Hi John, I am still smiling after last night successful build :)
I have the following configurations available: - 10.6 64-bit, Intel - 10.6 32-bit Intel - 10.5, Intel - 10.4, PPC, if I remember correctly, perhaps it is a 10.5 Different Perls versions can be installed if need be. jonasbn On 18/11/2009, at 14.23, John Scoles wrote: > > I call that little in when my next candidate release of DBD::Oracle needs > some testing for Mac > > cheers > John > Jonas Brømsø Nielsen wrote: >> Hi Steve and John and other dbi-users, >> >> I owe you guys beer or something. >> I just went through everything again and then it struck me. I never enabled >> 64-bit on this machine. So I did, rebooted and now it seems to work. >> >> I am looking into writing this up for possible inclusion in the >> README.macosx.txt. >> >> Thanks for your patience, your support kept me going, remind me if we meet >> at some Perl conference or similar. >> >> If you need me to provide you with specifics or do any sort of tests please >> let me now. >> >> Take care and thanks, >> >> jonasbn >> >> On 17/11/2009, at 21.46, Steve Baldwin wrote: >> >> >>> Yes, I'm pretty sure that is the only change I made. I know it >>> doesn't make sense but I found a blog somewhere that recommended it so >>> I tried it and it worked (for me). I guess whatever nmedit is >>> intended to do in the makefile is either not that important, or not >>> relevant for OS/X. >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 7:34 AM, Jonas Brømsø Nielsen <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Steve, >>>> >>>> I tried it out, but no significant change, apart from the symbols not >>>> being listed (see the bottom) >>>> >>>> This is yours: >>>> >>>> bash-3.2# grep NM Makefile >>>> NMEDIT = echo >>>> $(NMEDIT) -R ./hints/macos_bundle.syms $(INST_DYNAMIC) || true >>>> >>>> My grep: >>>> >>>> ; grep NM Makefile >>>> 505:NMEDIT = nmedit >>>> 520: $(NMEDIT) -R ./hints/macos_bundle.syms $(INST_DYNAMIC) || true >>>> >>>> So if I change line 505 to: >>>> >>>> NMEDIT = echo >>>> >>>> line 520 will be interpolated to: >>>> >>>> echo -R ./hints/macos_bundle.syms $(INST_DYNAMIC) || true >>>> >>>> which does not really make sense in my book, did you make additional >>>> changes? >>>> >>>> jonasbn >>>> >>>> ### >>>> nmedit -R ./hints/macos_bundle.syms >>>> blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.bundle || true >>>> nmedit: symbols names listed in: ./hints/macos_bundle.syms not in: >>>> /Users/jonasbn/Downloads/Folx/DBD-Oracle-1.23/blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.bundle >>>> (for architecture x86_64) >>>> _kpuach >>>> _kpuasav >>>> _kpucer >>>> _kpudbcx >>>> _kpudc >>>> _kpudcx >>>> _kpuddb >>>> _kpudex >>>> _kpudsc >>>> _kpuexes >>>> _kpugbccx >>>> _kpugbncx >>>> _kpugc >>>> _kpugdcx >>>> _kpugml >>>> _kpuic >>>> _kpuicx >>>> _kpulsc >>>> _kpumcf >>>> _kpusdl >>>> _kpusdt >>>> _kpusnchr >>>> _kpusvar >>>> _main >>>> nmedit: symbols names listed in: ./hints/macos_bundle.syms not in: >>>> /Users/jonasbn/Downloads/Folx/DBD-Oracle-1.23/blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.bundle >>>> (for architecture i386) >>>> _kpuach >>>> _kpuasav >>>> _kpucer >>>> _kpudbcx >>>> _kpudc >>>> _kpudcx >>>> _kpuddb >>>> _kpudex >>>> _kpudsc >>>> _kpuexes >>>> _kpugbccx >>>> _kpugbncx >>>> _kpugc >>>> _kpugdcx >>>> _kpugml >>>> _kpuic >>>> _kpuicx >>>> _kpulsc >>>> _kpumcf >>>> _kpusdl >>>> _kpusdt >>>> _kpusnchr >>>> _kpusvar >>>> _main >>>> nmedit: symbols names listed in: ./hints/macos_bundle.syms not in: >>>> /Users/jonasbn/Downloads/Folx/DBD-Oracle-1.23/blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.bundle >>>> (for architecture