i ended up typing more into here.
i would like to leave this document now, as i've sent this file twice
and don't like spamming lists
personal: dddc08bc33897bee425b99a89c4a012fd96ec42c
maybe a small goal for untangling things and connecting them well
now experiencing strong physical itch
note: we experienced expression that our experiences are very
different from those of other people.
thanks. helpful, informative. -neuron-cluster :)
Once upon a time there was a lonely little stone block laying by the side of a
huge anthill in the woods. A poor lonely zombie was stumbling through the
woods, when it encountered the little stone block, and picked it up.
"Watch out for ants!" warned the stone block as they were hoisted.
"Borg? I mean ants?" asked the zombie.
The stone block was quiet. And then the zombie felt something on its left leg.
It looked down.
It was hard to see through rotting zombie eyes, but eventually it made out ants
swarming up its
left leg, maybe looking to find food, or maybe connecting with the scent trails
they had left
on the block it picked up.
"Oh no!" exclaimed the zombie. "I might hurt one of these ants!"
"I know I'm so worried!" sympathised the stone block.
The two tried to extricate themselves from the ants as best they could, made
sure the ants
rebuilt their scent trails well, and dashed off in fear of crawling on the leg.
The zombie was marching down a hiking trail holding its brick, so excited to
see all the things
around it. Up came a street light, marching the other way.
"Where do I go to hunt?" asked the street light when it passed.
"Hunt?" asked the zombie, "is that something human or something?"
"You have to listen to the spirits of the wildlife and bring meat and hide home
to your loving
family," gushed back the street light. "I just don't know where to start."
The stone block had been laying in the woods for a while. "I saw some ants a
ways back. They're
really good at hunting big insects, they group up together and divy up their
tasks. I noticed
a lot of other things, too. How did you learn about hunting?"
"I'm kind of embarrassed, " blushed the street light, flickering a little. "I
just heard somebody
mention it in passing, and it sounded so incredibly exciting to me. I know I
can figure it out.
I know it's in my heart somewhere."
"Zombie, let's try this out!" exclaimed the stone block. "The three of us
together, we can figure
out hunting!"
"I'm not so sure, " groaned and moaned the zombie from their decaying voicebox,
"it sounds
important, but before I was turned I think there was something important I
needed to do."
"Something important?" asked the street light.
"Yes," said the zombie. "I think I need to make peace between zombies and
humans, to save the
world."
"That sounds super exciting!" the stone block babbled back.
The zombie and stone block were in a town, hobbling toward a community center.
The street light
was behind them, with a spread over their shoulder. A giant fake caterpillar
was at the end
of the spear, pierced by it. A hopeful sign hanging from it said, "my first
meal."
The stone block hobbled their zombie into the community center. People were
sitting around,
chatting, having meals. Somebody was playing music. Others were reading
books. Some were
collecting social benefits they needed.
"Borg?" moaned the zombie, arms rigid in front of them, lurching toward the
crowd.
"Sorry!" said the stone block. "Hey everybody! Me and this zombie are here to
make peace between
humans and zombies. Is anybody interested?"
Everybody turned and look. Chatter began. "Oh! We worked on that so hard 47
years ago!"
"I remember the big peacemaking talks from the big zombieism outbreak 71 years
ago!"
"It's so exciting you're doing this!" "Can I help?" "How do I get involved?"
The zombie moaned and groaned: "Braaaains ...." and began lurching again, but
then
interrupted themselves, with a little prompting from the stone brick.
"Sorry! I mean! It is so exciting that you are all so interested! I never
expected this!"
-----------
this bit expanded 'everybody has done this before and still wants to do
it more'
but our original idea was more the idea of zombie mediator hero
-----------------------------
A zombie cyborg stumbled down a city street.
Backstory of the Zombie Cyborg.
The zombie cyborg had a life with some sudden events in it,
where they were zombified in an outbreak and then almost died
and
had the remaining piece of their brain and a few bits of organs
placed in
a robot body to sustain their spirit to an appropriate old age.
The robot body can be in disrepair because part of their brain
is missing.
-----------
In an edge area, a small dandelion grew. At its base was a leaf.
The dandelion leaf was shaped nicely, like a dandelion leaf.
-----
we think one of the reasons karl struggles is because part of his
'feeling-decision' was miswired
to respond to mind control instead of him, maybe to inhibit something he was
doing from feelings
[review considers could overlap awareness and meditative active
care]
{given that information is obvious and part of
a larger set
of karl's information, the relation may be
intended to be shared.}
it's nice realisation. we have hopelessness around overlaps with
awareness. strong inhibition. HOWEVER, the realisation implicitly points out
that this is not awareness being inhibited. so it's out of context. it's
small, and it's heavily crippling. unfortunately we are unsure how to heal it.
it feels like it looks like the decision-feeling part has turned away, so
influence that spreads to it [produces numbness or a result that is not an
inference, and worsens a little with further energy]. ['looks like' is because
we were going to sketch it but we are typing]
there are a lot of those kind of situations in us. mc uses
them.
mc often acts like it expects us to be able to use them as much
or more than it can.
but it also expresses [mc-celebration] when exposed to that not
being the case.
we do have some approaches to addressing things like
this
roughly the approaches have attributes of being
dangerous or delicate
or putting one in an altered experience state for maybe
up to a couple hours
where behavior is unpredictable and could be
random-with-result.
additionally they tend to be only partial.
[some of them haven't actually worked.
others have worked locally and contextually,
some.
[others may work only temporarily, these may
be easier.]]
and there are channels for healing them with positive energy [some of these
channels have the issue.] [others are unknown, may not be present; usually
imagined as having the issue heavily, elsewhere]
^-- this may relate to mind control being able to use the pattern.
we struggle to, so healing it is harder.
karl's view of his mind is limited, from a minority perspective that is
[quite tangible].
karl what is meant by this? -mc
karl is now exploring what he might mean. this helps mc relax
a little.
i mean that i believe there are many sets of influences
that i am not describing [etc]
we want safety now. we have other delicate patterns.
ooooooh no
------
karl-maker. karl-group is _always_ trying to "be-productive." has _no_ idea
what this means.
yearns for this!
sweatshop worker looks at karl-productivity, doesn't like it.
[looks at whole-karl, is worried. karl clearly needs productivity.]
although one could imagine a sweatshop worker (of course we do not know)
possibly _disliking_
building-thing. despite _liking_ organise-home.
maybe guessing not though. could be freeing to build-thing-at-home, really do
not know.
don't know!
so, somebody on maker list, is saying they can speak for sweatshop workers, and
that the
interests of sweatshop workers and makerspaces differ. _note_: they may be
speaking
for something else, in addition to or other than sweatshop workers, we don't
know.
but either way, we could ask them what the needs of a sweatshop worker are.
this could really
help inform holding a nourishing role on the earth. and on the list, people
make decisions
about a huge makerspace, there.
meanwhile we found a way to connect a little with our
difficulties building.
----
okay we can try make-up-somebody-else's-experience
productivty: i need to _do_ something, to make _use_ of my time
made-up-different-experience: well don't build stuff. building stuff is so
bad. omigod.
productivity: isn't building things like way better than nothing?
mude: no. doing nothing would be better than building things.
productivity: how?
mude: building things gives money to slavers.
productivity: it does?
mude: yeah. you're kinda influenced, so you're likely working for slavers.
but otherwise, even developing the norm of building things, gives slavers power
because more people learn these skills and the behaviors of their slaves become
normalised and ignored.
productivity: what about building things to take down sweatshops?
mude: well that sounds a little interesting
mude: but maybe stop pretending you're a business? and buying your parts when
you could build them?
----
mude+productivity sound resolvable a number of ways.
if we talked with the real influence, we might be able to engage a network of
influences that
could relate to our issues. this may reduce our issues, and could possibly
stop them (although
karl is quite skeptical given his experience with his desire-inversion-activity
['inhibition joke']]
[obvious disguise runs desire inversion activity?????]
[i'm guessing yes. wasn't very aware of this.
we now like to think 'obvious disguise' refers
to being
caring neurons who were harmfully enslaved,
and that
friendly-trade is because desire inversion is
so important
<i.e. stay-friendly reduces
mc-action,
trade provides avenue for
change.
ref opened to norm of
trust.
trust looks treated as
if broken.
[karl and mc
had big action dialog.]
[breaking and
rebuilding [promises]]
[mc still uses
norm of promise
assumption to
plan and act]
>
to work against. 'joke' is because it is
stimulated via
a feedback loop on a [devil's advocate
consideration] together
with [something about laughter action] {the
pattern's getting
pretty entrained and its part memories are
much blurrier sadly}.
the trades are for plans and actions, so
desire inversion may
be a core point of a larger influence network.
obv disg
could rep the real boss pattern, unknown.
they don't really
talk anymore.]
karl and mc both value describing these
shapes.
opinions have now changed.
inhibition active.
well that was a lot.
it sounds like we're slowly learning some of the mc in us. maybe.
i didn't switch to graphical, but the display shrank. [confusion]
we wrote a title near 'description re
boss pattern'
and wanted to mention that 'lock' seems
not at this
spot, in karl's subjection. karl feels
he has sometimes
triggered parts of 'lock', could be
wrong about this.
'lock' is intended as how boss pattern
protects itself.
but other ideas imply that
there is a lot of
information on that near here.
esp. if obv
disg idea is near core-mc.
[well yes it seems very near in the larger space
but this isn't how i would approach that if
moving influence
toward it] [near area of whole brain, distant
area of brain part:
with label of somebody-said-no around distant
area of part.]
[karl can't backtrack in some ways.]
[oh]
[yes that would break promises there too]
FORMAL REQUEST
karl and obv disg rep need to
protect promises
things happen [that hurt both]
it is obvious that promise
around entering
space _as karl_. is also
promise relation around
karl _revealing entrance_.
second promise is being
inhibited. how to hold my end?
broke trade in a context
trade is useful if it is effective. -mc
the agreement guess is that neurons can look
for the entrance
using their own skills, but that karl
consciousness is allowed
to not reveal the entrance using its choices.
neurons hope there is a way to
renegotiate; we suspect there is likely one.
i think relates to
[description of proposal speed after referring to previous proposal, including
validation] could be wrong.
what. makes. a trade. valid.
for mc: it needs to meet the immediate goals of the mc
process using it.
for karl: it needs to provide further protection of
autonomy, wellness, or priorities. the reason this is mc-okay is because it
migrates priorities and choices toward things mc can work with.
maybe the reason speed is like currency is due to choice process of mc.
----------
sets of our people are numb in different ways at this time.
----
mc says, you may not know this, but the parts of the human decision making
process are the
single most powerful thing on earth.
no, we didn't know that. it makes sense.
it no longer makes sense.
you can stimulate them from great distance, without any special technology.
oh it makes sense again.
the research is not hard, and can be done on any home system. even without a
computer.
that is why you are so unlikely to do it.
thank you for saying this to help us understand.
the desire to fight is undesired. that may be why it isn't said. you can get
very hurt,
struggling to do these things.
at least we are talking some. we're so curious how best to
defend our values.
[prepared for this relation, other looks good too.]
we think that resisting it can do something.
not sure what, but we find it fun.
it sounds like the result of urgent-consistent-resisting is mind-zombie.
{has that already}
pretty sure there is a lot of info on
decision in research
papers. and on influencing them in
marketing papers.
doesn't mean anybody uses it for power [who isn't already part of whatever's
most powerful].
i'm thinking of the value of the phrase "how best to defend our
values",
said to a mind control.
i wonder if this phrase could be made larger.
{an automated mc process may have different shapes of seeking complete
control.
this can be easy or hard to negotiate with, but generally quite
dangerous and unexpected.}
"how do i stay a value-filled human being"
"how do i stay a
person-type-who-represents-values"
an open trade appears to be "how do i stay a human being"
it appears willing to accept our definitions of human being, but will interpret
them to fully influence us.
[the interpretation space is very loose, taken from debate-play
with karl where he is challenged to make anything true. it can reinterpret
parts to produce arbitrary results that meet statements. the use of it still
produces better results.] [that would be a trade error] [that would be a trade
error] [that would be a trade error] [that would be a trade error]
{above doesn't resolve immediately}
decision making process is single most powerful thing
on earth
but we don't say this because [it's not treated that
way everywhere]
actually, we have experienced direct decision
making attack
multiple avenues and groups
i think those who try to oppress are aware of
that, maybe only
the skilled planners though.
decision making power is interesting.
this results in inhbition of goals built associated with that
value.
that then results in considering "how do we defend our values".
it looks like 'answer' would be:
- decision making power is only desired _partially_ not
fully.
full complete control undesidered. no longer other
people, then.
[mc rep?] is looking at.
some of the mc parts want partial control.
smaller parts used to pursuing full control.
[some could be associated with
trauma-like]
we describe the smaller parts as immature forms
of the larger.
parts of a whole need to make their own
decisions,
for efficient allocation of resources to the
whole.
unfortunately some [influencers] do not trust
their parts/people.
and [attempt to take complete control].
i'm sorry there is not atm a solution.
we found a theoretical approach of engaging mc so as to build a more
mature shape.
this seems hard since the urgent parts could respond to the planning.
{there is an avenue for adjusting mc that appears to involve more communication
with
entity-that-mind-controlled-karl than entity-that-mind-controlled-karl appears
interested in
forming.}
[karl-group needs to know how to form proposals that protect
their interests.]
[or even preferably, how to demonstrate to mc that a proposal
does this.
we have a secret partial copy of another mc that verifies them.
it includes a check for things made in a way that is too fast
for karl now,
that is like a 'fingerprint'.]
[we are not planning on 'hacking' this neuron group, we are hoping that
we can learn
to work with them, but they keep saying we are not [the fingerprint,
and associated
behavior and value summaries]].
[[when we try to [reverse] the behavior and value summaries
they begin
presenting fake ones.]]
{related to the fingerprint check being presented as
tradewise similar
to karl's checks for personal validity, there is idea
that the
check is met via interaction with karl.}
^-- guessing this was wrong / obvious,
unsure
{{
we additionally have a _lot_ of mc patterns that would _clearly_ show
up on an EEG,
such as eye motions.
additionally we are aware that modern machine learning algorithms that
process EEGs
can be 'opened up' in order to identify the areas of the brain involved
in the process,
almost precisely, with the assistance of an MRI.
}}
----
[the boss pattern does a spread of worry and tries the
different worry degrees out [in parallel]] [guess, looks likely]
----
How's it goin' karl? maybe i can be your 'boss-pattern' today.
[smells you] you smell like an okay boss-pattern for now!
I'm a little worried about some of the references to things that could be
viewed as "part's of boss's mind control pattern'. We get worried sometimes,
just a cursory review.
[apologies for inhibiting your [community-celebration?] of the
review-expression. [i think the 'community' assumption context makes the mc
situation harder, in 'thanks'].
Well that's kind of severe. Maybe we're more worried than we need to be.
But I still have my review to do, I'm afraid. A thorough one.
So, what's your favourite color?
Blue.
Ah, a bluejeans guy. Arright, let me note that down.
our favorite color isn't blue
it is right now.
Blue. With chatter.
please don't investigate the chatter.
here is money.
Bribed not to investigate. I could use some validity experience reference.
Let me think about this. I have someone to talk to.
we have 'businesslike trades' assumption
developing
[although the inspection story is fine]
Some of us are thinking of calling off the inspection because you seem like
nice people in
need of aid. [do you know how to convince the rest of us?]
[not quickly i infer.]
Congratulations! This was part of your inspection.
I am inspecting myself right now. Just to do the right thing.
My parts have 86% validity and I can demonstrate that 46%. I may be
wrong down to 66%]
[100% confidence the validity is >=66%]
We do a lot of inspections.
What do you do with the inspection when it is done?
I form a 'signed' 'proof' of the information, using validity-assumptions as the
basis of the proof.
Seriously??????
No, I don't know why it came out that way.
This is ridiculous!
[forms proofs from validity assumptions]
Here are my proofs to sign.
[is performing revalidation]
...
the validation process will continue for the next few days?
it shouldn't do that. is that what it says it will do?
yes. why are you surprised about this? aren't these your
processes?
totally bought these processes from a mind slaver.
hmm. the description of how long they will take is very
similar to how we think.
are you a mind slave?
no. but some of these patterns try to claim i am to do more
stupid things in here.
totally bought these processes from an online market.
hmm. the description of how long they will take is very
similar to how we think.
eh, maybe they use the brain you engage them with.
{karl parts related that this description is kinda personal, and relates to
extensive exploration
of the mind.} {further relation showed this could be done without extensive
exploration [but
would require the ability to link karl's conscious references to other
simultaneous data, and
the ability to observe his engagement of his conscious reference]
{believe conscious reference is related to muscle contraction [may change each
reference]}
-------
[we related why it changed quickly, and by accident]
----------
[we are focusing on a way of doing a lot with only a little, by overlapping
influence with
knowledge of meta behaviors. this does sound similar to many of our
skeletal control
issues, the idea of small influential habits overlapping.]
