From: "Shawn Duffy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > While I disagree with the phrase "revenge only becomes justice if carried out by the State" and I certainly don't agree with everything ever written in a Crypto-Gram, I must disagree with your evaluation of Mr. Schneier's editorial. Specifically, the phrase "why the state can NOT be just"... Please tell me why...
[Mark] The state must have two characteristics, or it's a private company: 1) compulsory taxation, and 2) a legal monopoly over the use of power in a certain geographic area. That is, it has the "legal right" to steal and kill, a right which individuals don't have. (They can buy it, but it has to be granted by the state.) It must also have a monopoly over the creation / enforcement of laws, which individuals are forbidden from doing. In having these characteristics - which it must have BY NECESSITY, if it is to be a state and not a private defense agency - it is automatically injust; it applies different rules to individuals, depending on whether they are acting as state agents or not. (Note: it's not enough for someone to be a state employee to be able to steal with impunity; but if he is acting as a state agent when stealing, then he is NOT legally guilty of theft.) > or better yet, how do you define "just"? [Mark] A simple way would be "same laws (legal rights, although I don't like the term) for all people". > perhaps, I am living in a dream world, but, if you live in the United States, then we DO still have control over what the State does... [Mark] And I DO have some bridges to sell... just send me your bank account number and SSN... (Btw, believing this only makes you a *willing* accomplice to your government's actions.) > bring on the naysayers, and the people who cry about corruption and conspiracy... but the fact still remains, that what the people want, the people can have... [Mark] Definitely. Most people want to steal, apparently. > if they want it bad enough... the problem is that the people don't want it bad enough anymore.. the apathy is sickening... who's fault is that? [Mark] Apathy is not the problem. Supporting murderers and thieves is. But this is unrelated to my point. > as for the State having "NO motivation to be fair"... please support this... [Mark] There's an entire economic school - the public-choice school - devoted to this. As someone's sig in cypherpunks says (very approx. quote), politicians don't (and shouldn't) do the right things because they're good guys... they will only do it when they know that otherwise they'll be shot or hanged. Since they aren't (also a recent observation made by someone on cypherpunks), they don't have any incentive to be fair. > instead of getting on your soapbox to bitch and moan about how unfair things are, why not start makings things fair... [Mark] Watch out, you might begin to sound like Tim May... who believes that a good way to do that would be to nuke Washington, D.C. I can't say I disagree with him there. Mark