ppc7400) >>>> _kpuach >>>> _kpuasav >>>> _kpucer >>>> _kpudbcx >>>> _kpudc >>>> _kpudcx >>>> _kpuddb >>>> _kpudex >>>> _kpudsc >>>> _kpuexes >>>> _kpugbccx >>>> _kpugbncx >>>> _kpugc >>>> _kpugdcx >>>> _kpugml >>>> _kpuic >>>> _kpuicx >>>> _kpulsc >>>> _kpumcf >>>> _kpusdl >>>> _kpusdt >>>> _kpusnchr >>>> _kpusvar >>>> _main >>>> >>>> >>>> On 17/11/2009, at 21.20, Steve Baldwin wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Did you do the 'change NMEDIT' step as per my prev email? I couldn't >>>>> get it to build without doing that. >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 7:07 AM, Jonas Brømsø Nielsen <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi John, >>>>>> >>>>>> Here you go, >>>>>> >>>>>> ############################### >>>>>> From the generation of the Makefile: >>>>>> ############################### >>>>>> >>>>>> sonic ~/Downloads/Folx/DBD-Oracle-1.23 >>>>>> ; perl Makefile.PL >>>>>> Multiple copies of Driver.xst found in: >>>>>> /Library/Perl/5.10.0/darwin-thread-multi-2level/auto/DBI/ >>>>>> /System/Library/Perl/Extras/5.10.0/darwin-thread-multi-2level/auto/DBI/ >>>>>> at Makefile.PL line 37 >>>>>> Using DBI 1.609 (for perl 5.010000 on darwin-thread-multi-2level) >>>>>> installed in /Library/Perl/5.10.0/darwin-thread-multi-2level/auto/DBI/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Configuring DBD::Oracle for perl 5.010000 on darwin >>>>>> (darwin-thread-multi-2level) >>>>>> >>>>>> Remember to actually *READ* the README file! Especially if you have any >>>>>> problems. >>>>>> >>>>>> Installing on a darwin, Ver#10.0 >>>>>> Using Oracle in /Applications/instantclient >>>>>> DEFINE _SQLPLUS_RELEASE = "1002000400" (CHAR) >>>>>> Oracle version 10.2.0.4 (10.2) >>>>>> Looks like an Instant Client installation, okay >>>>>> Your DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH env var is set to >>>>>> '/Library/Frameworks:/System/Library/Perl/darwin/CORE:/Applications/instantclient' >>>>>> Oracle sysliblist: >>>>>> Found header files in /Applications/instantclient/sdk/include. >>>>>> >>>>>> Checking for functioning wait.ph >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> System: perl5.010000 darwin neige.apple.com 10.0 darwin kernel version >>>>>> 10.0.0d8: tue may 5 19:29:59 pdt 2009; root:xnu-1437.2~2release_i386 i386 >>>>>> Compiler: gcc-4.2 -Os -arch x86_64 -arch i386 -arch ppc -g -pipe >>>>>> -fno-common -DPERL_DARWIN -fno-strict-aliasing -I/usr/local/include >>>>>> Linker: /usr/bin/ld >>>>>> Sysliblist: >>>>>> Linking with -lclntsh. >>>>>> >>>>>> LD_RUN_PATH=/Applications/instantclient >>>>>> Using DBD::Oracle 1.23. >>>>>> Using DBD::Oracle 1.23. >>>>>> Multiple copies of Driver.xst found in: >>>>>> /Library/Perl/5.10.0/darwin-thread-multi-2level/auto/DBI/ >>>>>> /System/Library/Perl/Extras/5.10.0/darwin-thread-multi-2level/auto/DBI/ >>>>>> at Makefile.PL line 1696 >>>>>> Using DBI 1.609 (for perl 5.010000 on darwin-thread-multi-2level) >>>>>> installed in /Library/Perl/5.10.0/darwin-thread-multi-2level/auto/DBI/ >>>>>> Writing Makefile for DBD::Oracle >>>>>> >>>>>> *** If you have problems... >>>>>> read all the log printed above, and the README and README.help.txt >>>>>> files. >>>>>> (Of course, you have read README by now anyway, haven't you?) >>>>>> >>>>>> sonic ~/Downloads/Folx/DBD-Oracle-1.23 >>>>>> >>>>>> ############################### >>>>>> Make >>>>>> ############################### >>>>>> >>>>>> sonic ~/Downloads/Folx/DBD-Oracle-1.23 >>>>>> ; make >>>>>> cp Oracle.pm blib/lib/DBD/Oracle.pm >>>>>> cp oraperl.ph blib/lib/oraperl.ph >>>>>> cp dbdimp.h blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/dbdimp.h >>>>>> cp ocitrace.h blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/ocitrace.h >>>>>> cp Oraperl.pm blib/lib/Oraperl.pm >>>>>> cp Oracle.h blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.h >>>>>> cp lib/DBD/Oracle/Object.pm blib/lib/DBD/Oracle/Object.pm >>>>>> cp mk.pm blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/mk.pm >>>>>> cp lib/DBD/Oracle/GetInfo.pm blib/lib/DBD/Oracle/GetInfo.pm >>>>>> /usr/bin/perl -p -e "s/~DRIVER~/Oracle/g" >>>>>> /Library/Perl/5.10.0/darwin-thread-multi-2level/auto/DBI/Driver.xst > >>>>>> Oracle.xsi >>>>>> /usr/bin/perl /System/Library/Perl/5.10.0/ExtUtils/xsubpp -typemap >>>>>> /System/Library/Perl/5.10.0/ExtUtils/typemap -typemap typemap Oracle.xs >>>>>> > Oracle.xsc && mv Oracle.xsc Oracle.c >>>>>> gcc-4.2 -c -I/Applications/instantclient/sdk/include >>>>>> -I/Library/Perl/5.10.0/darwin-thread-multi-2level/auto/DBI -arch x86_64 >>>>>> -arch i386 -arch ppc -g -pipe -fno-common -DPERL_DARWIN >>>>>> -fno-strict-aliasing -I/usr/local/include -Os -DVERSION=\"1.23\" >>>>>> -DXS_VERSION=\"1.23\" >>>>>> "-I/System/Library/Perl/5.10.0/darwin-thread-multi-2level/CORE" -Wall >>>>>> -Wno-comment -DUTF8_SUPPORT -DNEW_OCI_INIT >>>>>> -DORA_OCI_VERSION=\"10.2.0.4\" Oracle.c >>>>>> gcc-4.2 -c -I/Applications/instantclient/sdk/include >>>>>> -I/Library/Perl/5.10.0/darwin-thread-multi-2level/auto/DBI -arch x86_64 >>>>>> -arch i386 -arch ppc -g -pipe -fno-common -DPERL_DARWIN >>>>>> -fno-strict-aliasing -I/usr/local/include -Os -DVERSION=\"1.23\" >>>>>> -DXS_VERSION=\"1.23\" >>>>>> "-I/System/Library/Perl/5.10.0/darwin-thread-multi-2level/CORE" -Wall >>>>>> -Wno-comment -DUTF8_SUPPORT -DNEW_OCI_INIT >>>>>> -DORA_OCI_VERSION=\"10.2.0.4\" dbdimp.c >>>>>> dbdimp.c: In function 'fb_ary_cb_alloc': >>>>>> dbdimp.c:294: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:295: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:296: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:297: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:298: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:299: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c: In function 'fb_ary_alloc': >>>>>> dbdimp.c:314: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:315: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:316: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:317: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:318: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c: In function 'ora_db_login6': >>>>>> dbdimp.c:541: warning: format '%d' expects type 'int', but argument 8 >>>>>> has type 'size_t' >>>>>> dbdimp.c:548: warning: format '%d' expects type 'int', but argument 8 >>>>>> has type 'size_t' >>>>>> dbdimp.c: In function 'fb_ary_cb_alloc': >>>>>> dbdimp.c:294: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:295: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:296: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:297: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:298: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:299: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c: In function 'fb_ary_alloc': >>>>>> dbdimp.c:314: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:315: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:316: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:317: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:318: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c: In function 'ora_db_login6': >>>>>> dbdimp.c:541: warning: format '%d' expects type 'int', but argument 8 >>>>>> has type 'size_t' >>>>>> dbdimp.c:548: warning: format '%d' expects type 'int', but argument 8 >>>>>> has type 'size_t' >>>>>> dbdimp.c: