Good evening Cz friends, I haven't read this site for a few days and was literally shocked when I did today. I have been following the Cz List for many years as the widow of a survivor of Transnistria (my late husband Rudy Koenig was born in Cz.) I have also been to Cz many times and visited Mogelov to bring donations to those victims who still live there. In all these years I have never read such a blistering commentary on anyone's work or opinion. I can not understand why Mr. Czakai decided to make his thoughts public, rather than personal to those he chooses to criticize. He did make the offer to go personal after the fact but it is my opinion that he is too late. I found myself thinking along with the lines of that old saying that 'nothing comes of a good cow that gives bad milk.' Almost every sentence starts off positive and has a 'but' in the middle that separates the good from the bad. Cora Schwartz P.S. I correspond regularly with friends in Chernowitz and Sadgura. The current pandemic situation there is truly terrible as one member just noted below. To ask where the money is going these days and to ask for updates to someone like Sasha Wollak who is dedicated to his mission, seems uncalled for. It's easy for us Americans to send money; back-breaking work like that done in Mimi's day should not even be discussed in times like these.
-----Original Message----- From: Czernowitz Genealogy and History digest <[email protected]> To: czernowitz-l digest recipients <[email protected]> Sent: Tue, Mar 23, 2021 12:04 am Subject: czernowitz-l digest: March 23, 2021 Subject: czernowitz-l digest: March 23, 2021 From: "Czernowitz Genealogy and History digest" <[email protected]> Reply-To: "Czernowitz Genealogy and History" <[email protected]> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 00:04:45 -0400 CZERNOWITZ-L Digest for Tuesday, March 23, 2021. 1. Re: New video about the history of the Czernowitz Jewish community and the Czernowitz Jewish cemetery at www.cjcro.org 2. Cemetery Video 3. Re: New video about the history of the Czernowitz Jewish community and the Czernowitz Jewish cemetery at www.cjcro.org 4. Re: New video about the history of the Czernowitz Jewish community and the Czernowitz Jewish cemetery at www.cjcro.org 5. Czernowitz tour ******************************************************************************* This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject of Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions expressed in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not necessarily the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com that includes a searchable archive of all messages posted to this list. To send mail to the list, address it to <[email protected]>. To remove your address from this e-list follow the directions at https://it.cornell.edu/lyris/leave-e-lists-lyris To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to: [email protected] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello Stephen,The Covid 19 situation has been very serious in Czernowitz until the middle of June and we could not find workers for a while.Starting with July we could find a crew which worked through August and September.We managed to spray with herbicides about 70% of the total surface and we also cut the vegetation for more than half the surface.We will try to start early this season provided that workers could be found early enough. Donations for the cemetery project can be made at: https://cjcro.org/donate-2/Thank you for your support.Best,Sasha Wolloch On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 1:51 PM Stephen Winters <[email protected]> wrote: Regarding the cemetary itself, what is happening with clean up in view of covid19 Mimi used to give us updates I think an update as te of activities and how the contributions are being spent would be useful Also please remind us where to remit donations for the cemetery project Thanks to all for the hard work and thoughts Stephen Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 21, 2021, at 8:24 AM, Johannes Czakai <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Dear Mr. Wolloch, > > thank you very much for your response. I am glad we are having a conversation. > > Again, you have my deepest respect and support for your work. I think it is > amazing, I think it is inspiring, I think it is more than important. The > Jewish cemetery in Czernowitz is an extraordinary cultural and historical > landmark and every effort to conserve and to preserve it is priceless. Thank > you for that! > > I did not write my criticism lightheartedly, because I did not want to offend > anyone and I wanted to differentiate between your work and the content of the > video. And there is no doubt that I made that very clear. Therefore I am a > bit surprised and hurt by the personal and insulting tone of your response > (baklava?). I did not write - as you suggest - to show my "erudition". I > received several very positive e-mails from people who