On 11/15/20, jam...@echeque.com <jam...@echeque.com> wrote: >> On 11/15/20, jam...@echeque.com <jam...@echeque.com> wrote: >>> In order to do anything, you need space to do it in and stuff to do it >>> with, and when many people are cooperating in a space with stuff people >>> are going fight over whose space it is and whose stuff it is. > > On 2020-11-16 08:14, Karl wrote: >> If anybody needs more space, more stuff, or any other kind of help, >> find a way to let the rest of us know. We're working together, we're >> resourceful, and we can find enough for everyone. > > "Why are you excluding us" tends, in practice, to be rapidly followed by > "You don't belong here. If you don't like what we are doing, go build > your own place. > > Soon thereafter followed by a second round of "why are you excluding us". > > Observe how fast the founders get kicked out once they agree to an open > source code of conduct. Similarly, reflect on so many cities and > suburbs now occupied by people who did not build them and cannot > maintain them, as for example the ruins of Detroit, Nasa, and America's > nuclear arsenal. > > In order to get anything done, you have to exclude bad people, and bad > people do not carry an unambiguous label on them, so you have to exclude > people who profile as bad, regardless of the (unknown and suspect) > content of their character.
I don't see any need to exclude _people_. If Karl never posted anything, nobody would mind if he were subscribed to the list. But often it's highly helpful to reduce certain behaviors. In a normal community, this can be done by addressing their reasons. It takes a lot of practice to be able to say all the different translations of "you're cool and important. we're addressing this other concern right now but should have it resolved within a timeframe and capacity. let's make time to make sure your concerns are addressed: I think others have the issue too." It's a lot easier to learn to say that well among people who are already experienced in living that way for a long time, in the same kind of community and culture.
