From: SSAA, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3/5/2000 Senator QUIRKE --In written answers provided to the committee following the last hearing, there was an outline of the number of unauthorised discharges of weapons by ADF personnel in East Timor. Can you tell me how many of those or what proportion were accidental and how many were deliberate? Air Cdre Clarke --Since Operation Warden started in East Timor, there have been 71 incidents specifically in Operation Warden and another four since UNTAET, which has Australian forces, has taken over. Of those, two only were deliberate discharge of the weapon in an unauthorised way and the re- mainder were acci- dental. Senator QUIRKE --Will there be any change to weapons training as a result of lessons learnt in East Timor? Air Vice Marshal Treloar --Each of the units, as formed units, when they go to East Timor go through a force preparation unit. They go through their own unit training before and then are dispatched to East Timor. The training is continually reviewed and is considered adequate to the task. The difficulty that comes in East Timor is the type of activity that is being conducted in terms of the operational threat--factors such as fatigue, long working hours, and general awareness of the situation. I guess then it comes down to a failure to concentrate on the task at hand. Each of these unauthorised discharges have been in an administrative sense--they have been clearing, loading or unloading a weapon. When the force itself gets into East Timor, it is fully trained. It is the consequence of adjusting to the general operational environ- ment. Senator QUIRKE --I want to come back to that in just a moment, but are there any other disciplinary actions being taken against personnel because of unauthorised discharges? Air Vice Marshal Treloar --Yes, each unauthorised discharge is investigated and disci- plinary action is taken at the unit level. It would vary depending upon the severity of the discharge, where it happened, if it was carelessness and also relates to the level of responsibility the individual holds within the unit. Senator QUIRKE --You said there were 71 unauthorised discharges--possibly it was Air Commodore Clarke who said that--and 69 of them were accidental. Air Cdre Clarke --That was during the Operation Warden period. Since INTERFET finished and UNTAET took over, there have been another four accidents as well. So the total is 75 for East Timor operations--71 in the INTERFET period and four in the UNTAET period. Senator QUIRKE --How many of them have led to disciplinary charges? Air Cdre Clarke --Each one of those. Senator QUIRKE --Every one? Air Cdre Clarke --Every one. Senator QUIRKE --I would have thought that was a high number. Air Vice Marshal Treloar, you said a moment ago that the weapon itself was quite often discharged when being loaded or unloaded. Is there some deficiency in this weapon or is it one of training? Have we got a problem with this weapon? Air Vice Marshal Treloar --The people who operate the weapon say no. They say it is an awareness of the situational environment they are in and the handling of the weapon itself. It is the person who is holding the weapon. Senator QUIRKE --One of the other bits of information that has come our way is that 6RAR will not be taking the Steyr up there and in fact will be carrying M16s. Is that right? Rear Adm. Ritchie --I can address that, Senator. That article is in fact misleading. It re- fers to 4RAR and in fact 4RAR will be deployed to East Timor with Steyr rifles. The M4 is what I think they were actually talking about, which is another later version of the M16. It is being issued to 4RAR in some numbers as part of its conversion to a commando unit. That is a weapon of choice for that type of operation, but in the regular infantry role they will be equipped with the Steyr and that is what they will take to East Timor. Senator QUIRKE --Obviously, we do own a collection of American weaponry that is part of the general kit for our deployed troops. Are we now going over to the improved 5.56 round? Is that one of the other reasons for the American rifle or is the Steyr quite capable with the improved round? Are we using the improved round? Rear Adm. Ritchie --The main reason for the M4 is that it is a modular rifle and you can put all sorts of attachments on it in terms of sights and things like that. CHAIR --I think Brigadier Wallace might like to make a comment. Senator QUIRKE --He always answers my difficult questions. Brig. Wallace --You have been pretty easy on me so far, Senator. As has been said, the article the other day was quite misleading. It was misleading in that the main theme was to suggest that the Steyr was inadequate. That is not the case at all. It supposed that that was proven by the fact that we were buying the M4 rifle. As the admiral has said, the reason that we are buying the M4 rifle is we are going to be giving it to the commandoes. We already have 150 of these weapons in SASR, which is another special forces unit. Generally speaking, a special forces unit needs a weapon which is able to be collapsed smaller and is able to hang more gear off it. That is because of the nature of the means by which the soldiers have infiltrated into an area of operations, such as freefalling or diving, which requires a weapon that you can carry easily. Because they operate alone in small groups, we generally try to give them the advantage of an overmatch in the personal weapons that they have by giving them a weapon that can have more things appended to it. So that is the rea- son for going for the M4 carbine. It has nothing to do with any inadequacy in the Steyr. Senator QUIRKE --It is a cheaper rifle than the Steyr, isn't it? Brig. Wallace --I am sorry, I could not answer that. I could take that on notice if you like, but I am not aware of that. -- The AUG is just as short, especially with the carbine barrel and the A2 model is just as easy to mount accessories on as well. The bit about ADs during loading is highly amusing - the magazines on the AUG are made from transparent plastic! The main advantage the M4 has is a vastly superior trigger pull and it can be fired off either shoulder without messing with the bolt. The problem with the AUG going bang when you don't want it to is partly a result of the crossbolt safety, as it is easier to accidentally press a button than flick a switch (as on the SLR and M4). The other problem I have heard about the AUG is that on extended full-auto fire the gas plug can blow off the barrel. Buy some H&K G36s and be done with it! 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