found the video > disturbing and supported my criticism. I think you and me agree on many > things and I would be happy to work together on finding our common ground. > > Although I repeat myself: As I said, I never claimed that a video like that > needs to be perfect and academically satisfying. Quite the contrary! It > should be inspiring, and Mr. Lupu's video certainly is. We all make mistakes > and that is fine. But I think we agree that there must be a sensitive > threshold of quality and this particular video crossed it. > > Mr. Lupu has certainly created a good video and I praise his skills. But what > it depicts is simply misleading. The more I think about it, it is less the > historical errors, but the imagery (I speak about the film material, not the > photos): In nine minutes we see a lot of HD footage, but only one (!) actual > shot from Czernowitz (to my knowledge only the aerial shots of the university > are from the city; if there is more I am hapy to stand corrected). The rest > is a collage of imagination, which reproduces stereotypes. Much of that is > kind of fine, because HD videos are more fun to watch than just immobile old > postcards. But when not a single other building, landscape, interior, and > most importantly even any of the gravestones were filmed in Czernowitz and > the viewer is not informed about that, this is more then problematic (again: > the film material, not the photos). Just imagine if I would produce a > documentary about the Jewish quarter in Vilnius and use primarily stock > footage from Krakow, Prague, and Stockholm. The "average viewer" would not > notice, but I find it fundamentally and ethically wrong. > > Although it is just a short video, creating it comes with a certain > responsibility. After publishing it, it serves not only your cause, but other > people will learn for the first time about Czernowitz's amazing Jewish past. > They should not learn mistakes and see images of a fictional and pieced > together city that never existed. Especially in a time, when memory fades, > when historical places of worship are desecrated and turned into cinemas, and > when unique landmarks like the cemetery crumble, even short videos like that > one will raise awareness and help to remember and preserve the Jewish > community's material and immaterial legacy. And I think we agree that this > invaluable task needs to be done as thorough as possible. > > All the best, > > Johannes Czakai > PS: In order to prevent a lengthy discussion in the group, I would be happy > to further discuss the issue directly (if you like). > > -- > Johannes Czakai > Visiting Research Fellow > Franz Rosenzweig Minerva Research Center > Hebrew University Jerusalem > https://rosenzweig.huji.ac.il/people/johannes-czakai > ******************************************************************************* This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject of Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions expressed in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not necessarily the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com that includes a searchable archive of all messages posted to this list. To send mail to the list, address it to <[email protected]>. To remove your address from this e-list follow the directions at https://it.cornell.edu/lyris/leave-e-lists-lyris To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to: [email protected] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have watched the video and read the exchange between Mr. Czakai and Mr. Wollock. I enjoyed the video and it met its intended goal of drawing attention to the Jewish history of Czernowitz and focusing on the importance of the cemetery. It was clear that some of the images were from other places. I don't see any value in scrutinizing all of the details of the film as its intent was not a history lesson. Its intent was to generate interest and preferably action towards assisting the efforts to restore/maintain the cemetery. There is a wealth of information available about the details regarding Czernowitz. A basic Google search of "Jewish Czernowitz" will provide a significant amount of detailed and useful information. I applaud the intent and content of the video. We should encourage those who seek to support efforts to increase and disseminate information about Jewish Czeerowitz. I visited Czernowitz 20 years ago and while I do not have a direct family connection to the city it did provide a sense of the entire region. The cemetery project itself provides inspiration. During that same trip, I also visited Sniatyn. I do have family members buried there. Many of the headstones are in excellent condition, but it is overgrown and is in need of restoration and maintenance. I do not know its current conditions. The Jewish cemetery in Horodenka is in much worse condition. Most of the headstones are in disrepair and a road goes through part of it. It would be wonderful to restore those cemeteries and many others. Not