On 6/5/08, Christopher Browne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Lennart Sorensen > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 05, 2008 at 04:48:48PM +0200, Heikki Levanto wrote: > >> Sorry if I over react, but I am a bit allergic to anyone claiming something > >> is "fundamentally the wrong way to do" almost anything. I guess most of the > >> ways have their justifications for some situations. > > > > It's inefficient, and the vast majority of arguments for the design are > > incorrect since it doesn't actually accomplish what people claim it is > > supposed to accomplish. You end up with less well tested software, > > (due to lots of variation in configurations and compile options), lots > > of potential for bugs (due to people playing with compiler options they > > don't understand), and the rather vocal (although probable minority of) > > users who believe that because they compiled it themselves on their CPU > > it must automatically run faster than if someone else compiled it for > > the same CPU. > > > > I am an opinionated bastard (although I believe I have valid reasons for > > my opinions) and I think gentoo is a stupid waste of time with zero > > purpose for existing and all you learn from it is how much time you can > > waste compiling software, and you only learn that lesson when you stop > > using gentoo. Everything else you could have learned quicker and better > > using something like Debian if you really had an interest in learning > > how to mange compilation and optimization of software and the overall > > system. I imagine most gentoo users will think I am wrong, at least > > until the day they move on and realize their mistake. > > In my (also opinionated!) view, what would have been the Real Better > Thing would be if Slackware (which always had some affinity for > BSD-like approaches to things such as init) had, instead of staying > with Patrick Volkerding managing packages as a proprietor (he is > dubbed, after all, the "Slackware Benevolent Dictator for Life"), > adopted, DIRECTLY, the BSD Ports mechanism for managing packages. > > Had that happened, then those with an affinity for building from > source would have The Same System that is being managed (quite > competently) by the BSD folk, and, in my (opinionated!) view, > Slackware would be of MUCH more significant public interest today, as > its upgrade and deployment mechanisms would have progressed along with > BSD, and provided a much better bridge between the communities. > > In that context, there would have been no need for Gentoo to emerge at all. > > Note that I haven't said anything about "recompiling everything > everywhere all the time;" note that Ports happily lives alongside > pkg_add, which allows deploying binary packages too. (Which I believe > get built using Ports.) > > >> I learned a lot from the year I installed and run Gentoo on my desktop. > >> That > >> experience was the direct cause that I dared to to a Debian install over > >> the > >> net, with not much help from the local people... Just stick in a CD (I > >> think > >> it wasn't even Debian, possibly Knoppix), enable me to ssh in, and I took > >> it > >> from there. Bit scary to tell it to reboot, but it did come up, and was a > >> functional system... I guess a Debian wizard would have done it with just > >> Debian background, but walking through the Gentoo installation was a good > >> learning experience. (and maintaining the system for a while too, although > >> that was what convinced me to switch back to Debian). > > > > I learned a lot moving to Debian about how to do things right (or at > > least better than any other system I have used). > > I learned quite a bit the time I upgraded Slackware from a.out to ELF.
Me too I learn to use Debian (dselect times) ;-) > > There's a certain kind of learning that falls out of doing some > similarly intrusive system upgrade by hand; after having done that > once, somewhat badly, and finding that Slackware didn't cope with the > change terribly well, I migrated to Red Hat, which coped with that > migration better (albeit via a complete reinstall), and that was, in > effect the cause for people leaving Slackware in droves, and adopting > Red Hat in even greater quantity. > > It's not something I'd want to do by hand ever again - there are > plenty enough problems *that interest me* that I am perfectly happy to > let the "Debian aggregate consciousness" cope with many of the > problems that *don't* interest me. > > Fighting with compiler flags, the "Gentoo Ricer" thing, doesn't > interest me in the slightest... > -- > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxdistributions.html > "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and > expecting different results." -- assortedly attributed to Albert > Einstein, Benjamin Franklin, Rita Mae Brown, and Rudyard Kipling > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- Perhaps the depth of love can be calibrated by the number of different selves that are actively involved in a given relationship. Carl Sagan (Contact) Jaime Ochoa Malagón Arquitecto de Soluciones Cel: +52 (55) 1021 0774 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
