Hi Matthew

> Well, yes.  But if 90% of configs and people have the same boolean
> setting, that's probably a sign that the default is dumb   :p

Not if their setting is the default! That's a sign that the default is
good. (You may have survey results I don't know about?)


Anyhow, the more important point is that the introduction of tabs in
browsers has changed what is and isn't dumb. Firefox makes it possible to
have multiple windows each with multiple tabs. I use this as part of my
long term working memory (needed for an aging brain...).

The NoSort default meant that I could open firefox windows in a particular
order with the more transient and changing windows coming later. I
currently have 13 windows, but it can go up to about 20. Some have at most
three or four tabs, while others can go have a lot higher (e.g. browsing
options in Amazon!).

I can get fairly quickly to a desired *window* by going to the iconmanager,
using the order of items. E.g. The top icon will correspond to relatively
personal stuff that stays up a long time and is accessed infrequently,
though I sometimes open new 'personal' tabs there temporarily (e.g.
changing a subscription).

The bottom few icons represent windows created fairly recently, which are
needed only temporarily. If I change tabs in an open window, that
(normally) changes the window title, and therefore the icon title. With the
Sort default on, changing tabs can therefor move the icon up or down and
that is very confusing, as I found when the default changed.

Does anyone really want a window icon to move up and down in the
iconmanager depending on which tab is open in that window? That's what the
new default did to me recently, until I worked out how to turn it off.

If I want to change the order in the iconmanager, I use the Workspace
manager to move some windows temporarily to another workspace and then drag
them back in the desired order. Perhaps I am the only person on the planet
who does that. Ideally it should be possible to use the keyboard (e.g.
Up/Down arrows) to move items in in the iconmanager up or down.) Until I
switched off sorting, all my attempts to reorder windows were defeated by
changing tabs.

Summary: the sorted default could be useful if users label icons, whereas
currently the window title, and therefore the icon label, is determined by
the page being viewed, in the case of browser windows. So leaving icon
order unchanged is likely to generate less confusion than moving them
around according to what (often arbitrary) titles the web site designers
have chosen.

Idle question: do you also like tabs in a browser window to be
alphabetically sorted, as opposed to either having new tabs next to the
tabs from which they were opened, or having new tabs at the end?

Is there any browser that sorts tabs alphabetically?

If the new default is preserved, I suggest adding a warning on the Ctwm web
site, informing people trying the new system for the first time, that if
they don't want the iconmanager sorted alphabetically they should set the
new option NoSortIconManager on.

Not doing that cost me several days of confusion and unsuccessful
experimentation.

Anyhow, thanks again for all your efforts.

Aaron

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