x-mailing-list: [email protected]
(Please include header and footer when redistributing this material.)
_________________________________________________________________
THE DAFYOMI DISCUSSION LIST
brought to you by Kollel Iyun Hadaf of Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
[email protected]
[REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE TO DISCUSS THE DAF WITH THE KOLLEL]
________________________________________________________________
Berachos 025: Keri'as Shema with Vasikin
Yehuda Neuberger asked:
>>Firstly thanks for the amazing site, really helpful.
Is there an inyan to read Shema at Vasikin without Shemona Esrey after?
I always thought not, as the Gemorah on 9b clearly seems to set out that
the point of it is in order to DAVEN at the optimal time. However my
longheld view is being challenged by the Gemorah on 25b, where it seems
advantageous to say Shema at Vasikin. (One assumes that the gentleman did
not also daven in the Mikva!) But what is the advantage of doing so - 9b
says only for tefilla its an advantage?<<
The Kollel replies*:
>>See Rashi (9a, D"H d'Ksiv) who seems to suggest that the importance of
davening k'Vasikin comes from reciting Kerias Shema at Netz haChamah - not
from praying the Amidah then. The NETZIV (Meromei Sadei, Berochos, 22b)
says that this is also the Shitah of the BEHAG and the She'iltos, in which
case there might be good reason to recite Keri'as Shema then even if one is
not going to daven Shacharis until later.
However, on further examination of the comments of Rashi there, it seems
that the real focus is the Shemoneh Esreh and not Keri'as Shema. For
example, the end of the Pasuk - "Yira'ucha Im Shemesh" - which is the
source for davening k'Vasikin - says "Lifnei Yare'ach Dor Dorim" which
according to Rashi is referring to davening the Shemoneh Esreh of Minchah
just before sunset. This suggests that the beginning of the Pasuk is also
referring to Shemoneh Esreh. The Rambam says explicitly in Perush
ha'Mishnayos (Mishnah on Daf 22b) that the point of reciting Keri'as Shema
before Netz is in order to Daven Shemoneh Esreh at Netz.
Regarding your question on the Gemara on Daf 25b: how is one to daven
Shemoneh Esreh in the water in the case where he had to recite Keri'as
Shema in the water? The Netziv says that the Mishnah works out well
according to the BEHAG. But what about according to the Rambam and -
probably - Rashi?
The Gemara there asks, "How can he recite Keri'as Shema if his chest is in
plain view of his Ervah?" See the Biur ha'Gra (OC, 74:2) who asks why the
Gemara doesn't answer its question by saying that the person's chest is out
of the water? The Vilna Gaon answers that the Gemara is speaking about a
case where the person is also going to Daven Shemoneh Esreh, and therefore
his chest needs to be covered as well. So, in fact, the person is davening
in the Mikveh!<<
---
Ori Rackovsky comments:
Dear Rav Sigler,
I realize this is quite late and the kollel is dealing with different
matters now, I happen to be osek in mesechta brachos and came across this
letter and your excellent response. I just wanted to add that Rabbeinu
Yona's shita is far more explicit regarding the inyan of Kriyas shma samuch
lenetz as being a mitzvah lechatchila independent of the need to say
shmoneh esreh immediately at hanetz hachama. See Rabbeinu yona's extensive
disucssion in dapei haRif 4b and 5a. He brings as a proof the gemara
brachos 25b, and says that certainly he was not going to be davening shmona
esrei in the mikvah (against shitas hagra). He uses the pasuk of yiraucha
im shemesh as his makor. (Also interesting to note his discussion of the
Rif's need to explain how to time tfilas vasikin and R' Akiva Eigers
rejection of R' Yona's shita).
Many thanks for your excellent work and warm regards,
Ori Rackovsky
New York, NY
----------------------------------------------
The Kollel replies:
Thanks for the kind words and very relevant comments.
Kol Tuv,
Yonasan Sigler
>>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<<
The *D*AFYOMI *A*DVANCEMENT *F*ORUM, brought to you by Kollel Iyun Hadaf
Write to us at [email protected] or visit us at http://www.dafyomi.co.il
Tel/Fax(US): 646-820-3315; Fax(Isr): (02) 591-6024; Tel(Isr): (02) 651-5004
_______________________________________________
Daf-discuss mailing list
[email protected]
http://mail.shemayisrael.co.il/mailman/listinfo/daf-discuss_shemayisrael.co.il