In function 'fb_ary_cb_alloc': >>>>>> dbdimp.c:294: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:295: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:296: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:297: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:298: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:299: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c: In function 'fb_ary_alloc': >>>>>> dbdimp.c:314: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:315: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:316: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:317: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c:318: warning: format not a string literal and no format >>>>>> arguments >>>>>> dbdimp.c: In function 'ora_db_login6': >>>>>> dbdimp.c:541: warning: format '%d' expects type 'int', but argument 8 >>>>>> has type 'size_t' >>>>>> dbdimp.c:548: warning: format '%d' expects type 'int', but argument 8 >>>>>> has type 'size_t' >>>>>> gcc-4.2 -c -I/Applications/instantclient/sdk/include >>>>>> -I/Library/Perl/5.10.0/darwin-thread-multi-2level/auto/DBI -arch x86_64 >>>>>> -arch i386 -arch ppc -g -pipe -fno-common -DPERL_DARWIN >>>>>> -fno-strict-aliasing -I/usr/local/include -Os -DVERSION=\"1.23\" >>>>>> -DXS_VERSION=\"1.23\" >>>>>> "-I/System/Library/Perl/5.10.0/darwin-thread-multi-2level/CORE" -Wall >>>>>> -Wno-comment -DUTF8_SUPPORT -DNEW_OCI_INIT >>>>>> -DORA_OCI_VERSION=\"10.2.0.4\" oci8.c >>>>>> oci8.c: In function 'ora_blob_read_mb_piece': >>>>>> oci8.c:1235: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c: In function 'get_object': >>>>>> oci8.c:1843: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c: In function 'describe_obj_by_tdo': >>>>>> oci8.c:2481: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c:2526: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c:2562: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c: In function 'ora_describe': >>>>>> oci8.c:2680: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c:3059: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c: In function 'init_lob_refetch': >>>>>> oci8.c:3628: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c: In function 'ora_blob_read_mb_piece': >>>>>> oci8.c:1235: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c: In function 'get_object': >>>>>> oci8.c:1843: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c: In function 'describe_obj_by_tdo': >>>>>> oci8.c:2481: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c:2526: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c:2562: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c: In function 'ora_describe': >>>>>> oci8.c:2680: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c:3059: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c: In function 'init_lob_refetch': >>>>>> oci8.c:3628: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c:3754: warning: format '%d' expects type 'int', but argument 3 has >>>>>> type 'long int' >>>>>> oci8.c: In function 'ora_blob_read_mb_piece': >>>>>> oci8.c:1235: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c: In function 'get_object': >>>>>> oci8.c:1843: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c: In function 'describe_obj_by_tdo': >>>>>> oci8.c:2481: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c:2526: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c:2562: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c: In function 'ora_describe': >>>>>> oci8.c:2680: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c:3059: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c: In function 'init_lob_refetch': >>>>>> oci8.c:3628: