> The New York Times recently revealed the existence of > >> the > >> tape of radio transmissions between firefighters of > >> the New > >> York Fire Department (NYFD), which proves that �at > >> least > >> two men� had reached the 78th floor Sky Lobby of the > >> South > >> Tower. The firefighters had reported about the fires > >> and > >> casualties they encountered and begun evacuating the > >> survivors. > >> > >> The article said that firefighters �reached the crash > >> zone > >> on the 78th floor, where they went to the aid of > >> grievously > >> injured people trapped in a sprawl of destruction.� > >> While > >> the Times article raises as many questions as it > >> answers, > >> it points to a reason for the secrecy: "Once they got > >> there," the article says, "they had a coherent plan > >> for > >> putting out the fires they could see and helping > >> victims > >> who survived." > >> > >> The report names two of the firefighters who were at > >> the > >> crash site: Battalion Chief Orio J. Palmer, who was > >> organizing the evacuation of injured people, and Fire > >> Marshal Ronald P. Bucca. Both men died in the > >> collapse. > >> 343 NYFD firefighters perished on 911. > >> > >> 'TWO POCKETS OF FIRE' > >> > >> The voices of the firefighters "showed no panic, no > >> sense > >> that events were racing beyond their control," the > >> Times > >> wrote. "At that point, the building would be standing > >> for > >> just a few more minutes, as the fire was weakening the > >> structure on the floors above him. Even so, Chief > >> Palmer > >> could see only two pockets of fire, and called for a > >> pair > >> of engine companies to fight them." > >> > >> "I didn't hear fear, I didn't hear panic," Palmer's > >> widow > >> said. "When the tape is made public to the world, > >> people > >> will hear that they all went about their jobs without > >> fear, > >> and selflessly." > >> > >> The fact that veteran firefighters had 'a coherent > >> plan for > >> putting out' the 'two pockets of fire' indicates they > >> judged the blazes to be manageable. These reports from > >> the > >> scene of the crash provide crucial evidence debunking > >> the > >> government's unfounded claim that a raging > >> steel-melting > >> inferno led to the tower's collapse. As the FEMA > >> 'Building > >> Performance Assessment' report says, "Temperatures may > >> have > >> been as high as 900 - 1,100 C. (1,700 - 2,000 F.) in > >> some > >> areas." > >> > >> "If FEMA's temperature estimates are correct, the > >> interiors > >> of the towers were furnaces capable of casting > >> aluminum and > >> glazing pottery," Eric Hufschmid, author of the book > >> 'Time > >> for Painful Questions' writes. Yet the voices on the > >> tape > >> prove that several firefighters were able to work > >> 'without > >> fear' for an extended period at the point of the > >> crash, and > >> that the fires they encountered there were neither > >> intense > >> nor large. > >> > >> Incredibly, the South Tower literally disintegrated in > >> less > >> than an hour after being hit by a plane, which > >> impacted > >> between its 78th and 84th floors. "Fire has never > >> caused a > >> steel building to collapse," Hufschmid writes, "so, > >> how did > >> a 56-minute fire bring down a steel building as strong > >> as > >> the South Tower?" > >> > >> Hufschmid's forthcoming book presents compelling > >> evidence > >> that explosives caused the towers to collapse. > >> > >> Pointing to the Meridian Plaza fire in Philadelphia in > >> 1991, Hufschmid writes, "The Meridian Plaza fire was > >> extreme, but it did not cause the building to > >> collapse. The > >> fire in the South Tower seems insignificant by > >> comparison > >> to both the Meridian Plaza fire and the fire in the > >> North > >> Tower. How could the tiny fire in the South Tower > >> cause the > >> entire structure to shatter into dust after 56 minutes > >> while much more extreme fires did not cause the > >> Meridian > >> Plaza building to even crack into two pieces?" > >> > >> The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (PA), > >> the bi- > >> state authority and owner of the World Trade Center, > >> retrieved the 'lost tape'. A spokesman for the > >> authority, > >> Greg Trevor, told AFP that the tape was found in PA > >> police > >> offices at 5 WTC, 'two or three weeks' after 911. The > >> PA > >> police monitored radio transmissions from the WTC. > >> > >> Because of an unexplained delay in producing the tape > >> it > >> was believed �for months� that firefighters had gone > >> no > >> higher than about the 50th floor in each tower. The > >> delay, > >> Trevor said, was due to the time required to transfer > >> the > >> voice data to 'encrypted CDs'. > >> > >> In January or February, the PA offered a copy of the > >> tape > >> to NYFD officials, who reportedly declined the offer > >> because they did not want to sign the confidentiality > >> agreement as demanded by the PA. The Independent (UK) > >> added > >> that the PA 'held back from sharing it with police and > >> only > >> relinquished it on condition that a confidentiality > >> agreement