I don't thnk that self sufficiency works in this world anymore, and less for a country like China. Tinfoil hat apart, T-Bills from the US pay shit, but they keep their value. Inflation is high in China, and keeping it in the bank makes it disappear.
Sean Lynch: > On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 1:00 PM juan <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 14:11:01 +0300 >> Georgi Guninski <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Who owns merica's debt? (And the chinese involvement) >>> >>> This was intended as reply to juan's reply, but deserves >>> another thread. >>> >>> juan claimed the chinese are against 'merica. >> >> Not exactly. I am well aware that the chinese oligarchs are in >> bed with western oligarchs to...various extents. >> >> I said it would be a good thing if russia/china opposed the US, >> but it's not something that's happening to any serious degree, >> I'd say. >> > The Chinese are pro-China, but they recognize that the US is a very large > market for Chinese goods, and for now their economy is built on exports. > Whatever they may think of the US or Europe, our fortunes are tied together > by trade unless/until they decide to become "self-sufficient," which works > both ways. When this starts to happen, war may not be too far behind. > > >>> i thought that the chinese are the main 'merica public debt >>> creditor, >> Which means that the working chinese have been forced by their >> own government to finance the americunt-wall-street financial >> mafia. Good for goldman-sachs. Bad for Mr. Li. >> > Exactly. But yeah, 7%. They may be the largest FOREIGN debt holder, which > I'm pretty sure is what Trump actually means. > > >>> but can't find reference for this on the >>> interwebz. >>> >>> Partial results: >>> >>> CNN [sic] >>> http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/10/news/economy/us-debt-ownership/ | Who >>> owns America's debt? >>> >>> | Donald Trump says he can "make a deal" on America's debt. >>> >>> | Last week, he implied that he could negotiate with America's >>> creditors to get them to accept a lower rate of repayment, such as 85 >>> cents for every dollar. >>> >>> | The top holder by far is U.S. citizens and American entities, such >>> as state and local governments, pension funds, mutual funds, and the >>> Federal Reserve. Together they own the vast majority -- 67.5% -- of >>> the debt. >> >> Governments 'lending' money to themselves, which seems pretty >> absurd, simply means that they keep printing billions out of >> thin air. Need money? Just print it! Isn't socialized banking >> amazing. >> > Yep, just bookkeeping tricks. But yeah, didn't protect the banks back in > the days (1990s) when they weren't allowed to branch across state lines, > were required to hold a large fraction of their debt in their own state's > bonds, and states kept defaulting. And it means a US government "default" > will have interesting consequences. > > >>> | China's share of the debt is sizable -- about 7% -- but it's hardly >>> the largest holder of U.S. government bonds. >>> >>> What do you expect from 'mericuns? They are creditors of >>> themselves, lol. And they "negotiate" paying less... >> >> Yeah, all creditors are equal, but some creditors are more >> equal than others. Some creditors are going to lose more than >> others... >> > Yup. > > >>> Though the chinese give mericuns virtual money, they don't mind >>> stealing from them: >>> >>> >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/15/hacker_gets_46_months_cooler_time_for_shipping_f35_f22_secrets_to_pla/ >>> | Chinese national Su Bin has been sentenced to 46 months jail after >>> admitting his role in stealing information on the Lockheed F-22 and >>> F-35 aircraft, along with Boeing's C-17 cargo plane. >> Stealing from the biggest thieves on the world? =) >> >> >>> | The hacker admitted reports detailing the stolen data were sent to >>> the Chinese People’s Liberation Army General Staff Headquarters. >> > Not even really stealing. The Chinese people already paid for it by keeping > their goods cheap for us 'muricans. They're basically American taxpayers > for all intents and purposes. > > It's hard to blame Trump for believing that the problem with the national > debt is that the US owes a bunch of people money, and therefore the > solution is to negotiate some sort of settlement whereby the US pays less > than face value on its debt. But not blaming him and thinking he's > qualified to be President with such a view are completely separate things. > > The problem is not that the US has too much debt. The problem is that the > US is running out of credit. And by "credit" I mean generically *trust.* No > negotiated settlement can recover lost credit. Quite the contrary; if the > US is going to saber-rattle in order to avoid paying what it's promised to > pay despite having its debts denominated in its own currency, that can only > hurt the US's credit with other countries. > > Debt is also not the only promise the US federal government, to say nothing > of state and local governments, have made that they are going to have > trouble keeping. There's a bunch of other mandatory spending that's growing > every year faster than GDP with no plan to reduce it: pension obligations, > social security, medicare, welfare. 2/3 of the Federal budget is mandatory > spending. Half of discretionary spending would have to be cut in order to > balance the budget. Half of discretionary spending goes to the military. > And of course, huge cuts like that will also cut into revenue, at least in > the short term, while doing nothing to actually reduce the governments' > unfunded liabilities. > > That said, the US is actually in fantastic shape compared to most of the > "developed" world. So interest rates remain low for the US because it's the > nicest house in a really shitty neighborhood. Dark times are ahead for the > entire developed world unless economic growth rates come up quite a bit. > -- http://tornews3zbdhuan5.onion
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