warning: format not a string literal and no format arguments >>>>>> oci8.c:3754: warning: format '%d' expects type 'int', but argument 3 has >>>>>> type 'long int' >>>>>> Running Mkbootstrap for DBD::Oracle () >>>>>> chmod 644 Oracle.bs >>>>>> rm -f blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.bundle >>>>>> LD_RUN_PATH="/Applications/instantclient" gcc-4.2 >>>>>> -mmacosx-version-min=10.6 -arch x86_64 -arch i386 -arch ppc -bundle >>>>>> -undefined dynamic_lookup -L/usr/local/lib Oracle.o dbdimp.o oci8.o -o >>>>>> blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.bundle \ >>>>>> -L/Applications/instantclient -lclntsh \ >>>>>> >>>>>> ld: warning: in /Applications/instantclient/libclntsh.dylib, file is not >>>>>> of required architecture >>>>>> ld: warning: in /Applications/instantclient/libclntsh.dylib, file is not >>>>>> of required architecture >>>>>> chmod 755 blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.bundle >>>>>> nmedit -R ./hints/macos_bundle.syms >>>>>> blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.bundle || true >>>>>> nmedit: symbols names listed in: ./hints/macos_bundle.syms not in: >>>>>> /Users/jonasbn/Downloads/Folx/DBD-Oracle-1.23/blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.bundle >>>>>> (for architecture x86_64) >>>>>> _kpuach >>>>>> _kpuasav >>>>>> _kpucer >>>>>> _kpudbcx >>>>>> _kpudc >>>>>> _kpudcx >>>>>> _kpuddb >>>>>> _kpudex >>>>>> _kpudsc >>>>>> _kpuexes >>>>>> _kpugbccx >>>>>> _kpugbncx >>>>>> _kpugc >>>>>> _kpugdcx >>>>>> _kpugml >>>>>> _kpuic >>>>>> _kpuicx >>>>>> _kpulsc >>>>>> _kpumcf >>>>>> _kpusdl >>>>>> _kpusdt >>>>>> _kpusnchr >>>>>> _kpusvar >>>>>> _main >>>>>> nmedit: symbols names listed in: ./hints/macos_bundle.syms not in: >>>>>> /Users/jonasbn/Downloads/Folx/DBD-Oracle-1.23/blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.bundle >>>>>> (for architecture i386) >>>>>> _kpuach >>>>>> _kpuasav >>>>>> _kpucer >>>>>> _kpudbcx >>>>>> _kpudc >>>>>> _kpudcx >>>>>> _kpuddb >>>>>> _kpudex >>>>>> _kpudsc >>>>>> _kpuexes >>>>>> _kpugbccx >>>>>> _kpugbncx >>>>>> _kpugc >>>>>> _kpugdcx >>>>>> _kpugml >>>>>> _kpuic >>>>>> _kpuicx >>>>>> _kpulsc >>>>>> _kpumcf >>>>>> _kpusdl >>>>>> _kpusdt >>>>>> _kpusnchr >>>>>> _kpusvar >>>>>> _main >>>>>> nmedit: symbols names listed in: ./hints/macos_bundle.syms not in: >>>>>> /Users/jonasbn/Downloads/Folx/DBD-Oracle-1.23/blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.bundle >>>>>> (for architecture ppc7400) >>>>>> _kpuach >>>>>> _kpuasav >>>>>> _kpucer >>>>>> _kpudbcx >>>>>> _kpudc >>>>>> _kpudcx >>>>>> _kpuddb >>>>>> _kpudex >>>>>> _kpudsc >>>>>> _kpuexes >>>>>> _kpugbccx >>>>>> _kpugbncx >>>>>> _kpugc >>>>>> _kpugdcx >>>>>> _kpugml >>>>>> _kpuic >>>>>> _kpuicx >>>>>> _kpulsc >>>>>> _kpumcf >>>>>> _kpusdl >>>>>> _kpusdt >>>>>> _kpusnchr >>>>>> _kpusvar >>>>>> _main >>>>>> cp Oracle.bs blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.bs >>>>>> chmod 644 blib/arch/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.bs >>>>>> /usr/bin/perl "-Iblib/arch" "-Iblib/lib" ora_explain.PL ora_explain >>>>>> Extracted ora_explain from ora_explain.PL with variable substitutions. >>>>>> cp ora_explain blib/script/ora_explain >>>>>> /usr/bin/perl -MExtUtils::MY -e 'MY->fixin(shift)' -- >>>>>> blib/script/ora_explain >>>>>> Manifying blib/man1/ora_explain.1 >>>>>> Manifying blib/man3/DBD::Oracle.3pm >>>>>> Manifying blib/man3/DBD::Oraperl.3pm >>>>>> sonic ~/Downloads/Folx/DBD-Oracle-1.23 >>>>>> ; >>>>>> >>>>>> jonasbn >>>>>> >>>>>> On 17/11/2009, at 20.53, John Scoles wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> <snip> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>
