Duh! Why don't you ask the pope to prove god exiests? WTF do you mean >by "authentic" anyway? That has to be patently one of the most stupid >statements I've ever seen on this list. If someone says they worship >Ishtar or Isis or Brighid or Gaia, who they fuck are you to say their >faith isn't "authentic"? Why don't you go about asking christers to >prove they are "authentic"?
Well, I'm probably responsible for introducing the term "authentic", so let me roll with the punches. What I meant was that there's a difference between a set of ancient practices handed down via pagans, and some shyster (ie, Joseph Smith) who somehow gets a hold of some 'secret information' (either via 'revelation' or searching through the stacks at the Strand), and decides to create a tradition, which is then passed off as ancient.
The main reason I say this is that a real "authentic" pagan (or other) tradition was created over the course of hundreds and probably thousands of years. Medical and other knowledge has already passed through a very long sieve, and a large number of individuals contributed to it. WIth "synthetic" traditions, the origin is not only very recent, but occurs with a single individual. Of course, some older beliefs and practices may be restarted, but its not like the kind of detailed body of knowledge that gets passed down verbally is preserved.
As a for instance, that "Iceman" they found up in the alps had on him some herbs which herbalists apparently still use (and some of which do apparently have antibiotic and other properties). So in this sense, the herbalists that have apparently received a real tradition have inherited information developed thousands of years back. THAT'S authentic. The Mormons aren't.
-TD
From: Harmon Seaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Steve Mynott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: Tyler Durden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Silly wiccan, tricks are for kids! Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:45:10 -0600
On Tue, Apr 01, 2003 at 08:17:53PM +0100, Steve Mynott wrote: > Tyler Durden wrote: > > >Well, I think there's an obvious disconnect on this issue. Clearly, > >pre-Christian religious practices survived Christian persecution > >throughout the ages. From the little I know, some of the practicing > >Druids actually have received a nearly unbroken chain of tradition. > > The modern druid traditions, as followed by Willian Blake, only date > back to the eighteenth century. > > There is no unbroken chain of tradition. > > Very little is known about the real pre-Roman druids, since they left no > written traces. The little that is known (mistletoe and oaks) has come > from Roman reports. The Romans also claim the druids burnt livestock > and humans alive in huge wickermen.
Human sacrifice quite often "reported" by the powers that be who are trying
to destroy the credibility of other religions. The Romans were, by all accounts,
into a heavy persecution of druidry, not just in Britain, but all of Europe. The
catholic church "reported" widespread human sacrifice in the americas as well.
> > I doubt these practices would survive unnoticed in most modern European > societies.
A lot of the "blood sacrifice" and "sacrifice of virgins" has been
incredibly distorted by ignorant people. There are real blood rituals, but more
often involve menstrual blood, and the menstrual blood of virgins being
especially powerful. There are also the sexual "sacrifices" of virginity in many
pre-christer religious traditions around the world -- no killing involved.
> > >But the fact that "Wicca" (as the movement is known today) does not > >necessarily represent anything authentic doesn't mean that authentic > >practicing pagans don't exist today (which was Harmon's main point, I > >believe). > > The burden of truth lies with you and Harmon to prove authentic pagans > exist.
Duh! Why don't you ask the pope to prove god exiests? WTF do you mean by
"authentic" anyway? That has to be patently one of the most stupid statements
I've ever seen on this list. If someone says they worship Ishtar or Isis or
Brighid or Gaia, who they fuck are you to say their faith isn't "authentic"? Why
don't you go about asking christers to prove they are "authentic"?
> > Given that, again, virtually nothing is known about pagan practices your > proof would be quite impossible.
Which pagan practices? And you know that how? You've gone around the world
investigating indigenous religions past and present? Perhaps you'd like to
explain to us how Shinto, for example, isn't a "known" practice. Or the various
African or South & Central American traditions -- or NA for that matter.
-- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
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