John, I don't discourage your comments such as this. Caution must always be employed. But as Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". Cypherpunks sometimes talk about 'scary' subjects. Imagine if, hypothetically, Phil Zimmerman (who created PGP) had been a Cypherpunk list member in, say, 1990. (Yes, I know the list didn't exist until 1992...) Suppose he had said, "Gee, somebody could write a program using RSA algorithms, that even the NSA couldn't crack!" <insert Beavis and Butthead laughter.> Then, another list member could say, "Well, somebody else could post it on a U.S. website, and it could be downloaded by a person in a foreign country!" <insert more Beavis and Butthead laughter> And a third listmember could chime in: "And thereby crypto could be exported, ILLEGALLY, and nobody would know who did it!" <insert still more Beavis and Butthead laughter>. Similar kinds of discussions could be imagined about the development of thwarting the Clipper chip, imagining AP or (now) 'Sanjuro's 'AM', designing Bitcoin, or about setting up a Silk Road-type website, or anything else that somebody might consider provocative.
All of the persons reading the CP list need to learn about the 1969 Supreme Court case, Brandenburg v. Ohio. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._ohio Text of that case at: http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/395/444/case.html Talking about a crime, and even openly advocating its commission (with the exception of 'imminent lawless action') is generally considered protected by the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. That said, I generally make it a rule not to "openly advocate the commission of a crime", mostly because government investigators and even prosecutors may not be aware of the rights described in the Brandenburg case: Or, a prosecutor may PRETEND to not realize that such open advocacy is not, in itself, beyond 1st Amendment protection, at least not until he has already obtained a search warrant, investigators have planted evidence, made an arrest, etc. But, over time, I believe that we (and all other citizens) should come to regularly use all the Constitutional protections we have, in part to ensure that some of us aren't victimized by using a seldom-used right. Jim Bell For a comedic take on this theme, see: http://reason.com/blog/2013/06/12/nsa-anti-surveillance-suggestion-operati “Operation Everyone Talk Like a Terrorist All the Time” ---------------------- From: John Young <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 1:39 PM Subject: Re: 'Jury Booty' and Anti-prosecution tactics. (Was Re:) Maybe Tim May is channeling me, but this talk of messing with authorities on cypherpunks smells like list tampering to bait and ensare really dumb newbies. Playing games is fine, but running entrapments is against the house rules. That was encouraged in days of old and got jail sentences for susceptibles. Since then agent provocateurs, turn-coats and informants have become a nice-paying online industry and handsome budget inflators for the feds. And has bagged a wad of hackers, daring coders and alleged accomplices, among them: Jim Bell Carl Johnson Aaron Swartz Chelsea Manning Julian Assange Edward Snowden Gottfrid Warg Rop Gonggrijp Brigitta Jonsdottir Jacob Appelbaum Hector Monsegur Jake Davis Ryan Cleary Ryan Ackroyd Darren Martyn Donncha O'Cearrbhail Mustafa al-Bassam Jeremy Hammond Christopher Cooper Joshua Covelli Raynaldo Rivera Cody Kretsinger Lauri Love Neal Rauhauser Keith Downey Mercedes Haefer Donald Husband Ethan Miles James Murphy Drew Phillips Jeffrey Puglisi Daniel Sullivan Tracy Valenzuela Christopher Vo Barrett Brown Ross Ulbricht Andrew Jones Gary Davis Peter Phillip Nash Vladimir Drinkman Aleksandr Kalinin Roman Kotov Dmitriy Smilianets Mikhail Rytikov These are in last few years. Many more in the years before that, some after prison becoming security peddlers, journalists, hacker organizers and for the rest of their lives rats or sent back into the pokey. At least consider being bit more discreet, assholes, and in spare time read Gentlepersons Guide to Forum Spies: http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm
