At 1:12 PM -0700 4/23/01, Ray Dillinger wrote:
>On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Tim May wrote:
>
>
>>Cf. crypto anarchy.
>
>>Cf. crypto anarchy.
>
>Uh, Tim? I've seen what you mean by "crypto anarchy", and this
>ain't it. I'm talking about a society with laws, order, and
>*orders*. A society where individual people can go to jail or
>go on trial or get drafted into a war against their will if the
>laws requiring that get passed.
You have apparently skipped over all of the discussions of
polycentric law, then. Competing jurisdictions, with protection money
paid. As in "Snow Crash" (one of the books on the reading list). Cf.
Bruce Benson (also on the reading list), and David Friedman (ditto).
>
>The revolutionary and anarchist rhetoric here has masked the
>facts of the matter -- people have been talking about rebellion,
>bomb-throwing, and other acts of defiance and rage, but that's
>not where the path they're pointing at leads.
No, "some people." Some people have asked how to make bombz, some
people have claimed that I, for example, have "Samsons" (whatever
those are...I am assuming missiles of some sort) stored in a bunker
on the East Coast, and some people have debated Bell's AP more
seriously than others.
>In fact, acts
>of rebellion and rage are the single worst possible thing that
>could be done, and will actively prevent a crypto state from
>arising.
>
>Bell's "AP" paper may not have been where the seed came from
>originally, but aside from pointers at some science-fiction
>books with zero technical content and impossible economics
>and cultures, there has been no trace whatsoever of any other
>protocols for replacing government on this list.
Nonsense.
>And even
>Bell's protocol presented in AP is unimplementable on
>technical grounds. I had formally analyze it and discover
>this for myself, because nobody here acknowledged that
>simple fact until I rubbed their damn noses in it.
Nope, also nonsense. Read my own comments from 1995, and the comments
of others at the time, and in the years after. (You once said you
were on the list since the days when Detweiler was active, so you
must either remember these discussions or have saved mail. If not, do
a search...much of the CP list traffic is archived and shows up in
searches.)
The lack of digital money is the main problem. Certain spoofing
attacks are another problem. Several people commented on the
unworkability of Bell's "wonderful idea."
That you are only now concluding this does not mean "nobody here
acknowledged that simple fact until I rubbed their damn [SIC] noses
in it."
>
>I dug through archives for days looking for a glimmer of
>anything actually useful for establishing a working and
>useful government rather than simply tearing one down or
>hiding one's activities from it, and believe it or not
>Bell's paper came closest.
If you think this, then you're a lightweight thinker.
>
>The hell of it is, you (and most of the other list members)
>have been absolutely no help. Whenever I've asked a question
>about whatever I was stuck on at the moment, you've done nothing
>more than sneer. The most helpful thread recently has been
>"the well-read cypherpunk", and just a hint, Tim? the books
>*you* recommended were no damn help. In fact, they were a
>waste of time. The only new ideas there were unworkable
>distractions at best, presented as though they might make
>sense but with impossible requirements both technically
>(missing information) and pragmatically (human nature goes a
>different direction and the whole thing explodes). And of
>the few ideas that don't suffer these problems, there's
>either no hint of how to actually implement nor any proof
>that an implementation is possible, or they're ideas I'd
>already had.
As I said, you're a lightweight.
--Tim May
--
Timothy C. May [EMAIL PROTECTED] Corralitos, California
Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon
Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go
Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
