On 2/12/07, johnf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > I have noticed how difficult it has been to get my head around many > parts of Dabo. Don't get me wrong! It is NOT that I think there is anything > wrong with Dabo. In fact I think what Ed and Paul have done is unique and > very powerful. It's more that I think my past experiences lead me to the > wrong conclusions with respect to programming within Dabo. It could also be > that I have little time to spend on learning with having to feed my family > and all. > > As many of you know I have been programming for twenty years. I have only > used a few languages (C, C++, Pascal and VFP). For the last 15 years I have > used only VFP and a little Pascal. Like Paul, I went in search of a > replacement for VFP. I found Python which I thought was very readable. But > what I didn't understand was how to use the language. I have read several > books on Python which tell you about the syntax and few simple solutions to > programming problems. But in no way do they help with what is happening in > Dabo. I think I'm not alone. >
Dabo is essentially a library so I wouldn't expect knowing Python syntax to help out with knowing what functions to call. However, knowing Python is essential to writing Dabo applications, especially when writing a backend. > The thinking in Dabo is very different from VFP. I don't say that lightly. > I'm not talking about syntax - but about thinking! For example I have never > heard of "Mix-ins". For those of you who haven't heard of "Mix-ins" a great > article is at http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/4540. I'm sure it could > be done in VFP but I don't recall anybody doing it or calling it a Mix-in. I > guess using VFP just didn't require that I discover how to create "Mix-ins". > And where in the books was I to read about this python idiom and (more > importantly) how they work and what they provide. Wrong books - maybe. So > because of the available idioms of python - someone designed a "Mix-in". I > don't believe in my wildest of dreams that I would have considered creating a > Mix-in. But now I have to understand them. Don't know what the VFP thinking is. However, Mix-ins are just multiple inheritence. You should have been exposed to this in C++. On another note, why is this relevant for the average user? They just need to use Dabo and not peer under the hood. > > What has been really strange is I have been able to still use Dabo and add to > Dabo. In fact I added Postgres support. I did this by doing not reading. > Oh, for sure I copied and read other's code. But instead of reading how to > do something I just reviewed the actual results of my actions. I kept > thinking I'll understand how the code works and use the knowledge to write my > programs. But I have to admit it has been slow in coming. > > Now I have created a lookup dialog form that works (at least so far). That > was like pulling teeth. I first started with a form generated from the > ClassDesigner as a proof of the concept. Then I created a Class to get it > done. That's when I really started to learn. It has taken several days for > me to get the class to work correctly. I'm sure some of what I posted on > the mailing list points to my lack of understanding and knowledge. Paul > would say but did you check the API doc's. I did Paul and to be truthful I > got little from them (more later). Ed would say what about the demo's. They > helped a little. They are either way to simple or don't address what I was > looking for - normally that is something very simple. Ed's screencast were > very helpful and of course the list is also. But in the end it was a fight. > > The biggest problem for me was determining what functions, properties, and > attributes was available for any object. That is where Dabo's API should have > helped. But I found them confusing and lacking examples. Also like a > dictionary you have to know how to spell the word - you have to know what you > are looking for. So for me a combination of reading code, reading > tracebacks, demo's, and dabo's API worked. What do you expect from an OS project that is still under development? I think that Dabo is one of the better documented OS projects. I know that the lack of documentation is frustrating. However, I will say that it will get better... > > I don't think I'm alone here. For example when I asked a dabo developer (not > Ed or Paul) who has provided some major changes to Dabo how to call a form > using a cdxml file he responded that he didn't have a clue. When I ask > another developer how to use datasets I got a similar answer - although there > is a nice write up on the wiki. This is NOT a negative statement about > either developer. It just reflects the situation Dabo is in - lots of power > little in the way of teaching tools. I think that Dabo is so feature rich that there will be need for a lot of documentation, samples, tutorials, and the like. For now, it seems like a lot of people are using the framework in different ways. Hopefully the questions will keep on coming and we can provide write ups for them on the wiki. > > I for one will from this day forward will add much as possible to the wiki to > help others. I hope all of you will start helping too. > To answer your origanal question, learning by doing is probably the best way to learn dabo. Maybe take one of the demo apps, run it to see what it looks like an try to code it yourself? Then compare the code you wrote with the demo code. I know that I learned Python programming and the Dabo framework mostly by coding stuff. > -- > John Fabiani > > _______________________________________________ > Post Messages to: [email protected] > Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-users > _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: [email protected] Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/dabo-users
