One of the best answers to this oft asked question can be found in Frank Chudorov's, The Rise and Fall of Society. Free .pdf and .epub unavailable at Mises.org
https://mises.org/files/rise-and-fall-society Steve Warrant Canary creator On May 2, 2017 5:40 PM, "jim bell" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* \0xDynamite <[email protected]> > > >That's some good bit o' history. > > It was you who asked the question "Without a State, would we have > electronics? Radio?" > > I proceeded to answer that question, and others. You asked the history > question, I thought the answer was obviousl. > > > I was really referring to the level > of existing order needed to create *more* levels of order. > > That sounds like gobbledygook to me. What do you mean by this? What is > a "level of order"? And why do you (apparently) think that government is > somehow necessary (or even desireable) to act as a driver of technology. > I think the opposite is true. > > > I don't > think it's possible to argue with that. > > Until we actually UNDERSTAND what you meant, how can someone argue? > > > >But I like the sentiment. I think the problem is more than the State. > > What problem? I think "the State" is the problem. > > >It's the pathetic infrastructure that would be an eyesore for > centuries. > > States have been a "pathetic infrastructure" that has been "an eyesore for > centuries. > > Jim Bell > > > > On 5/2/17, jim bell <[email protected]> wrote: > > From: \0xDynamite <[email protected]> > > > >>Without a State, would we have electronics? Radio? > > That's a question which displays a lack of knowledge of technical > history. > > Radio transmission was known as a consequence of Maxwell's equations, > > Maxwell's equations . Heinrich Hertz Electronics can be > traced to > > the "Fleming Valve", Fleming valve the rectifying diode implemented > using > > the Edison effect, which was actually discovered by Frederick Guthrie. > > Frederick Guthrie Shortly afterwards, Lee DeForest Lee de Forest > > added a grid, which made it possible for the "vacuum tube" to oscillate > and > > amplify, leading to radio communications. Radio broadcasting occurred > > BEFORE government regulation: Arguably, the need to allow many stations > to > > share a limited spectrum made such regulation necessary. > > > >>Computers?Computers existed before IC's; I used one, the DEC PDP-7, in > >> 1976-80. But at about $50,000 in 1964 dollars (about $500,000 in > >> today's), the average individual wasn't going to buy one. What we know > >> today as "computers" was primarily the product of the invention of the > >> integrated circuit (IC) by MOSFET - Wikipedia various scientists and > >> engineers. Once the concept of the Integrated circuit existed, and was > >> seen to follow the scaling described by Moore's law (initially, in the > >> 1960's, a doubling of transistors on a chip every 12 months; later in > the > >> 70's and 80's the doubling period lengthened to 18 months, then to 2 > years > >> in the 1990's and later), if one transistor was possible in, say, 1961, > 13 > >> years later 2**13 transistors (8192) was possible, in 1974. So, the > >> development of early microprocessors such as Intel's 8080, 6502, and > 6800 > >> was virtually assured. This was definitely NOT the product of > government! > >> And it would have happened regardless of the "space race" of the 1960's > >> and 70's. > > Also, you didn't mention The Internet. Statists are fond of suggesting > that > > the United States government made the Internet possible. Well, no, it > > didn't. During a time in which that government was financing research, > some > > money was spent to develop network interface controllers Network > interface > > controller, which at the time typically fit into a single RETMA 19" rack. > > Not long afterwards, the same thing could have been (and was) > implemented > > by means of more modern IC's. But at that point, "the Internet" (as we > know > > it, or at least knew it in 1995), was still impossible. > > If you still doubt this, consider: Why didn't the Internet as we know it > > today exist in 1980? To me, the answer is simple. The fastest modem in > > common use by consumers at that time was a 300 bits-per-second, Bell 103 > > (different Bell!) compatible. Great improvements followed: 1200 bps in > > about 1981; 2400 bps in 1983, 9800 bps in the early 1990's. Modem I'd > say > > it was the latter, 9600 bps, which really made the modern Internet > plausible > > for the vast majority of the population. So, it was the people who > > developed and built 9600+bps modems that made the Internet (as we knew > it, > > in 1995) possible. > > > >> MassTransit? > > I think most of the New York subway systems were originally privately > > financed and built. Similarly, most railroads. Similarly bus lines. > And > > airlines. > > > >> Bikes? > > > > BTW, you haven't forgotten that powered human flight was first > accomplished > > by Orville and Wilbur Wright, two bicycle mechanics. > >>And if we need a State, what form should it take? > > > > Written into history books as events long past. > > Jim Bell > > > > > > >
