On Mon, Mar 31, 2003 at 10:09:17PM -0600, Kevin S. Van Horn wrote:
> Harmon Seaver wrote:
>
> >>And what makes you think things would have been any better in the
> >>absence of Christianity?
> >
> >You've heard of the Inquistion perhaps?
>
>
> The Catholic Church (which carried out the Inquisition, in cooperation
> with various governments) is not the whole of Christianity. There are
> also the Orthodox churches, the Protestant denominations, and various
> other branches.
Duh! The witch-burnings carried out by the protestants was just another part
of that holocaust. As is the persecution of wiccans and other pagans today,
primarily conducted by protestant fundy christers.
>
> Furthermore, you haven't given any evidence that what happened in Europe
> was any worse than what has happened under countless tyrants the world
> over. Nor do you account for the crucial role the Christian religion
> played in abolishing slavery.
If you read the history, there were just as many christer theologists and
ministers arguing *for* slavery as there were against.
>
> >Or the War On Some Drugs, the modern inquisition?
>
> You won't find a prohibition against using drugs, nor a requirement to
> persecute those who use them, anywhere in the Christian scriptures.
>
Granted, but the entire christer establishment is behind the War On Some
Drugs. And, if you take a look at the history of that war, and the War On Some
Relgions carried out in this hemispere from 1492 onward, guess who promulgates
it?
> >Any monotheistic religion is by definition exclusive
>
> Exclusive as to what they consider proper object of worship, yes.
>
> >persecutorial of others.
>
> "By definition persecutorial" is bullshit.
>
How so? If there is only "one god" and "one way", then all others are wrong,
and need to be stamped out. Christer proselytizing and missions are by
definition persecution of others. In the US, for example, the christers got the
government to even totally forbid native americans to practice or teach their
religions. The massacre at Wounded Knee was to stop a religious ceremony, for
example.
> I am no longer a religious person of any sort myself, but I know from
> personal experience what real-life Christians are like,
Oh, so do I.
> as opposed to
> the cartoon caricature you seem to carry in your head. I've experienced
> both the good and the bad.
> Do you have any real experience with
> Christians, as opposed to the stereotypes promulgated on TV and in the
> movies by bigoted screenwriters and producers?
>
Ah yes, as a matter of fact. I was a fundamentalist for a good many years,
member in good standing (probably still am, for that matter, AFAIK) of the
Assembly of God church. Babtized in the Spirit, speaking in tongues, the whole
bit. I was also involved in a street ministry years ago. And if you checked my
resume on my website, you might notice I have a degree from the UW in religious
studies, with an emphasis on biblical literature.
> One good thing that Christianity and other religions do is instill a
> sense of right and wrong in people and thereby promote adherence to
> basic standards of conduct.
Baaahhhaaaahhhaaa ROFL
As Christianity (and religion in general)
> has waned in America, no adequate replacement for this function has
> emerged. Perhaps as a result, American culture no longer values honor
> and honesty.
It never did. The ultra-religious christers who landed at Plymouth Rock
had no compunction against robbing and murdering native americans, or burning
witches. And my forefathers, at least on my father's side, were among them. On
my mother's side were some of the natives getting ripped off.
If you look at early american history, it's pretty clear there was not a
great deal of morality, within or without the church.
(more drivel snipped)
--
Harmon Seaver
CyberShamanix
http://www.cybershamanix.com
