Hi Dan, one more question, I am not sure how its going to work if tools depened 
on core. Based on our current dependency path, tools <- API <- rt, if  we make 
tools depending on rt, isnt it a circular dependency?


-----Original Message-----
From:   Liu, Jervis
Sent:   Sat 9/23/2006 3:57 PM
To:     [email protected]
Cc:     
Subject:        RE: Tooling Proposal [was Re: tooling and service model]

Hi Dan, The plan looks good to me. I had a chat with Jim, we estimate the item 
1 to 5 should be no more than a week's work (or sth around that). In a previous 
thread, James and Jim already mentioned that they are interested in working on 
this, I may also want to pick up some taskes in the area once I get the JAW-WS 
handler stories done. Regarding item 6, the replacement of code model, the work 
itself should be straightforward, just a lot of changes involved, so its a bit 
hard to give an estimate at this moment, but we shall know once we are starting 
working on this.

BTW, are we still planing anything for next month's Apache-con? I am not sure 
how this can be done without being able to publish CXF snapshot to public 
repository.

Cheers,
Jervis




-----Original Message-----
From:   Dan Diephouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:   9/23/2006 (???) 1:55 ??
To:     [email protected]
Cc:     
Subject:        Re: Tooling Proposal [was Re: tooling and service model]

I don't know why it would be considered taboo to bring up reasons for 
not refactoring the tools like that. There are perfectly valid reasons 
to want to avoid doing this - like having limited resources or just not 
caring about the feature or having a schedule the project is trying to 
adhere to. I think its best to bring them up and discuss them.

With that said, I do think there are significant benefits from a longer 
term point of view to refactor the tooling like I've proposed - like 
reduction of code[1] and extensibility. I also don't think it would be 
that hard for someone to do. I am even willing to work on it myself...

Cheers,
- Dan

1. While XFire tooling doesn't have quite as many features as the Celtix 
tooling, it does come in at 2K lines of code, compared to 20K with 
Celtix. Thats a significant difference that I dont' think can be 
accounted for by features alone.

Bacon, Stephanos wrote:

>So I'm guessing that by bringing iona's rationale for not refactoring the 
>tools, you probably broke some kind of apache taboo.
>
>I get the impression that in Apache the normal kind of "why waste time 
>rewriting something that works" kind of argument doeant hold water because 
>there is no concept of schedule.  If the result is cleaner code, then there is 
>a good arument for doing it.
>
>I suspect you'll get flamed :-)
>
>-steph
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Lin, Bozhong
>To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
>Sent: Fri Sep 22 02:22:39 2006
>Subject: RE: Tooling Proposal [was Re: tooling and service model]
>
>I also agree that it makes a lot of sense to leverage current Celtix tooling 
>implementation and to do any refactoring only for meeting new requirements. 
>These tools are fundamental to application users and IONA has spent tremendous 
>effort in the past year to maintain and tune the Celtix tools, making sure 
>that it passes all kinds of complex WSDL and Schema, including many issues 
>reported by Celtix users. [1].
>
>Cheers,
>Bo
>
>[1] http://forge.objectweb.org/tracker/index.php?group_id=192&atid=350241  
>
>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Dan Diephouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:05 PM
>>To: [email protected]
>>Subject: Tooling Proposal [was Re: tooling and service model]
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>2. If we are to write a new tool from scratch, what are the 
>>>      
>>>
>>feature list we have in mind, and how long do we expect to 
>>reach this feature list. 
>>    
>>
>>This is not what I'm proposing at all. I too feel this would be silly.
>>
>>
>>Here is what I'm proposing:
>>
>>   1. Rewrite the generation part of the tooling to use the Service
>>      model instead of the wsdl. This would involve using the
>>      ServiceFactory to build a ServiceModel and then writing 
>>out class
>>      files from there.
>>   2. Have tools depend on the core for the service model and put each
>>      frontend's generation plugins in the frontend themselves. Moving
>>      the service model to a separate module or common 
>>doesn't make any
>>      sense whatsoever because we still need to depend on the
>>      ServiceFactorys which are in the frontend, so there will be a
>>      dependency on core.
>>   3. Add SOAP 1.2 support to the SoapBindingFactory
>>   4. Add WSDL 2 support to the core (WSDL2ServiceBuilder, etc)
>>   5. Do this refactoring in a tools2 module. While I don't anticipate
>>      that this is a lot of work, this will help us get around the
>>      circular dependency issues and allow us to temporarily 
>>break a few
>>      things.
>>   6. Extra credit: use the CodeModel from Sun instead of our own.
>>      Having our own creates unnecessary work and it is also 
>>too tied to
>>      JAX-WS to be useful outside of it. If you look at JAXB, a whole
>>      host of plugins have arose partly because they use this 
>>code model
>>      that anyone can plug into. As its really not a lot of 
>>work to use
>>      it instead of our, I think we should.
>>
>>I think we can do this relatively easily and its not as big a deal as 
>>people are making it out to be. The Celtix tooling is good, 
>>and I don't 
>>want to rewrite it all, I merely want to evolve it.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>- Dan
>>
>>-- 
>>Dan Diephouse
>>(616) 971-2053
>>Envoi Solutions LLC
>>http://netzooid.com
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>  
>


-- 
Dan Diephouse
(616) 971-2053
Envoi Solutions LLC
http://netzooid.com







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