On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 10:17:42PM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 06:27:42AM -0400, grarpamp wrote:
> > On 10/17/19, coderman <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> There are many, many analogies you can draw about a network of this
> > >> type to an ATM (asynchronous transfer mode) network.
> > >
> > >
> > > i'm old enough to remember writing XTI/STREAMS code for ATM networks.
> > > (blast
> > > from the past!)
> > >
> > > ATM CBR SVCs would be a perfect fit for padding schemes, if they existed
> > > for
> > > consumer use :)
> >
> >
> > Telco generated clocked TDM bucket brigades...
> > Suggested for years overlays can still emulate them to good use...
> > full time chaff padding fill all node-to-node links at negotiated maintained
> > rates, displace chaff with wheat as it comes in, reclock and enforce
> > the line contracts, keying, etc at the switchports (overlay nodes).
> > *VC padding requires lots of management overhead and signaling
> > between layers in overlay net to avoid user traffic saturating paths,
> > finding bw routes, etc, forget that. Chaff fill at node-to-node
> > link layer is easier... just as physical link crypto over fulltime fill
> > works in background between switchports (there are proposals
> > for ethernet to do this, embedded PHY instead of aftermarket
> > anti-SPY gadget). Nodes already know what other nodes the
> > upper layer wants to talk to, so they nego fill with them before
> > swapping out lower fill for upper wheat on demand. Tor-like circuit
> > extends in upper layer still works. User traffic in upper layers rides
> > happy till users fill their own circuits they provisioned into the net,
> > no different than tor or any other overlay today.
> If we rely on layers below end-user control, we lose a major element
> of security we're trying to achieve here.
However, when or for which use cases, could we do the following:
- an onion mini route, say nodes ABC
- C does not encrypt outgoing packets at all, routes to [[D]E]F
- F then encrypts to G[H]
Does such a link make sense for any use case?
If it does, no point not using that. Something to think about...
(There is similarity to exit node routing to clear net - but that
second encrypted route FGH above, with the middle route CDEF being
unencrypted (ABC - CDEF - FGH) may well mean possibilities for
greater overall network efficiency with no drawbacks (if we can
identify suitable use cases) - I have to catch my vehemence when
dismissing something too quickly and/or without actual thought, gets
embarrasing.)
> We can begin with low bw links for wheat in the chaff text messages -
> bittorrent floods at all times would kill backbones in a sense -
> that's why unlimited plans ultimately shape.
So, we shape, neighbour nodes shape.
Incentivization:
- Classical "capitalist" incentivization is done with money, or
some obvious fiat surrogate for money.
- Network incentivization can exist in additional ways.
- A user accessing a webserver who is re-serving content addressed
content, may get priority bandwidth from the server.
- User may offer time limited, total re-upload bw and/or upload
count, or some other specified limitation of content re-serving.
- Verifying a user delivers on promise is another conundrum.
- Making "user ID"s costly to produce can disincentivize "gaming"
such incentivization schemes.
- Actual meat space friends have (presumably) natural incentive to
"provide resources, at least within configured limits, to one
another".
- Friends tending to "stay connected longer than otherwise, to
assist my friends who peer with me", improves the aggregate
(global) network experience for everyone;
more nodes per unit time, means:
- more routing opportunities
- more aggregate bandwidth,
- more options to choose from to minimize latency (when needed)
- more aggregate data storage/ caching/ re-serving (if we can
design satisfactory protocols for this)
So incentivizing meat space "identification of friend nodes" should
be a net win for everyone - it's a natural point of natural
incentivization to "better network behaviour".
"Friends collude with one another to help one another,
part of what it means to be friends."
