Ian
Here's some useful background info about distributions, probably well known to
you, but mostly news to me. Maybe some of it belongs in our distribution page?
http://haskell.org/ghc/distribution_packages.htmlSimon -----Original Message----- From: Russel Winder [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 May 2009 07:46 To: Simon Peyton-Jones Cc: Simon Marlow Subject: RE: Haskell on multicore machines Simon, <Sorry this has turned into a bit of an essay.> On Fri, 2009-05-08 at 20:36 +0100, Simon Peyton-Jones wrote: > Russel > > | In terms of marketing Haskell, it might be very wise to ensure Ubuntu > | gets a really up-to-date version of Haskell on each of the half-yearly > | releases. This means having really up to date versions in Debian Sid > | and making sure they taken up by Ubuntu. A lot of people have been > | moaning that Ubuntu is still on 6.8, but there were issues and it would > | have been good if the Haskell team could have stepped up and helped sort > | things out. > > Thanks for the info. It's the first I've heard of problems with > Ubuntu. We can only help if someone asks! So maybe you in turn could > encourage any Ubuntu packagers you know to discuss with us if there > are things we could do to make their life better. There should be no > reason that 6.10 (which has been out for a year) shouldn't be on > Ubuntu. Debian releases are about 18--24 months apart but most people run the pre-release which is effectively a continuous update system. Doing a search of the Debian package database: http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=ghc&searchon=names&suite=all§ion=all shows that 6.8 is the latest stable version but that 6.10 has entered unstable -- which should mean that it moves to testing (the current snapshot of the next release) when all the problems are fixed. Kari Pahula is the named packager (see, for example, http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/ghc6) for Debian so I would advise setting up a relationship with that person and giving them all the support they need to ensure 6.10 enters testing. The current reasons for the blocks in transfer from Sid to Squeeze are at http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/ghc6.html but I haven't checked the details, just that Kari probably needs some help. This will enable 6.11 to have a much smoother ride. Ubuntu releases every 6 months having pulled in whatever it wants from Debian. It is generally wise to check that the next release of Ubuntu has the version of a particular package that you want you want it to by the time of the package freeze. So for example: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=all§ion=all&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=ghc6 Shows that 9.10 Karmic Koala will have 6.10 in -- this is the one from Debian Sid repackaged for Ubuntu. It has been included from the general sweep of Debian Sid made by Ubuntu. The difficulty is that Ubuntu picks up packages from unstable even if they are not permitted to enter testing, which can sometimes be a problem. The corollary is that getting stuff into Debian Sid in a timely fashion is the best way of getting things into Ubuntu. Debiand (and hence Ubuntu) have very strict policies about how to partition big systems into many packages, so GHC6 is not a single package but many. ghc6* is all the commands and core stuff that cannot be done without, whereas all the libraries will be in libghc6*. In particular each add-on library is a separate package. MacPorts on Mac OS X is a continuous update system. Currently: |> sudo port list *ghc* Password: ghc @6.10.2 lang/ghc ghc-devel @6.7 lang/ghc-devel hs-ghc-paths @0.1.0.5 devel/hs-ghc-paths |> sudo port info ghc Password: ghc @6.10.2 (lang, haskell) Variants: darwin_6, darwin_7, darwin_8_i386, darwin_8_powerpc, darwin_9_i386, darwin_9_powerpc The Glasgow Haskell Compiler is a robust, fully-featured, optimising compiler and interactive environment for Haskell 98, GHC compiles Haskell to either native code or C. It implements numerous experimental language extensions to Haskell 98, for example: concurrency, a foreign language interface, multi-parameter type classes, scoped type variables, existential and universal quantification, unboxed types, exceptions, weak pointers, and so on. GHC comes with a generational garbage collector, and a space and time profiler. Homepage: http://haskell.org/ghc Library Dependencies: libedit, gmp, perl5.8 Platforms: darwin Maintainers: [email protected] |> Whoever this maintainer is they seem to have a simpler time than the Debian/Ubuntu people. The packages takes absolutely ages to compile -- like Gentoo, MacPorts is a download source, compile and install system -- but it seems to work fine. As for Solaris 10, everyone I know uses Steve Christensen's Sunfreeware.Com (http://www.sunfreeware.com/). GHC seems to be sadly lacking from here. However given that the MacPort exists, it must be feasible to get it packaged for Sunfreeware. Just note though that they use GCC 3! Also I am not sure how you can bootstrap GHC as there is no extant Solaris GHC -- perhaps there is an alternative bootstrap in the GHC system? GHC appears not to be packaged for OpenSolaris either: http://pkg.opensolaris.org/release/en/search.shtml?token=ghc&action=Search returns no results. The point here is that only converts or people forced to will go to the GHC website and download a distribution. Converts and addicts will download source and compile, most will download a pre-prepared binary distribution from: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/download_ghc_6_10_2.html which clearly shows though that there are people preparing binary packages for Linux (32- and 64-bit), Windows, Mac OS X and Solaris -- though this mostly seems to be Christian Maender. However, unless GHC is packaged as an integral part of the Debian/Ubuntu, Fedora/RHEL/CentOS, SuSE, MacPorts, Fink, Solaris, OpenSolaris packaging, most people will not see or know about GHC and so take up will never be more than a tiny minority of the programmers of the world. Getting into these packaging structures to enable the packagers to have a really easy time is far more important than having ready made binary distributions. Installing GHC then becomes a simple matter of click and it happens. (Even if it does take a long time, cf. MacPorts :-) > I hope that parallel programming on the HEAD goes better for you. I shall see next week. Today we are off to a wedding. Thanks. -- Russel. ============================================================ Dr Russel Winder Partner Concertant LLP t: +44 20 7585 2200, +44 20 7193 9203 41 Buckmaster Road, f: +44 8700 516 084 voip: sip:[email protected] London SW11 1EN, UK. m: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: [email protected]
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