[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Christopher Laco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 07/26/2008 07:16:48 PM:
Dagfinn Ilmari Mannsåker wrote:
Jess Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Long old thread but, feel like adding 2cents..
On Tue, 8 Jul 2008, Christopher H. Laco wrote:
No: perl -MMySchema -e 'MySchema->connect(...)->deploy' does not
count
as user friendly.
[?]
Also I'm a bit surprised at this moaning, you know the drill.. If
someone alerady wanted these, they'd be written by now, so I guess
you're the only one that felt this way so far.. go do something about
it.
You mean a command like "dbicdeploy"? Yeah, shame it doesn't exist,
somebody really should write something like that. Oh, wait, someone
did:
<http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?dbicdeploy>.
jrockway++
Yeah, in another dist. How friendly. Like I said before, this is not a
personal attack on anyone here. I do use Perl as my first language.
But this attitude is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. It's offputting and
completely in denial that a lot of cat/dbic shit could be a hell of a
lot easier compaired to other Frameworks.
The attitude could be softened a bit, I agree. but the answer is really
valid. Cat is a framework, it is not intended for end users;
Hmmm.
http://www.rubyonrails.org/
"Rails is a full-stack framework"
http://cakephp.org/
"CakePHP is a rapid development framework"
http://www.djangoproject.com/
"Django is a high-level Python Web framework"
Yup. All frameworks. All not meant for end users, yet they manage to
make things a lot easier for the new user, or the people trying to
figure out which framework to go with.
it is
intended for developers. If you are writing a app with Cat and you need to
have an installer or test -> prod transition toolchain I think most
developers would write a wrapper script that works for their environment
and does a bit more than deploy(). If you are publishing an app and need
an installer kit, same deal. There is more to do then run a generic db
deploy script. If you are a developer and just want to deploy, 'perl
-MMySchema -e 'MySchema->connect(...)->deploy'' seems easy enough for a
perl developer. I guess I am wondering what usage senerio you are trying
to fix with the deploy command line?
-Wade
Not everyone, esp when trying to decide on what framework to use, is
going to get perl -M -e and being an uber perl master from day one.
Here's the usage scenarios I'm trying to fix:
> cake schema run create
> manage.py syncdb
> rake db:migrate
Things like deploy/upgrade are a lot easier and more obvious in other
frameworks. Yes, DBIC isn't Catalyst, but Cat Tuts push DBIC. It is the
defacto ORM.
We talk about things like C:Model::DBIC, yet if you want to use things
like CatX::CRUD, they're not compatible models..forcing the user to
abandon one path for another. This is compared to other offerings that
just make shit happen for the user form the start.
I understand people want choice. I understand the Perl community likes
TIMTOWTDI. I understand people/dists/groups not wanting to force
decisions on users.
But from the perspective of looking at what's out there and having to
make decisions on which project to do with, Cat+DBIC are really turning
into something that is the least user friendly of all of them.
>>> You mean a command like "dbicdeploy"? Yeah, shame it doesn't exist,
>>> somebody really should write something like that. Oh, wait, someone
> did:
is not an appropriate answer for a new user or Catalyst or DBIC. It's an
attitude. Why isn't that part of dbicadmin? Why doesn't Cat roll that
into script/? Why doesn't a fresh Cat app automatically create
MyApp::Schema, or at least make it easiser to do so?
Look, I think DBIC and Cat are awesome things (God Bless Chained), but
they're far from new-user friendly and they could use a substantial
amount of glue and gloss to fill in the holes. The real question is
whether that can happen, or we get mired in debate about 'they can just
download 5 other things to do the same thing'
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