only will restoration provide valuable information, but it will show honor to those who are buried. Rabbi Matt Friedman Communities: Jasienow, Horodenka, Tuleva, Sniatyn IS THIS A PROJECT TO LOCATE TNE BURIAL AREA OF ONES ANCESTORS WHO LIVED IN SADAGORA/CZEDNOWITZ SOME OF WHOM LEFT BEFORE 1945 OR 44 AND SOME OF WHOM LEFT AFTER AND SOME OF WHOM MAY HAVE SPENT THEIR ENTIRE LIVES THERE AND ARE BURIED IN THAT AREA. I FOUND OUT THAT MY PATERNAL GRANDFATHER ND GREAT GRANDFATHER WERE AUTHORES OF BOOKS; SOME OF MY UNCLES MAY HAVE ENDED UIN ISRAEL, I KNOW SOME OF MY ANCESTORS ARE BURIED IN THE JJEWISH CEMETARY ON A LL SIDES OF MY FAMILY' HOW TO OBTAIN INFORMATION HAROLD NISSEN914-723-4533 -----Original Message----- From: SASHA WOLLOCH <[email protected]> To: Stephen Winters <[email protected]>; CZERNOWITZ-L History digest <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, Mar 21, 2021 10:39 pm Subject: Re: [czernowitz-l] New video about the history of the Czernowitz Jewish community and the Czernowitz Jewish cemetery at www.cjcro.org Hello Stephen,The Covid 19 situation has been very serious in Czernowitz until the middle of June and we could not find workers for a while.Starting with July we could find a crew which worked through August and September.We managed to spray with herbicides about 70% of the total surface and we also cut the vegetation for more than half the surface.We will try to start early this season provided that workers could be found early enough. Donations for the cemetery project can be made at: https://cjcro.org/donate-2/Thank you for your support.Best,Sasha Wolloch On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 1:51 PM Stephen Winters <[email protected]> wrote: Regarding the cemetary itself, what is happening with clean up in view of covid19 Mimi used to give us updates I think an update as te of activities and how the contributions are being spent would be useful Also please remind us where to remit donations for the cemetery project Thanks to all for the hard work and thoughts Stephen Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 21, 2021, at 8:24 AM, Johannes Czakai <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Dear Mr. Wolloch, > > thank you very much for your response. I am glad we are having a conversation. > > Again, you have my deepest respect and support for your work. I think it is > amazing, I think it is inspiring, I think it is more than important. The > Jewish cemetery in Czernowitz is an extraordinary cultural and historical > landmark and every effort to conserve and to preserve it is priceless. Thank > you for that! > > I did not write my criticism lightheartedly, because I did not want to offend > anyone and I wanted to differentiate between your work and the content of the > video. And there is no doubt that I made that very clear. Therefore I am a > bit surprised and hurt by the personal and insulting tone of your response > (baklava?). I did not write - as you suggest - to show my "erudition". I > received several very positive e-mails from people who found the video > disturbing and supported my criticism. I think you and me agree on many > things and I would be happy to work together on finding our common ground. > > Although I repeat myself: As I said, I never claimed that a video like that > needs to be perfect and academically satisfying. Quite the contrary! It > should be inspiring, and Mr. Lupu's video certainly is. We all make mistakes > and that is fine. But I think we agree that there must be a sensitive > threshold of quality and this particular video crossed it. > > Mr. Lupu has certainly created a good video and I praise his skills. But what > it depicts is simply misleading. The more I think about it, it is less the > historical errors, but the imagery (I speak about the film material, not the > photos): In nine minutes we see a lot of HD footage, but only one (!) actual > shot from Czernowitz (to my knowledge only the aerial shots of the university > are from the city; if there is more I am hapy to stand corrected). The rest > is a collage of imagination, which reproduces stereotypes. Much of that is > kind of fine, because HD videos are more fun to watch than just immobile old > postcards. But when not a single other building, landscape, interior, and > most importantly even any of the gravestones were filmed in Czernowitz and > the viewer is not informed about that, this is more then problematic (again: > the film material, not the photos). Just imagine if I would produce a > documentary about the Jewish quarter in Vilnius and use primarily stock > footage from Krakow, Prague, and Stockholm. The "average viewer" would not > notice, but I find it fundamentally and ethically wrong. > > Although it is just a short video, creating it comes with a certain > responsibility. After publishing it, it serves not only your cause, but other > people will learn for the first time about Czernowitz's amazing Jewish past. > They should not learn mistakes and see images of a fictional and pieced > together city that never existed. Especially in a time, when memory fades, > when historical places of worship are desecrated and turned into cinemas, and > when unique landmarks like the cemetery crumble, even short videos like that > one will raise awareness and help to remember and preserve the Jewish > community's material and immaterial legacy. And I think we agree that this > invaluable task needs to be done as thorough as possible. > > All the best, > > Johannes Czakai > PS: In order to prevent a lengthy discussion in the group, I would be happy > to further discuss the issue directly (if you like). > > -- > Johannes Czakai > Visiting Research Fellow > Franz Rosenzweig Minerva Research Center > Hebrew University Jerusalem > https://rosenzweig.huji.ac.il/people/johannes-czakai > ******************************************************************************* This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject of Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions expressed in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not necessarily the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com that includes a searchable archive of all messages posted to this list. To send mail to the list, address it to <[email protected]>. To remove your address from this e-list follow the directions at https://it.cornell.edu/lyris/leave-e-lists-lyris To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to: [email protected] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject of Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions expressed in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not necessarily the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com that includes a searchable archive of all messages posted to this list. To send mail to the list, address it to <[email protected]>.To remove your address from this e-list follow these directions.To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to: [email protected] <!--#yiv4806276813 _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv4806276813 #yiv4806276813 p.yiv4806276813MsoNormal, #yiv4806276813 li.yiv4806276813MsoNormal, #yiv4806276813 div.yiv4806276813MsoNormal {margin:0in;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;}#yiv4806276813 a:link, #yiv4806276813 span.yiv4806276813MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4806276813 span.yiv4806276813EmailStyle19 {font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;color:windowtext;}#yiv4806276813 .yiv4806276813MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered {}#yiv4806276813 div.yiv4806276813WordSection1 {}-->Hi Harold, The information about burials in Czernowitz and (what is left in) Sadagora was posted several years ago to JewishGen: https://www.jewishgen.org/databases/cemetery/ Restrict your search geographically to Romania/Bucovina to find Czernowitz and Sadagora records. If you need some assistance with your search, please let me know. Bruce Reisch Geneva, New York From:[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Harold Nissen <[email protected]> Date: Monday, March 22, 2021 at 11:26 To: [email protected] <[email protected]>, [email protected] <[email protected]>, CZERNOWITZ-L <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [czernowitz-l] New video about the history of the Czernowitz Jewish community and the Czernowitz Jewish cemetery at www.cjcro.org IS THIS A PROJECT TO LOCATE TNE BURIAL AREA OF ONES ANCESTORS WHO LIVED IN SADAGORA/CZEDNOWITZ SOME OF WHOM LEFT BEFORE 1945 OR 44 AND SOME OF WHOM LEFT AFTER AND SOME OF WHOM MAY HAVE SPENT THEIR ENTIRE LIVES THERE AND ARE BURIED IN THAT AREA. I FOUND OUT THAT MY PATERNAL GRANDFATHER ND GREAT GRANDFATHER WERE AUTHORES OF BOOKS; SOME OF MY UNCLES MAY HAVE ENDED UIN ISRAEL, I KNOW SOME OF MY ANCESTORS ARE BURIED IN THE JJEWISH CEMETARY ON A LL SIDES OF MY FAMILY' HOW TO OBTAIN INFORMATION HAROLD NISSEN 914-723-4533 -----Original Message----- From: SASHA WOLLOCH <[email protected]> To: Stephen Winters <[email protected]>; CZERNOWITZ-L History digest <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, Mar 21, 2021 10:39 pm Subject: Re: [czernowitz-l] New video about the history of the Czernowitz Jewish community and the Czernowitz Jewish cemetery at www.cjcro.org Hello Stephen, The Covid 19 situation has been very serious in Czernowitz until the middle of June and we could not find workers for a while.Starting with July we could find a crew which worked through August and September.We managed to spray with herbicides about 70% of the total surface and we also cut the vegetation for more than half the surface.We will try to start early this season provided that workers could be found early enough. Donations for the cemetery project can be made at: https://cjcro.org/donate-2/ Thank you for your support. Best, Sasha Wolloch On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 1:51 PM Stephen Winters <[email protected]> wrote: Regarding the cemetary itself, what