Message text written by Neil Francis
>I can't see an issue here. This is just a central database of people who
hold firearms in the UK. If someone can tell me this is any different than
me being on a central database for having a driving licence, national
insurance number, a visa card with Barclays, a building society account
with the Halifax and a hundred other national databases we are all on
please do. If you object to having your details held on a database then
fine - but if you accept this as a way of modern life I can't see any real
difference between a Firearms certificate database and any of the above.
>Having a central register of everyone who owns a firearm, open to the
police on demand and
>maintained by them without any sort of warrant or judicial oversight is
certainly illegal under >even the most casual interpretation of human
rights legislation.
I'm confused - you will have to elaborate. This would be purely
administrative wouldn't it? If someone changes address, sells a firearm,
renews a cert - it would just be reflected here. The usual access rights
would apply here as in any other database system. Based on current posts to
the list anything to improve efficiency in FAC renewals etc is to be
welcomed. I have moved to 4 different constabulary areas in 10 years - it
seems to be a painful process at the moment.
<
There are two major differences, (a) it is required by law and
(b) the police control it.
Remember this is not just a database of certificate holders, it is
a database of anyone who has ever held one or applied for one.
The application forms don't just ask for your name and address, they
ask for your GP's details, sensitive personal information on
convictions and mental health and so on, and all this will be available
to any copper anywhere in the UK at the press of a button with no
oversight.
In addition, if the police attempted to use the information in any
sort of criminal prosecution (which presumably is the whole purpose
of making it available to any copper), the system effectively removes
the right of a person not to incriminate themselves.
There was a US Supreme Court case that resolved that it was a violation
of the fifth amendment to require a person convicted of a criminal
offence to register his guns, because to do so violates the right
against self-incrimination. Article 6 of the ECHR is based on
the fifth amendment.
Article 6 also requires an independent judicial appeal process when
a person is deprived of civil rights for any reason. This is why
the appeals process in the Northern Ireland firearms order is illegal.
It won't be very difficult to attack this system.
In most countries they have an independent agency do the job of
licensing and registration, and the police can only get access
to the information via a warrant or some sort of due process.
Think about driving licenses - an independent agency is responsible
for it, and the information kept is nowhere near as sensitive.
Records of driving offences are kept by the police, not the DVLA,
they have no general list of everyone who holds a driving license
or who ever did.
At a bare minimum it violates numerous privacy rights to have the
police in control of personal information like this, with free
access to it.
Steve.
