norman wrote: > Hello, Hi Norman
Thanks for chiming in. I was just thinking 'I guess I shouldn't have tacked on that editor question.' although I can also see that the "I need a curriculum" isn't an easy thing for someone to whip up either. your post is right in the spirit of what I was looking for, and even though I don't completely agree, it has helped me define what I need to tell the teacher. > question is probably from someone in the actual target audience of dabo > - someone who just wants to use it, not to learn it. But he is clearly > making a big effort to learn. Yes and no. I plan on getting under the hood and mess with code. I haven't even started to use my own db's and all ready I am finding things I want to improve. OTOH, the class I am trying to put together will have a few people that just want to click and go. But even that falls apart when you think about the business layer: the layer that defines what your application does to solve a business problem. (assuming the problem is more than just a digital filing cabinet with no rules as to what you shove in it.) business rules need to be coded in some rich language. and this is where having a good understanding of python will be invaluable to even the most click happy user. Not to mention that there always seems to be UI and data things that need to be coded to make the application users happy. For instance, I was just asked: "can the quick-fill be driven by active items, but the validation allow inactive?" and even "can the quick-fill find the last item that matches instead of the first." It would be great if this can all be done with clicking, but I am prepared to write some code for this. not a lot, probably less than 10 lines. And that was a reasonable request. Some things are just so off the wall that I would not want something like dabo to address them. > > I enjoyed the digression into editors but editors is a developer > playground, not a users. So, one must assume from the nature of the > replies that dabo is still a long way from being a users tool. That I think it depends on what is expected. There are probably many problems that can be solved by the app wizard. I know someone who has 7 documents that are name/address lists formated to print on mailing labels. each list is a category. when they need to to a mailing to a category, they print the appropriate list. a person can be in more than one category. OTOH, knowing how to code is a good thing. > doesn't matter. So, the questioner needs to learn. The best reply that > I've seen so far is, in effect - don't. Don't learn, do. Schools and > education in general have a lot to answer for. One of the mental burdens > they laden us with is that you have to learn 10,000% of what you need to > know before you start using it. That is ridiculous. another yes/no: I don't think it is ridiculous. at least in this case. To have a well tuned class that only taught us what we needed to know, the teacher would have to spend a significant amount of time studying dabo. I would probably have to pay him for that, and I don't think that makes any sense at all - not to mention I am not sure it is even a good idea if there was no cost. I think a having a good python base will be time well spent. The 'core' python language (what you get without any INCLUDEs) is a pretty small set of commands and concepts. I am hoping that can be covered. I am guessing there are a few modules that we should touch on - like data access and gui. but just enough so we can debug things, given that dabo should be taking care of us. Just decide what it > is you want to do with dabo (and that process might make you realise it > isn't dabo you need) then just get on with it. Fire questions at the > python list, at this list. > Google for words you don't understand. The main problem is not knowing what is available. not to mention I still don't understand the difference between [1,2,3] and (1,2,3) even though I understand how to use them. These are things that google and such just cant help, or is no where near as efficient as a good instructor. Write > code. You clearly do not have that great enemy of learning, being too > proud to admit one doesn't know. I got over that my first year in college. went in feeling like I knew 90% of what I needed to know to be a programmer, came out feeling like I was at about 10%. I am back to 90, but only if I discount the need to learn new things, which breaks the problem. > > On a Filemaker list I follow someone asked for an explanation of a self > relationship. I had not long done this myself and I told him the only > way to know what a self relationship is is just to create one and keep > trying till you get it. In general to learn, you have to either be able > to create a mental image of what you need to know, which means you are > three parts there already, or you just have to get on with it until that > model forms. I agree with this, but there is more. part of what defines 'need to know' is "how complex of a problem do you want to solve, and how elegant do you want the solution to be?" > > Enough of sounding of that a poor man's Jean-Jacques Rousseau. Hopefully > the post I am responding to will be the beginning of a users list, > Thanks again. Carl K _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: [email protected] Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-users