is happening with clean up in view of covid19 Mimi used to give us updates I think an update as te of activities and how the contributions are being spent would be useful Also please remind us where to remit donations for the cemetery project Thanks to all for the hard work and thoughts Stephen Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 21, 2021, at 8:24 AM, Johannes Czakai <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Dear Mr. Wolloch, > > thank you very much for your response. I am glad we are having a conversation. > > Again, you have my deepest respect and support for your work. I think it is > amazing, I think it is inspiring, I think it is more than important. The > Jewish cemetery in Czernowitz is an extraordinary cultural and historical > landmark and every effort to conserve and to preserve it is priceless. Thank > you for that! > > I did not write my criticism lightheartedly, because I did not want to offend > anyone and I wanted to differentiate between your work and the content of the > video. And there is no doubt that I made that very clear. Therefore I am a > bit surprised and hurt by the personal and insulting tone of your response > (baklava?). I did not write - as you suggest - to show my "erudition". I > received several very positive e-mails from people who found the video > disturbing and supported my criticism. I think you and me agree on many > things and I would be happy to work together on finding our common ground. > > Although I repeat myself: As I said, I never claimed that a video like that > needs to be perfect and academically satisfying. Quite the contrary! It > should be inspiring, and Mr. Lupu's video certainly is. We all make mistakes > and that is fine. But I think we agree that there must be a sensitive > threshold of quality and this particular video crossed it. > > Mr. Lupu has certainly created a good video and I praise his skills. But what > it depicts is simply misleading. The more I think about it, it is less the > historical errors, but the imagery (I speak about the film material, not the > photos): In nine minutes we see a lot of HD footage, but only one (!) actual > shot from Czernowitz (to my knowledge only the aerial shots of the university > are from the city; if there is more I am hapy to stand corrected). The rest > is a collage of imagination, which reproduces stereotypes. Much of that is > kind of fine, because HD videos are more fun to watch than just immobile old > postcards. But when not a single other building, landscape, interior, and > most importantly even any of the gravestones were filmed in Czernowitz and > the viewer is not informed about that, this is more then problematic (again: > the film material, not the photos). Just imagine if I would produce a > documentary about the Jewish quarter in Vilnius and use primarily stock > footage from Krakow, Prague, and Stockholm. The "average viewer" would not > notice, but I find it fundamentally and ethically wrong. > > Although it is just a short video, creating it comes with a certain > responsibility. After publishing it, it serves not only your cause, but other > people will learn for the first time about Czernowitz's amazing Jewish past. > They should not learn mistakes and see images of a fictional and pieced > together city that never existed. Especially in a time, when memory fades, > when historical places of worship are desecrated and turned into cinemas, and > when unique landmarks like the cemetery crumble, even short videos like that > one will raise awareness and help to remember and preserve the Jewish > community's material and immaterial legacy. And I think we agree that this > invaluable task needs to be done as thorough as possible. > > All the best, > > Johannes Czakai > PS: In order to prevent a lengthy discussion in the group, I would be happy > to further discuss the issue directly (if you like). > > -- > Johannes Czakai > Visiting Research Fellow > Franz Rosenzweig Minerva Research Center > Hebrew University Jerusalem > https://rosenzweig.huji.ac.il/people/johannes-czakai I have been virtually cruising through the streets of Czernowitz on Yandex.ru. I seem to have a problem finding Hauptstrasse #26 where my father had a jewelry store in the late 1920's. Any suggestions?Ervin Spinner ******************************************************************************* This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject of Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions expressed in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not necessarily the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com that includes a searchable archive of all messages posted to this list. To send mail to the list, address it to <[email protected]>. To remove your address from this e-list follow the directions at https://it.cornell.edu/lyris/leave-e-lists-lyris To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to: [email protected] -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