was signed.' > >> > >> "That's not correct," Trevor told AFP regarding the > >> allegation that the PA had withheld the tape from the > >> police. The PA had only handled the tape "under the > >> instruction of the U.S. Attorney's office," he said. > >> > >> A spokesman for the NYPD expressed surprise when AFP > >> asked > >> if the police had conducted a criminal investigation > >> into > >> the events at the WTC. Spokesman Bernard Gifford said > >> NYPD > >> had not pursued a criminal investigation of 911 > >> having 'turned it over' to the FBI. Gifford wouldn�t > >> say > >> when this occurred, although Joe Valiquette of the New > >> York > >> office of the FBI told AFP that the federal bureau had > >> run > >> the investigation 'from the moment it happened.' > >> > >> On August 2, the relatives of the 16 firefighters > >> whose > >> voices were identified on the tape were allowed to > >> hear > >> their last words in a New York City hotel. The > >> families > >> were first required to sign a statement prepared by > >> lawyers > >> they would not disclose what was said on the tape. > >> > >> BECOMING PUBLIC? > >> > >> Despite the fact that the contents of the tape are > >> being > >> kept secret, the Times article says, "Only now, nearly > >> a > >> year after the attacks, are the efforts of Chief > >> Palmer, > >> Mr. Bucca and others becoming public. City fire > >> officials > >> simply delayed listening to a 78-minute tape that is > >> the > >> only known recording of firefighters inside the > >> towers." > >> > >> While Fire Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta said he had > >> not > >> known the tape existed until 'very recently', both the > >> Times and CNN err in claiming that the NYFD is the > >> agency > >> behind the extreme secrecy. "The Fire Department has > >> forbidden anyone to discuss the contents publicly on > >> the > >> ground that the tape might be evidence in the trial of > >> Zacarias Moussaoui, the man accused of plotting with > >> the > >> hijackers," the Times said. > >> > >> When AFP asked the NYFD why the only conversations > >> between > >> firefighters engaged at the scene of the crash had to > >> be > >> kept secret because of Zacarias Moussaoui, who was in > >> prison in Minnesota at the time, the spokesman > >> replied, "Take it up with the Dept. of Justice." > >> > >> WHAT EXPLOSIONS? > >> > >> Asked about the numerous reports by eyewitnesses, > >> including > >> firefighters, of explosions inside the towers before > >> they > >> collapsed, Mike Logrin, spokesman for the NYFD, > >> said, "We're pretty sure there weren't bombs in the > >> building." Logrin said there was "no evidence� of > >> explosions, and for �scientific evidence" about the > >> collapse recommended viewing a television program. > >> "Didn't > >> you see the NOVA [PBS] special on the collapse?" he > >> asked. > >> > >> On September 1,1 the British Broadcasting Corp. (BBC) > >> interviewed one of its New York-based reporters, Steve > >> Evans, who was in the second tower when it was hit. > >> > >> Evans reported: "I was at the base of the 2nd tower, > >> the > >> second tower that was hit. There was an explosion - I > >> didn't think it was an explosion - but the base of the > >> building shook. I felt it shake - then when we were > >> outside, the second explosion happened and then there > >> was a > >> series of explosions. We can only wonder at the kind > >> of > >> damage -- the kind of human damage -- which was caused > >> by > >> those explosions - those series of explosions," he > >> said. > >> > >> Evans is a professional journalist and although his > >> observations of explosions in the second tower should > >> be > >> taken into account, they are not. Numerous > >> eyewitnesses > >> reported seeing or hearing explosions, but these > >> reports > >> have been avoided by the agencies supposedly leading > >> the > >> investigation. > >> > >> Valiquette of the FBI told AFP that he had not "heard > >> anything" about reports of explosions in the building > >> and > >> that he had "never heard any discussion of it" in the > >> FBI's > >> New York office. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > In August, 2001, the popular Ingram show was cancelled, suddenly and without > > explanation. It was the only televised challenge to the social-political > > establishment of BC. Why did this happen? What can be done to remedy this > > assault against our by-Constitution "democratic society"? > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> > > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/XgSolB/TM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > > According to <http://www.gov.bc.ca> some 3/4 of British Columbians were > > Internet users by 2001. In 5 years or so, the new EDD, "Electronic Direct > > Democracy" will be fully developed and the CITIZENS' PARLIAMENT will hold the > > reins of power daily over the Victoria Parliament. The 1996 Recall and > > Initiative Act enables CITIZENS to recall even the Premier. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! 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