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THE DAFYOMI DISCUSSION LIST
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Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Sanhedrin 035: Rebbi Yosi's opinion with regard to Mechabeh
M. Reinitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> asked:
1) Rabbi Yosi says there is no 'Mee-sah' for making a fire.
Would it be the same for 'extinguishing a fire'. From Shabbos 29b (the
bottom mishna) it would seem that he is 'poh-ter' (excludes) 'extinguishing
a fire' because it's not 'tzree-chuh l'goofuh', except when he makes ashes.
It sounds that 'extinguishing a fire' can be more than a 'lav', but be an
actual 'chiyuv'. Isn't that funny though to divide 'lighting a fire' and
'extinguishing a fire'.
2) According to Rabbi Yossi is lighting fire make someone a 'mchallel
Shabbos' with all that goes with that? Or is it different.
Thank you and tizku l'mitzvos.
M. Reinitz, brooklyn ny
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The Kollel replies:
1) TOSFOS YESHANIM (printed on the side of the Vilna Gemara) in Shabbos 29b
brings your proof that Rebbi Yosi differentiates between Hav'arah and
Kivuy. He brings even more explicit proof from a Gemara in Kerisus (top of
20b) which makes that distinction. (Even though Mechabeh is Chayav only
when it is "Al Menas l'Hav'ir," this does not mean that Mav'ir must be a
Melachah in its own right. Rather, "Al Menas l'Hav'ir" shows that the the
Melachah was a "Tikun" and not a "Kilkul.")
The logic for this distinction might be that in Hav'arah, the subject of
the Melachah is the *fire*: a fire was created. Since nothing physical has
changed (i.e. a fire is energy and not matter), Rebbi Yosi maintains that
it is not considered a creative act of "Melachah" on Shabbos. In Mechabeh,
however, the object of the Kivuy is not the fire, since there was no Tikun
in the fire. Rather, the Tikun was in the *wick* (which is now easier to
relight), and a wick is a physical object.
2) The Gemara in Pesachim 5b explains that according to Rebbi Yosi,
lighting a fire is not considered an "Av Melachah" on Shabbos. Tosfos there
explains that according to Rebbi Yosi it would not be Asur on Yom Tov for
this reason.
The PRI MEGADIM (Pesichah of Hilchos Shabbos, DH Gam Techumim, DH
Nistapakti Ha) writes that one who transgresses a Lav or Aseh of Shabbos
(other than the Lav of Techumim), such as the Lav of Mechamer or the Aseh
of Kidush ha'Yom, should not become a "Mumar l'Chol ha'Torah." The same
should apply to Hav'arah according to Rebbi Yosi.
M. Kornfeld
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