On 09/26/2016 12:35 PM, Sean Lynch wrote: > On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Razer <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > On 09/26/2016 10:54 AM, Sean Lynch wrote: > > > > > "the UKRAINIANS HAVE ASKED FOR HELP." > > > > > Diem 'asked for help' too! > > Remember? > > Now remember how he was installed. By the US. > > > You claim he was "installed," yet clearly not acting in the US's > interest.
I got to right... there. And I stopped. He just wasn't the right guy for the job so they killed him and installed someone else.Ky, who last I new lived in SoCal, got death threats all the time and didn't understand why... As his ex-ARVN thugs were doing military-style home invasion robberies in the SF Bay area whose victims wouldn't talk to the police, who couldn't protect them and they knew it... Of COURSE he was acting in a manner more suitable to the US. The option was... Horrors! Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh, and the *Terror* of SE Asian Com Com Communism! Rr Why might that be? Perhaps because he wasn't actually > "installed" as people generally think of it, or perhaps because Putin > bought him back from the US? > > So were the Ukraine coup-plotters. Couldn't have done it without the US > State Dept Victoria Nuland, and Soros organizations as point man/Bag > man. After that was all said and done THEN the Pentagon and State > Department cold send SEALS to train the 'Azov Batallion', and other > Neonazi formations that ARE part of the Ukraine military. > > > You say coup, I say revolution. And the Russians call everyone they > don't like Neonazis. I'm sure some of them are, but Russia is not > exactly in a position to throw stones. Neither side is populated with > angels. > > > The methods for overthrowing governments and suppressing the captive > populations haven't changed since the beginning of the industrial > revolution or farther back. They've just been more exposed, so the lies > get thicker. > > The elected government of Ukraine NEVER asked for US assistance. > > > I love your careful phrasing there. I said "Ukrainians" and you > responded with "elected government of Ukraine." Of course the "elected > government of Ukraine" didn't officially ask for assistance. I'm not > sure what "elected" even means in Ukraine, what with 123% of registered > voters turning up in Sevestapol to vote to secede. But as we all know > Russia NEVER interferes with elections. > > The US is not innocent here, but attempting to play Russia off as "the > good guy" or even "better" in any respect other than their vastly lower > capabilities is just laughable. The only thing they have going for them > is that they're not the US and can form a counterbalance. Which is not > exactly a high bar. > > Stop lying. > > > Not particularly helpful language when you're trying to tease apart a > very complex situation. But perhaps that's not what you're actually > trying to do. > > > > Rr > > > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 5:04 PM, Zenaan Harkness <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: > > > > So the US government appears set on complete destruction of > Ukraine. > > Doesn't even make strategic sense at this point. I guess > unless you're > > an essentially evil Western oligarch who wants to carve it up for > > purchase on the cheap, the people, the Russians, and the world be > > damned. > > > > > > USA congress, your insanity and evil is noted. Once again, > your broad > > scale fundamental compromise and therefore essential > illegitimacy, is > > noted by the rest of the world. > > > > Let's see if this is stopped or passed by the USA senate and > president. > > > > > > So what you're saying is that, if you get mugged on the street and the > > mugger has a gun to your head, then any attempt to resist the mugger > > means you are suicidal, and anyone who tries to help you is dead > set on > > your destruction? Great logic, there. > > > > One could just as easily turn this around and say that Putin is > dead set > > on Ukraine's destruction because he won't allow the Ukrainians to > > determine their own destiny. Even if you were to assume that all his > > lies about not sending in Russian troops and equipment (almost > certainly > > engineered to be precisely accurate under a very narrow definition of > > same and only if you squint in the right way) were true, he is > certainly > > encouraging the Russian thugs living there to engage in as much > violence > > as possible. > > > > No, this is Putin's baby. He's set it up so that if he can't have > > Ukraine, nobody will. And the poor Ukrainians are caught in the > middle, > > just as they always have been because of their unfortunate geographic > > situation next to a violent, ultranationalist neighbor. Violent and > > ultranationalist according to Zenaan himself, by the way, who just > told > > us that Putin is the most moderate person the Russians could have > elected. > > > > The US is helping Ukraine because the UKRAINIANS HAVE ASKED FOR > HELP. If > > the situation is truly as you claim it is, then why isn't it just > > "better to die on our feet than live on our knees?" Perhaps the > > Ukrainians are simply tired of living in Russia's shadow and are > > terrified of the strongman the Russians have elected? > > > > As you know, I'm no fan of US foreign policy, but Russia is no better. > > As far as I can tell, you only like them because you hate the US so > > much, and the Russians are the only reasonable counterbalance you can > > think of. I totally agree with you on the need to return to a > > multi-polar world, just not because I think the Russians are any > better > > than the US. They're just DIFFERENT and can force the US to > compromise. > >
