On 09/16/2016 06:28 PM, Razer wrote:
> 
> 
> On 09/16/2016 11:56 AM, grarpamp wrote:
> 
> 
>>
>> For all we know, all these China / Russia attacks are the NSA / CIA or simply
>> US political parties and corporates cracking these boxes through nine proxies
>> and taking a whack back at their opponents in the US.
> 
> This is my take. It makes the nation with the zombie computers look like
> a worthwhile enemy. Hence Russia is being bandied about and the
> no-proof-whatsoever bad guy.
> 
> I want to add a lot of the spying Snowden exposed was
> INDUSTRIAL/INSTITUTIONAL. Imagine the advantage you would have if you
> had a hook on Germany's economy by playing with insider info on their
> markets?
> 
> I say the info is being passed of to that conglomerate of corps
> dedicated to keeping the Internet as 'associates' of the US government,
> clean (I don't remember it's official name) and the whole thing about
> 'russian attacks' is a ruse to hide the fact the NSA is 'bouncing' off
> Chinese or Russian or... computers. Stealing US biz dox, and giving the
> dataz to their corporate bffs to profit from. Just like a mafia. Because
> corporatist governments ARE mafias.

So I'm with you on that.

But also consider that _all_ governments are mafias. But not entirely
unified. There are families, allegiances, conflicts, etc. etc. And that
includes China and Russia. For them all, ideology is just bullshit for
the lower levels, and for the masses.

And further, maybe some of those mafias have families and allegiances
that span multiple countries. Some perhaps run corporations for cover.

By default, I assume that everything we get from public sources is
bullshit and propaganda. Maybe some of the leaks are real, but even
that's hard to know.

> That's my flier, and I'm sticking to it. :>
> 
> Rr
> 
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 5:55 AM, Ben Tasker <b...@bentasker.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I've seen more boxes in China that were very poorly secured than not
>>>
>>> China's
>>> a good place to originate from if your aim is to make it difficult for
>>> anyone in the Western World to trace a connection back to your real location
>>> - at least by legal methods.
>>
>> The NSA GPA likes to think it's operating legally, and due to secrecy and 
>> secret
>> orders and cover and spin and expendables, powers don't give a fuck if it's 
>> not.
>> If whitehat CERT like teams can track stuff on the surface, you can bet govt
>> can do it in the deep.
>>
>> For all we know, all these China / Russia attacks are the NSA / CIA or simply
>> US political parties and corporates cracking these boxes through nine proxies
>> and taking a whack back at their opponents in the US.
>>
>> It's all a game, play on.
>>
> 

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